define skills

[Ipmia]

like title says.

so for some of you skill is about reflex, for other is about using the right skill at the right time , for other again its about getting the right setup, building you char in order to get a hedge over you r opponent.



what's your opinion ?

[Moriko]

In my opinion, skill is knowing what skill to use in what situation and how to move in a certain situatian

[Necrosis]

Usually in these games, the term skill is used to describe an ingame ability. Press a key and you use the skill.But putting that asside, there are two forms of gaming skills, Physical and Mental.

Physical skill refers mainly to your reflex abilities. In an RPG, there is rarely much room for this, because everything is automated and controlled through hotkeys. While there is some room for physical skill of micromanagement (an RTS term), it is generally negligable and in many cases a macro or hardware device can surpass it. It's games like FPS is where physical skills shine, the ability to aim and dodge all require either talent or practice to be good at.

Mental skill refers mainly to strategy and intelligence. In an FPS, mental skills apply to adapting to your opponents play styles, discovering his weaknesses, memorizing and utilizing the terrain, knowing what weapons and options to use in a given situation, etc. There is alot of room in RPG's for mental skill as it incorporates all forms of tactics. Doesnt matter if how automated the combat system is, you are still required to decide on what to attack and what to avoid and to run or kite or whatever else may be involved. PvP wise, knowing when to fight and when to run is the difference between living and dying, but it's the large scale pvp when things take on a whole new perspective.

When doing, lets say, Guild vs Guild style PvP, think of every single player is as a unit. There are lots of points where skill mental skill applies from the tactics you decide to employ in the fight, to the way you form the groups, to the way you position your troops. Leadership is one of the most critical points, having an intelligent and strategic leader(s) capable of delivering orders and adapting to the situation is critical to the entire picture. Communication actually falls into the physical skill category, being able to type fast or being able to talk clearly is vital to giving out orders. The actual choice of choosing the medium, IE using TS is a strategic action that falls into the mental category though. Things like zerg tactics are also another form of mental skill application, it just utilizes a simpler tactic of overwhelming by numbers. Someone has to make that choice and while less leadership is needed to perform, alot more management is required to keep more people satisfied and under your command. I see people ***** about "zerg tactics" alot a bit too blindly, more like an excuse to give up, than a motivator to overcome, so I thought I'd mention it.

There is also what I call diplomacy. The ability to communicate and get along with other players is a diplomatic importance that also falls into mental skills (IE People Skills). Some game mechanims require working together with additional guilds to accomplish a common goal not possible on their own. Sure one can attempt a zerg tactic in this scenerio, but then you have the management problem. It's easier to command a guild of 100 and communicate to the leaders of a two others with 100 more under their command, than it is commanding 300 yourself. Keeping 300 happy, and even ensuring they meet your guild's quality standards becomes that much more challenging that may easily result in a lower overall quality of 300 people vs the other 300 from 3 guilds. Again, this is just one example of many I could come up with. Being able to decide when you need to work together and form things like truces and alliances is often vital, and an example of the use of diplomacy to tip the odds in your favor.

In Lineage 2 when I formed Inner Circle, I recognized that my guild alone cannot take a castle so we worked out an alliance with 3 other guilds bent on taking all 4 castles together and sharing. The game doesnt just end there, please take a look at Playing to Win's 4 page article at Sirlin.net — Your source of shocking insights on game design » Blog Archive » Playing to Win, Part 0: Why Bother?. Just as predicted, other competative guilds were forced to employ deplomacy of their own and organize against us. And then we were forced to go the next step and things kept rising to a new level nobody was expecting the game to evolve into, and trying to manage everything among such global chaos is not easy. All of this falls right into the mental skill category, it's all based around strategy and the intelligence to form and reform them.


Hopefully that helped answer your question, I tend to ramble and I dont really organize my thoughts (I'm not writing a book you know), so this is for whatever it's worth. I guess the underlying point is that while there is physical and mental skill sets in gaming, mmorpg's are mostly mentally involved. You see people claim it takes no skill to play these games, I disagree with them. But you have to either be intelligent enough to see it, or be smart enough to work with others who are (afterall, dont most people join guilds with the intention of either getting loot, surviving pvp, or getting access to content they wouldnt see otherwise?).

[Zinrae]

It's all of the above, plus battlefield awareness, game knowledge, fast thinking, positioning, teamwork and anything that will give you an edge.

[gr4vity]

Originally Posted by Necrosis

Usually in these games, the term skill is used to describe an ingame ability. Press a key and you use the skill.But putting that asside, there are two forms of gaming skills, Physical and Mental.

Physical skill refers mainly to your reflex abilities. In an RPG, there is rarely much room for this, because everything is automated and controlled through hotkeys. While there is some room for physical skill of micromanagement (an RTS term), it is generally negligable and in many cases a macro or hardware device can surpass it. It's games like FPS is where physical skills shine, the ability to aim and dodge all require either talent or practice to be good at.

Mental skill refers mainly to strategy and intelligence. In an FPS, mental skills apply to adapting to your opponents play styles, discovering his weaknesses, memorizing and utilizing the terrain, knowing what weapons and options to use in a given situation, etc. There is alot of room in RPG's for mental skill as it incorporates all forms of tactics. Doesnt matter if how automated the combat system is, you are still required to decide on what to attack and what to avoid and to run or kite or whatever else may be involved. PvP wise, knowing when to fight and when to run is the difference between living and dying, but it's the large scale pvp when things take on a whole new perspective.

When doing, lets say, Guild vs Guild style PvP, think of every single player is as a unit. There are lots of points where skill mental skill applies from the tactics you decide to employ in the fight, to the way you form the groups, to the way you position your troops. Leadership is one of the most critical points, having an intelligent and strategic leader(s) capable of delivering orders and adapting to the situation is critical to the entire picture. Communication actually falls into the physical skill category, being able to type fast or being able to talk clearly is vital to giving out orders. The actual choice of choosing the medium, IE using TS is a strategic action that falls into the mental category though. Things like zerg tactics are also another form of mental skill application, it just utilizes a simpler tactic of overwhelming by numbers. Someone has to make that choice and while less leadership is needed to perform, alot more management is required to keep more people satisfied and under your command. I see people ***** about "zerg tactics" alot a bit too blindly, more like an excuse to give up, than a motivator to overcome, so I thought I'd mention it.

There is also what I call diplomacy. The ability to communicate and get along with other players is a diplomatic importance that also falls into mental skills (IE People Skills). Some game mechanims require working together with additional guilds to accomplish a common goal not possible on their own. Sure one can attempt a zerg tactic in this scenerio, but then you have the management problem. It's easier to command a guild of 100 and communicate to the leaders of a two others with 100 more under their command, than it is commanding 300 yourself. Keeping 300 happy, and even ensuring they meet your guild's quality standards becomes that much more challenging that may easily result in a lower overall quality of 300 people vs the other 300 from 3 guilds. Again, this is just one example of many I could come up with. Being able to decide when you need to work together and form things like truces and alliances is often vital, and an example of the use of diplomacy to tip the odds in your favor.

In Lineage 2 when I formed Inner Circle, I recognized that my guild alone cannot take a castle so we worked out an alliance with 3 other guilds bent on taking all 4 castles together and sharing. The game doesnt just end there, please take a look at Playing to Win's 4 page article at Sirlin.net — Your source of shocking insights on game design » Blog Archive » Playing to Win, Part 0: Why Bother?. Just as predicted, other competative guilds were forced to employ deplomacy of their own and organize against us. And then we were forced to go the next step and things kept rising to a new level nobody was expecting the game to evolve into, and trying to manage everything among such global chaos is not easy. All of this falls right into the mental skill category, it's all based around strategy and the intelligence to form and reform them.


Hopefully that helped answer your question, I tend to ramble and I dont really organize my thoughts (I'm not writing a book you know), so this is for whatever it's worth. I guess the underlying point is that while there is physical and mental skill sets in gaming, mmorpg's are mostly mentally involved. You see people claim it takes no skill to play these games, I disagree with them. But you have to either be intelligent enough to see it, or be smart enough to work with others who are (afterall, dont most people join guilds with the intention of either getting loot, surviving pvp, or getting access to content they wouldnt see otherwise?).

Wow..i wont read all this, but since you wrote so much you must be right.
So i agree with you.

[NickyMunne]

There is a difference between a skilled player and a Talented player.

Talented players have a way of being fast physically as well as thinking fast.
Thinking and acting fast and knowing exactly what to do in a certain situation , having a passion for gaming and not settling for less ever is a talented player imo someone who truly feels it and gaming and being good at it just comes naturally.


In other mmorpgs I would always kill 25 mobs and do a bunch of stuff and return quest and lvl couple times while my girlfriends were still on one quest........ They were just not naturally good at games

[TwilightAngel]

Originally Posted by Ipmia

like title says.

so for some of you skill is about reflex, for other is about using the right skill at the right time , for other again its about getting the right setup, building you char in order to get a hedge over you r opponent.



what's your opinion ?

Are you making this thread bc of Nicky WoW thread saying you really dont need any skills to play it ????

[Trevyc]

Originally Posted by TwilightAngel

Are you making this thread bc of Nicky WoW thread saying you really dont need any skills to play it ????

Does it matter?

Anyway, I think skill is everything it takes to be a gamer. Ye know.. like the six senses minus a few :P

[Koji]

I like to think that skill in an MMO is using your classes abilities to the best they can.

This is the reason i like to be classes where i have to think about what i'm doing. Rogues, De buffers and mages are my top 3.

Rogues can't afford to draw alot of aggro and they have to use their stealth to get their most deadly moves out.

De Buffers are my favourite. Burglars in LOTRO are a good example. Sort of a mix between rogues and de buffers but they aren't the dps that rogues are. Although Mesmers in GW were the best de buffers. I liked how you had to consider both your opponents and your party when selecting skills and when to use them. Really is rewarding when you know you have played it right and aided the party in a huge way.

Mages need alot fo skill simply because they are weak and have to use certain spells at certain times to be able to survive.

I'm not a fan of anything that can spam heal or that tanks simply because their combat seems very 3-4 skill. Tanks just seem to run in draw everyone and hit them with a variety of animations.

Healers i suppose need skill but i've never really enjoyed the responsibility of being one. If your a good healer though...i like you.

[Praz]

personally i think gaming "skill" trully shines in games like FPS's and RPG's like Fable and such where u have buttons ment to dodge/roll/block, etc on the fly, while taking into consideration everything else going on around you. If Aion allows this type of combat i will truly be impressed as im not even sure MMO's can support that kind of play. But at least flying will probably be in first person mode, maybe like Oblivion or something. (Or so i read somewhere)

[Ecronyte]

Well I think "skill" is a players ability to take the game mechanics and use them in the most effective way possible for any given situation.

It doesn't matter if the game is a breeze, or if it demmands every last ouce of their mental and physical capacity. They all take skill to get the most out of them.

Now that being said. Not all games are as skill intensive as the next.

I think a lot of the problem with most MMOs is that "skill" comes from an investment of time, and not from actually being all that skilled. Skill ALWAYS comes into play. But a lot of the time your "skill" is easily trumped by a less skilled player with a LOT more free-time.

[kkthxbb]

Originally Posted by gr4vity

Wow..i wont read all this, but since you wrote so much you must be right.
So i agree with you.

lol........

[Ipmia]

Originally Posted by TwilightAngel

Are you making this thread bc of Nicky WoW thread saying you really dont need any skills to play it ????

not really.

[mcshell]

MMOs definitly require skills, just look at GW. First you need to make a build, think over all situatios you may face in fight and than you also need to know how to play it. You need correct formation, positioning (like hiding behind the wals against rangers...) and you need to be a quick thinker and know how exactly do your character skills work. You also need to be good at team work or if you're the party you need to be a good tactics caller and organizer. If you have all that, you have a chance to actually start wining.

[Koji]

Originally Posted by Praz

personally i think gaming "skill" trully shines in games like FPS's and RPG's like Fable and such where u have buttons ment to dodge/roll/block, etc on the fly, while taking into consideration everything else going on around you. If Aion allows this type of combat i will truly be impressed as im not even sure MMO's can support that kind of play. But at least flying will probably be in first person mode, maybe like Oblivion or something. (Or so i read somewhere)

D&D Online did the real time dodge, roll, block, attack thing rather than auto attack and stats rolls. Was really fun. Rolling out of danger as a wizard then giving them some AOE.