Grinding

[Millithia]

everywhere on different forums and read ppl that hate grinding, but i cant really see how ppl can disslike it so bad? Ok grinding is really boring if just grind by urself or in a duo or trio all the time.

But when it comes to bigger grps like in lineage2 when u could be 9 ppl in a grp and go to hard places where u need good teamplay to survive its really "thrilling" and fun i think. is it just me or do u ppl hate that as well? and if u use ventrilo is even more fun i think

I tried out wow for some months and really hated it because it was so solo based except for instancing and i just couldnt take all the solo playing.

how do u ppl wanna balance levling in a game with grinding, questing, solo vs grouping, experience when pvp maybe? and is there any more option available?

is it so bad when it takes really long time to reach max lvl in a game, i mean when i start a new mmorpg game im in it for the long run, 2-3 years maybe. whats so fun to reach max lvl in 3 months?

[Absentimental]

Agreed that going with a group full of your mates using vent etc to venture to new areas is fun but with games such as lineage (im no hater) you only really get that feeling a couple of times and then your stuck grinding the same spot for a while till you level and can venture to a harder place perhaps.
With games like WoW because there is so many quests that ultimately level you up pretty fast and are soloable, it seems like less of a grind as you can change scenery alot more than as to the asian 'grinder' type games.

Ive played alot of games and one of the most fun memories ive had was playing legend of mir years and years ago, which was basicly a lineage style of game but damn fun! Especially when you can go around doing as you please because you are such a higher level than everyone else :P

[WindWalker]

i think that grinding can be fun but it depends where you do it,

once i was witha group of 3 on CofX and we were just running round killin stuff and even though most of the enemies were givin us practically no xp it was still fun just lazing arround killin the easy stuff. we must have been there for atleast an hour and i didn't get close to leveling but it was still fun

[Cynthe]

Grinding for the majority of the time you need to spend doing is boring as hell. The only time you have a really good time is when you are with your friends or get the good group once in a blue moon.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you can still grind mobs in Aion if you choose, but if they also have quest based XP you might find that everyone is out questing instead, much like lotro. I've often heard people complain why they couldn't find groups to grind with... And others would answer just go do some quests.

Having to grind in a group or alone isn't really the issue, it's how long it takes in one session, in FFXI you need 3 hours in the laters levels to gain one level, and that is if things go smoothly... A lot of people today don't have that kind of time to dedicate to a game anymore.

[Kyuzo]

They should let soloers have the options to do some quests for decent xp. Large groups should grind mobs for xp.

To me, grinding is not that big of a deal as long as I feel like I am making progress. As long as other people don't take advantage of grinding. (i.e. botters)

[Maakaa]

I can give real life testimony as to how Grinding ruins a game. I have played well over 15 mmorpg's and all of them fail to comfort the casual gamer. I played EQ2 (lvl 70 wizard) the longest and after 2 years I got bored with the high end content. Raiding has its benefits but only if you have time to spare and friends to play with. I played WOW for the last year and have found that the same rules apply. I played City of Heroes for 6 months when it first came out and by far it remains one of the worst grinding games yet. I only made lvl 17 on COH and found it too repetitious. In Final Fantasy XI online the grind is ridiculous and when you get to lvl 10 you will not ever get in a group in less than an hour. Runescape has 99 levels for each skill, grinding is a way of life and it is boring.

I love to play when I feel like playing and I hate the fact that you have to commit your soul to a game just to make a difference. A lot of the time you must grind to have a good time because 1.)The player level spectrum is uneven. 2.) The content is Raid oriented. 3.) The database of items isn’t geared towards casual players.

[Kyuzo]

There are plusses and minuses to everything.
The grind (either for xp or gear) may turn off a casual gamer from the game, but grinding is a system put into place for a reason.

It gives gamers a reason to play and a goal to work towards. Imagine playing an MMO where everyone already had max level and top gear. What would differentiate the gamers? And why would they even bother playing?

[Vosgy]

I liked L2 grinding cause yer you where in a big group of like 8 people just have some mates there on team speak and have a convisashion while it's grinding time lol

[Morrobane]

I think grinding is a somewhat necessary part of the MMO experience. Typically hardcore players mind it less, and in general I think MMO's in a general way are geared towards that kind of play...or at least only those players that put alot of hours in at one sitting will be able to get the entire experience the game can offer. LotRO as mentioned gave little xp for killing mobs and much more for questing, and theres loads of quests so to me that was about as far away from a grind an MMORPG is going to get. But, LotRO is also geared towards more casual play. If Aion is like that thats fine, if its like WoW I also would feel at home, if it's harder than WoW I personally still wouldn't think much of that fact. But thats just my preference.

Even if an xp grind is avoided, you're still likely to suffer one for crafting and currency accumulation keep in mind.

[truemajeed]

I've played Guild Wars for a year now... and there is almost no grinding, yet still there are huge differences between players at the top end, even if they have max armour...

You don't have to have grinding to have a stable top end to a game.


I played WoW for a while, and the grinding is horrible... even if you are doing quests, it just means grind, run, then grab a small reward, rather than just grinding!

The time it takes to level in WoW is horrible... especially for a new player...

The problem is that a (casual) player wants to get a boost every hour or so... which Guildwars provides, by giving you levels, attribute points and skill points, which you can quite quickly, but can make a big difference


One element which can effect grinding is other people... it is good fun if you can talk to your guild and friends while doing so, but also if you have a bit of competition (but not too much) like in runescape, where an area might have 4 monsters and 4 players, but since you bagged your own monster, this did not matter, and since the downtime between respawns was useful to regenerate health, the competition was just someone to talk to, and compare against

[Ipmia]

Originally Posted by truemajeed

I've played Guild Wars for a year now... and there is almost no grinding, yet still there are huge differences between players at the top end, even if they have max armour...

You don't have to have grinding to have a stable top end to a game.


I played WoW for a while, and the grinding is horrible... even if you are doing quests, it just means grind, run, then grab a small reward, rather than just grinding!

The time it takes to level in WoW is horrible... especially for a new player...

The problem is that a (casual) player wants to get a boost every hour or so... which Guildwars provides, by giving you levels, attribute points and skill points, which you can quite quickly, but can make a big difference


One element which can effect grinding is other people... it is good fun if you can talk to your guild and friends while doing so, but also if you have a bit of competition (but not too much) like in runescape, where an area might have 4 monsters and 4 players, but since you bagged your own monster, this did not matter, and since the downtime between respawns was useful to regenerate health, the competition was just someone to talk to, and compare against

that one made me laught.

first i dont think we can sayd GW doesnt have grind.. specially in faction and even more nightfall. Second someone playing GW for the first time will find it WAYY harder than WOW wich is very simple and fun since lvl 1. The grind in WOW comes once you get close to top lvl. and even there you not grinding to lvl yuo do it to get more stuff ( factions points, raids.. yea once you done the same severle time and start farming the dungeon its jsut grind too !)

Questing become something boring when you re not intersted in the reason and storyline of those quests.. just like most of people in WOW that jsut go get the quests without even reading, watch wowcartografer to know wher to go and jsut complet it as fast as possible to get more xp... that how most of people play WoW and in the end turn something supposed to be fun to something boring.


at first ( correct me if i m wrong) grind was used for someone that had to kill the same mobs/area for hours/days in order to obtein something.

Nowdays as soon as you have to do soemthing boring to you ( might not be to someone else ) its called grind ...

with that new definition i dont think you can make a game without.. actually i wouldnt want too ! if its always not fun to me then i m probably not playing the right game.

my 2 cents

[Cynthe]

Remember kids, one person's grind is another's playground ^_^
I'm saying that because personally I have never and will never consider questing a 'grind'. Which is why I don't feel like I'm ever 'leveling' when I'm questing. In LOTRO the levels were just stacking out of nowhere it seemed, because I'm used to hit the same mobs over and over for hours to level. And questing is something apart. When the two are brought together it's heaven for me

[Kira]

Originally Posted by Millithia

everywhere on different forums and read ppl that hate grinding, but i cant really see how ppl can disslike it so bad? Ok grinding is really boring if just grind by urself or in a duo or trio all the time.

But when it comes to bigger grps like in lineage2 when u could be 9 ppl in a grp and go to hard places where u need good teamplay to survive its really "thrilling" and fun i think. is it just me or do u ppl hate that as well? and if u use ventrilo is even more fun i think

I tried out wow for some months and really hated it because it was so solo based except for instancing and i just couldnt take all the solo playing.

how do u ppl wanna balance levling in a game with grinding, questing, solo vs grouping, experience when pvp maybe? and is there any more option available?

is it so bad when it takes really long time to reach max lvl in a game, i mean when i start a new mmorpg game im in it for the long run, 2-3 years maybe. whats so fun to reach max lvl in 3 months?

*brain explodes*

Leaving WoW discussion behind (which clearly shows your lack of indepth knowledge of the game).
Goodjob, you find out that friends increase the fun factor.
Still, grinding remain the most boring (and easiest) feature to add in a mmo.

[Shinkotetsu]

Aion's new exp system does sound like it'll be something to look forward to, a bit of a change from the normal MMO level systems. I've yet to see an MMO that has reached some sort of "zen" between grinding and questing, to the point where is matches perfectly with a casual gamer and a hardcore gamer ... well maybe GW, haven't played much of it to state a full opinion. WoW's leveling system was ease and simple, no offense to WoW players, in the sense that you could stack up to 20 quests at a time (now 25 if I'm not mistaken), complete all the quests on one day (6 or less hours), get at least a level or two from the mobs involved when doing the quest, then turn in all 20 quests and be instantly up 2 or 3 levels (depending on level and area, I know).

If you look at the big picture, leveling in wow is fairly simple and fast paced compared to others such as FFXI, where a considerable amount of time is spend finding/getting a party together, setting up the skill chains, designating healers/support ect, arguing over who's going to pull/tank whatever, then you actually get into the grinding. FFXI doesn't have that many, if at all, exp reward quests that would be worth the time doing. Most of the quests involved in FFXI are mission based, or item based (most of which require high level help, ex AF gear/weapons). Also, after Lv10/12 soloing in FFXI is not going to happen unless you have a job capable of it, and even then it's not going to go as fast as it would in a group. I personally enjoy FFXI, as a break from Lineage 2 every now and then, Ranger ftw!

Lineage 2 is a whole different story; the exp is plain and simple ... grinding, end of story. Constant grinding that can be done solo or in a group, as Millithia and Vosgy have stated, in a catacomb or high level area where the exp differential between party members would be the same, or much higher than that of someone soloing somewhere else. That is of course assuming you haven’t made any high level enemies :coughLittlePigscough::

The point I'm trying to make by describing these three games is that they are different in their own way and appeal to different people, which allows some to have drastically more subscribers than most, like WoW for instance with it's sheer numbers. Aion may or may not appeal to those who like grinding vs. those who like questing, or it may, hell, they might even balance out the exp gained from mobs and quests, we don't know yet. They might try to mix it all together to appeal to a wide array of gamers and make the gaming experience enjoyable to everyone. I think I may have also strayed a bit from the topic here ... A.D.D kicked in half way though.

[truemajeed]

My point is this:

In GW you don't grind...I don't know what you were doing, but since it is perfectly possible to get to max lvl in the time some people posting here seem to think is ok to play in a single day I hardly think that you can claim that GW has a grind... and at least it has an involving storyline, with missions etc. which really keep you knowing what is going on... WoW has general themes, but is not nearly as in depth... which means that playing GW is fun just to do the quests and follow the story without reading every line... while this makes WoW very boring... perhaps you cannot count it as grinding but still... WoW is not as involving imho.

Oh and I said hard to level, not hard to get to grips with...

Also, questing can be fun, but endless questing without anything else tends to grind (which is a perfectly acceptable usage of the word grind!) It gets boring to kill the same things 100 times just to get some items, gw might make you kill 20, which takes 5 mins...in wow an almost identical quest will take 1/2 an hour, with a similar or smaller reward... blame this on 'noobishness' if you like, but in WoW you have no henchmen/heroes to help you out... perhaps membership of a really huge guild is necessary...

Oh and speaking as a relatively casual gamer, WoW does not give quick boosts, instead requiring huge time input to get to 70... e.g. 100+ hours or a lot more... which will grind to a casual player.... if it takes you more than 10 logins to gain a single level you get kinda bored.... maybe you guys have a huge amount of free time but there are people who don't....