Skills

[srinknorei]

i remember SWG used to have that sort of system as well waaaaay back. anyone who is a vet from launch or pre-launch can tell you it was great fun and under that system, it was a superior game to what it's become now with trying to fit into the current MMORPG trend. these 'new systems' are far too linear. sure, they work, they're alright, but very constricting and i think getting a bit stagnant. it seems like more of the same form each MMO that's being developed. problem is, gaming companies, businesses in general, don't like to take much of a chance on what goes against the same old tried and true systems. the sandbox system was fun, but, i really don't know what hit the last nail in the coffin for that sort of system, or why it was suddenly tossed out as a less-than-ideal or as an invalid system when it seemed to work just fine. I've not played RFO, so I can't comment on that, and Ultima was a little before my time. I got into MMOs when I was 18.

it looks to me like aion will have the same sort of linear progression, but here's to hoping they make it far more entertaining, or give it a new twist.

[zalvador]

Yea, I hope they give it a twist, so it won't be that linear. But I still don't think a mage can change to a plate armor at will, that's just not in roleplaying art. A mage is a mage in my universe.

[Kyuzo]

I think Acheron's call had a pretty good skill and stat thing going for it.

[Morrobane]

I understand the desire for absolute customization, but to me that's always been more desirable in single player games like oblivion.

In MMO's having too much specilization i think causes clutter in group dynamics. Having more strict class guidelines allows for easier grouping. Also, I think this ultimately allows for more difficult/strategic encounters as it allows groups to assign roles and tactics better and thus more capable of deliverying a more complicated attack. I dunno that statement is certaintly hard to prove, but thats how it seems to me.

Another important thing to me is that having a mage throw on some heavy plate just seems to go against lore. Lore is relative to each game world or course, but in general I think it makes more sense in and RPG fantasy world to be devided amongst classes. Also I like the class bonds that happen within guilds/clans.

[Yakuzan]

Hell no, I just don't like it. There would have to be severe penalities to players who decide to become more than just X class.

[Old_ben]

Originally Posted by Morrobane

I understand the desire for absolute customization, but to me that's always been more desirable in single player games like oblivion.

In MMO's having too much specilization i think causes clutter in group dynamics. Having more strict class guidelines allows for easier grouping. Also, I think this ultimately allows for more difficult/strategic encounters as it allows groups to assign roles and tactics better and thus more capable of deliverying a more complicated attack. I dunno that statement is certaintly hard to prove, but thats how it seems to me.

Another important thing to me is that having a mage throw on some heavy plate just seems to go against lore. Lore is relative to each game world or course, but in general I think it makes more sense in and RPG fantasy world to be devided amongst classes. Also I like the class bonds that happen within guilds/clans.

I completly understand what your saying. But how ultima online did things was pretty good. If you were a mage, and wanted to wear plate armor, your mana and casting ability suffered alot. I think stuff like that to Encourage staying in one pure class should be in, but it shouldnt FORCE us to do it.

[Diablo]

It would be more awesomer than awesome, but they'll never do it.

[Old_ben]

Originally Posted by Diablo

It would be more awesomer than awesome, but they'll never do it.

Indeed... it's sad. If i made an MMO, it would have that type of skill system.

[Arif]

i say no. Because in that case this game also would be like UO. Having different classes is good because of team playing. "i need you, you need me" that's the main point of mmorpg. Think about it, you're Damage Dealer and healer. You wont need any party. Which means in most of the time you'll walk/exp alone. Only fighting against other players. I think in this case any non-online rpg game would be much better.

[Old_ben]

Originally Posted by Arif

i say no. Because in that case this game also would be like UO. Having different classes is good because of team playing. "i need you, you need me" that's the main point of mmorpg. Think about it, you're Damage Dealer and healer. You wont need any party. Which means in most of the time you'll walk/exp alone. Only fighting against other players. I think in this case any non-online rpg game would be much better.

SO you want this game to be like 100's of other MMORPGs? instead of like a few maybe 3 or 4 other MMORPGs?

[Arif]

yeap. as you say: "few maybe 3 or 4". Think for yourself, why they are 3 or 4, not x10? Because most of the people prefer to play class based mmorpgs. Every class must have it's own skills. That's what makes mmorpg really interesting.
Basically the main reason why we play mmorpgs, not just a non-online rpgs is that instead of AI opponents you have Human opponents + Human team members. And the main reason why you have team member is that you need his(her) class abilities. That's what makes you different.
If in AION people will have skill system like you said, then early or later there will become an optimal class which will be choosen by everyone and that will be boring to see everyone same with same skills.

[Old_ben]

Originally Posted by Arif

yeap. as you say: "few maybe 3 or 4". Think for yourself, why they are 3 or 4, not x10? Because most of the people prefer to play class based mmorpgs. Every class must have it's own skills. That's what makes mmorpg really interesting.
Basically the main reason why we play mmorpgs, not just a non-online rpgs is that instead of AI opponents you have Human opponents + Human team members. And the main reason why you have team member is that you need his(her) class abilities. That's what makes you different.
If in AION people will have skill system like you said, then early or later there will become an optimal class which will be choosen by everyone and that will be boring to see everyone same with same skills.

Have you ever played a game beyond WoW? Seriously it worked well for Ultima Online AND SWG before SWG decided to re-pooper-ize the game.

[Arif]

yes, l2, Ultima Online, wow, last chaos and some other stuff.

[Delgoth]

Originally Posted by Old_ben

Have you ever played a game beyond WoW? Seriously it worked well for Ultima Online AND SWG before SWG decided to re-pooper-ize the game.

lol! do you even read what you are typing? Lol, its sorta amusing to see all these people give intelligent responses to your original statement, then have you come out and preach more about UO...cut the BS and stop being a freaking hypocrite, telling other people to play other games outside of WoW (which i'm sure everyone here has!) then to come out and make love babies with UO is ridiculously hypocritical...

Listen, it was great being able to customize...to an extent. But what everyone is saying is simple: 10 years ago, that system was great. But in the now, we dont see it being that great. The reason that most people pick up an online game, is to play with other people in a social setting, while contributing in a group effort to accomplish something; whether it be killing a boss, doing quests, or just killing crap for fun !

However, when you introduce an UO system, you limit the group aspect dramatically. Within a class system, everyone has a specific job to preform. This is where many MMO's individualize by creating certain subclasses for the classes, that further define the pro's and con's to adding them to the party (based on what the party is trying to accomplish). With a UO approach, groups become less and less defined, while dual classer's confuse the economy ratio of classes. When i say economy ratio of classes, heres what i mean:

In online games, there are always shortages of certain classes at points within the development of that game. That is when members of the community re-roll as one of the needed classes either for the guild/clan they are in, for a unique expirience, or they could be doing it because the last few attempts at a certain boss failed because there were no Tanks on; which then compelled them to make one themselves. If Aion adopted a UO system, i can see it getting to the point that enough dual classers were created that the economy ratio of classes is totally thrown off: with too many X class ...and quite a few other problems that could take up pages if i wasn't so tired !

Also, aside from in-game reasons why a UO system isn't compatable with most MMO's, if you look at some of the types of Online Gamers out there (casual, hardcore, and the college lump), sometimes, a UO setting is too broad to focus in the short amount of time set aside for playing MMO's. If there are class system's in place, when someone logs on for the 1 hour they set aside to play, it is easier to define what needs to be done, what gear to get, what spells to buy, what boss to kill, etc. The class system makes an efficient transition from hard-core games (such as Lineage) to potentially casual games (such as GW and WoW) by defining what is and what is not possible to do within a set time. I'm not saying everyone would be dual classed, that would be quite idiotic if you asked me, but i am saying that it would make Aion a lot easier to cope with in the long run. Sorry to say, but i dont want another Lineage 2, or Guild Wars, or Ultima Star! i have those and have played those! i want something that i know i like, but that i havent expirienced.

Don't get me wrong, i loved UO class system...back then. however, i tend to think that MMO's evolve, and that the by-product is classing and subclassing. You aren't wrong to want to bring UO into Aion, its just that some people dont think that it will work (me included). So please for the love of God stop flaming people for their beliefs.

[Old_ben]

Originally Posted by Delgoth

So please for the love of God stop flaming people for their beliefs.

I'm not flaming anyone for there beliefs (is this a religion now?) but i was trying to defend the reason I would appreciate the system in place. I know many people agree with me.
I already said it would never make it into Aion, but I was only wondering who else felt it would be good to see in Aion (or any other new MMO for that matter).