Bots and Gold sellers

[2aimless]

Originally Posted by Calindor

and endrance i know what you're saying, but if its part of the game and people are doing it/i think its worth my money instead of the time/effort it would take me to get what i'm buying otherwise...i will do it. I would prefer it not there at all, but i'll take any advantages i can get, and however you look at it...if you can buy some ingame currency and get away with it 100%, then it is an advantage.

"It's part of the game"

For sure its not. Goldselling was not meant to be in mmos.
But society teaches everyone to be greedy to be successfull...

You know i heard stories about ppl killing guys of other clans because they were superior ingame.

Now you might think too that "it's part of the game"

This hardcore Goldfarming started with wow the game everyone wanted to right join and have "fun". Meaning they "pwn" others through cheating.

They dont play other games like fps. Because if they cheat there everyone will leave the server and just say stay fcking away from me moron...

But in mmo you cant just quit and start a new round. Why the heck your so obsessed by cheating and destroying the fun for other people?

I always preferred the way of thinking from mmo players... because it was different from the way the normal people often behave...

But now with the PLAY 1 MINUTE AND BE THE BEST AND FEEL HAPPY thing all thise btches start playing games...

I admire people who play or work hard to be best at the things they are doing. Well when i look at you...
You really want to be the best. But your just a poor guy without purposefulness, without anything anyone could admire... Except the gear you bought with cheated money. But you dont care about all those words right?
So then go and die!

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Kaldur

I don't know dude, what Calindor mentions opens a lot of ground for debate, although, personally I wouldn't consider buying in-game currency in-game a form of "cheating" and even less, "cheating people" in-game.

Wtf man, alot of ground to debate? Honestly, without having the intention of flaming or offending you, that's a huge load of bull.
So, say there'd be two players. You and a friend. Both of you kept doing quests, a bit farming, leveling or w/e in a typical MMO together. As a side note, both of you wanted to do PvP-duel later on. While you kept at it, although after awhile it got kinda boring (as it is in most MMOs as most MMOs still fail at being MMOs), your friend read this "selling ingame currency for real money"-shout in the chat-log. He decided to buy some, cause it seemed easier than farming 2 hours in the woods.
So, the day came and both of you showed up for the PvP duel, but what the heck, your friend suddenly had some neat gear with uber def and atk rates and beat you to a pulp. You were like "man, did you do some secret farming sessions when I wasn't there? haha" and he answered "nah, I've bought some ingame cash for real money.". Wouldn't you feel kinda... like being cheated?
I don't know how you see it, but that alone is enough reason for those people to be cheating you. The question rather is, how is that not cheating?

Someone mentioned that RMT's tend to destroy an MMO economy, but I beg to differ, the ones who actually destroy the game's economy it's us, the greedy players, who want to make a profit on everything we do, so we tend to overprice everything, thus, inflating the whole economy.

Sure, as long as those RMT just farm the same mob over and over for a tiny amount of gold all day, it's unlikely that they'd be a huge part of inflation. But as soon as those RMTs use spots that used to be great farming spots for real players, they ARE monopolozing and controlling the prices at their wish and they ARE stealing those spots from real players.

I'm not saying buying currency is a good thing to do since it is performed by shady RMT companies, but they (RMT's) are getting the currency from the game, it's not counterfeit or illegal.

It's like using knuckle dusters when boxing or super-duper high speed cyborg feet when playing football or using two queens against one in chess from the beginning. Just because you've paid real money for it, how does that make it fair to the player who follows fair rules? It's an unfair advantage, taken from a world that should have nothing to do with this one and it's against the rules. Even if those rules may be unwritten about MMOs, it's nothing else, it's 100% the same thing.
Especially when a game is competitive, it's the 2nd worst possible cheating ingame (besides hacking).

[Kaldur]

Well, thank you for the nice dissection of my post
The thing here is that "you" would feel cheated if he/she told you "I buy currency"...what if this person just tells you, "oh I went to an instance/BCNM and got some phat loot from the fight, and I sold it for great money!"...would you feel cheated?
I mean, besides Calindor, I know probably 2 more people that have openly accepted they buy currency for the hell of it and for PvP.
PvP specially, makes people very competitive, and it doesn't matter how, you gotta win.

I've also been thinking a lot about your last paragraph, I totally agree with you, and want to apply this to music and arts. I would say (based on that post) that Led Zeppelin, Jimmy Hendrix, Aerosmith, Gun N' Roses, Salvador D'Ali, Pablo Picasso, Janice Joplin, Leonardo Da'Vinci, and others have "cheated" humanity, since they used Hallucinogens and other psychotropic drugs to enhance (or acquire) their creative skills...it's an unfair advantage since any other person in their "normal state of mind" wouldn't be able to even get close to that level of "creativeness" (or how I call it, craziness )

So you see? It's just a matter of Point of View

[2aimless]

Originally Posted by Endrance

It's like using knuckle dusters when boxing or super-duper high speed cyborg feet when playing football or using two queens against one in chess from the beginning. Just because you've paid real money for it, how does that make it fair to the player who follows fair rules? It's an unfair advantage, taken from a world that should have nothing to do with this one and it's against the rules. Even if those rules may be unwritten about MMOs, it's nothing else, it's 100% the same thing.
Especially when a game is competitive, it's the 2nd worst possible cheating ingame (besides hacking).

I think its the WORST cheating because other people cant do anything but accept it... Can they report them? Oh you need the payment sht and whatelse to make sure that he bought that for 100% and there is no possible way that he could not have cheated.
Hacking can still be frapsed and punished more easily.

Don't bring all the fcking things in the cruel real world into the wonderful world of a mmorpg. I mean GTFO with cheating. You ban aimbotters. So ban Goldbuyers.

I think one core value of MMORPGs is to achieve something TOGETHER...
But those cheaters probably are btches and only enjoy pwning because they got a p*nis that is incredible small...
Yes thats flame but you deserve flame and nothing else if you think that cheating is ok.

Originally Posted by Kaldur

I've also been thinking a lot about your last paragraph, I totally agree with you, and want to apply this to music and arts. I would say (based on that post) that Led Zeppelin, Jimmy Hendrix, Aerosmith, Gun N' Roses, Salvador D'Ali, Pablo Picasso, Janice Joplin, Leonardo Da'Vinci, and others have "cheated" humanity, since they used Hallucinogens and other psychotropic drugs to enhance (or acquire) their creative skills...it's an unfair advantage since any other person in their "normal state of mind" wouldn't be able to even get close to that level of "creativeness" (or how I call it, craziness )

So you see? It's just a matter of Point of View

Oh yeah they kill in real life and cheat in real life and are btches in real life so its ok if ppl are doing it. Your argumentation is stupid. And why the fck drugs enhance creative skills?
I BET YOU COULDNT CREATE THAT EVEN WITH 10 TONS OF DRUGS... So stop talking good about cheating. Its not!

[Endrance]

This time I don't have to quote your full post, cause this one pretty much does it.

Originally Posted by Kaldur

So you see? It's just a matter of Point of View

No, it's a matter of using cheap excuses and lying, while being a bad gamer.

Just because you can do a bad thing unseen doesn't make the bad thing any better. Truth will always be brought to light someday. We all know that it does and how it affects the community and MMOs. And I just can't take someone talking so lightly about this.

[Kaldur]

Hehe, hate the game, not the player ;D
Where I go with this is that the same games we play makes us all potential victims to currency-buying. Why? simply because the games we play, at some points, ask more from us than what we can give.
This situation for the ultra-competitive type of player makes him/her even more susceptible to buy currency to equip him/herself for PvP or PvE (pick one).
I'm not condoning the practice of currency-buying, I also believe is not ethical, and I hate RMT's, but hey, you gotta dmit that there's a market for everything in this world.

...and 2Aimless...calm down dude...we're trying to have a civilized debate here lol

[mrpica]

Originally Posted by Gravity

Lol, this would never happen.. but they could have a system in which a GM could lock logging in for 5 minutes, and message players in game, saying "Please log out now as the server will be shut down for 5 minutes." Then after 5 minutes kick everyone left in the game. If they did this every few hours, botters could only bot for that long.By only being down for 5 mins it really wouldn't hurt normal players unless they are in a siege or raiding. And to fix that they could give a warning 30 minutes beforehand, so players don't plan anything big during that time. And if you don't log out in time, you lose all your current gold and items, exept equipped ones of course. Then the only problem would be those who afk. And they could make it so that afk people get kicked after 15/20 minutes of afkness.And if you afk after the warning then you deserve to have your inventory wiped, for being dumb!

Jeez that took forever to type with colors. ):

i did run those bot programs and when the server goes down , it automaticly logges in again so it doesnt realy matter , i could even make my bots say things if ppl pmed me or have them logged out if a gm came near me
(used them on private server tho)

[2aimless]

Originally Posted by Kaldur

...and 2Aimless...calm down dude...we're trying to have a civilized debate here lol

Your attitude is just making me angry. You talk about cheaters like they are victims of the game and the game forced them to do that. Soon you will tell us that bad things happening in childhood are the reason why people do that.

There is no excuse for cheating. If you want to debate in a civilized way stop your two-faced stories. Noone expects you to be ultra-competetiv. Your the only one who can decide for your life.

There are just some simple moral values. And there will be no situation where you can excuse that you cheated.

They way your talking about those cheaters is just a much to liberal way.
You hate RMT but you sound like you support people who do it. There will be everytime the way to cheat, to abuse, to make people spend money to get things easier. The way to stop is to prevent it, to make them feel bad and to punish them. They will go on and this will grow bigger if you tell them "Oh yes i can understand you... You dont want to play you just want to pwn some noobs for one week and then complain that the game is so bad and although you spend so much money there are still some people who are better. Its not you fault. You made everything right."

Cmon man... This is ridiculous...

We choose the game we want to play. And you tell us that we choose a game that wants something from us? Yes if you dont like to grind, if you dont like to pvp, if you dont like to get spanked STOP PLAYING MMORPGs.

"hate life not your murderer" this is exactly what you said.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Kaldur

Hehe, hate the game, not the player ;D
Where I go with this is that the same games we play makes us all potential victims to currency-buying. Why? simply because the games we play, at some points, ask more from us than what we can give.

I have never said that the MMO itself cannot be the reason (reread my previous posts and you will find the sentence "I can understand where they're coming from"). I even mentioned myself several times in this forums how most MMOs, even the majority of the genre fails. The point you're speaking of is a main reason for me to say that.
Then again, if you're overwhelmed by monotonous grinding/farming, do not use bots. Do not hack. It doesn't make things better. Objectively it's a bad compromise. Of course, subjectively for the single person, depending on their goal (which is not something as beating people in competitive play through cheating), it can be an advantage or rather, a temporary good feeling. But in the end, it's just what it is. Pure cheating, making yourself have a fake good feeling (I always quit those games - if everyone would do that we would maybe have much better MMO's than we currently do) and making many others feel worse. That's why it's weak.

This situation for the ultra-competitive type of player makes him/her even more susceptible to buy currency to equip him/herself for PvP or PvE (pick one).
I'm not condoning the practice of currency-buying, I also believe is not ethical, and I hate RMT's, but hey, you gotta dmit that there's a market for everything in this world.

The debate about how there's a market for everything is not in my interest.

[Kaldur]

The market for everything should be of your interest if we are talking about RMT's and currency selling.
If there are people who are willing to buy in-game currency, there's always someone who is willing to provide them.
At the end, if someone's rotten, playing ethics are of no concern. These individuals will just go and buy currency. The way they might think is "I don;t care what carebears think, I'll just gank them with my phat new gear" and will probably group together with other ethic less players like themselves.

I repeat, I'm not condoning these people's way of gaming, I actually hate it.
My point is, you guys can't do anything about it once a person has his/her head on doing something like buying in-game currency.
From our side, there's something we can do, and that is, pointing at the bots and known RMT's.

2aimless...I just read the first sentence of your post and I believe you totally missed my point, so I stopped right there...you need a chill pill, bro.

[2aimless]

Originally Posted by 2aimless

Your attitude is just making me angry.

Aha well i consider you didnt want me feel like that but you actually do.
We are talking to you that ethnics and punishment prevent people from doing this. You just tell us, that there is a market for everything and people will still do that.

Now i give you some examples:

1.) You want a gun. You can get one for some bucks from your neighbor.

2.) You want a gun. You can get it from your neighbor buts illegal and if someone police noticed that you get punishment. (Like taking away the weapon and take away some of your money.)

3.)You want a gun. You can get it from you neighbor but hes the only one who can farm weapons and so his prizes are insane and its illegal.

4.)You want a gun. You can get it from you neigbor and his prizes are insane and its illegal and everyone else would immidiatly report you to police if he notice the change.

5.)You want a gun. You can get it from you neigbor and his prizes are insane and its illegal and everyone else would immidiatly report you to police if he notice the change and everyone would tell you that your a looser and you should feel bad because you did something WRONG.

Now the amount of people who will purchase a gun from 1 to 5 will decrease in a high number. The way you talk about RMT buyers is already support for them. We know there is a market for everything. But you make them feel like its ok. Just keep on saying i hate you and gtfo. Thats what i want to say xD

I dont get it that rules dont count anymore. There is a rule so break it if noone complains. When there is the possibility to break it you should do it...
or wth you want me to tell by saying the market is an interest. The market will keep low and it will be harder to purchase things cheap if you keep people away from buying. Cant you just follow the rules? THe market is now excuse for cheating. its not stop talkign about it.
Rules are not there to be broken. I think the one who told us that sentence was a ***...

People always look up the behavior of others. So ethnics and rules do matter!
I know your against them to but you make them feel that they do something wrong and your posts actually dont. They are like "cheating is easy and there is a great market and noone will find out that you did it but you should not"

Now try to keep the first part away and just tell them they should not. k?

[Kaldur]

I just read your first and last paragraphs of your post (sorry I am allergic to block-o'-texts )

I repeat once again, I think you are missing my point or just plain misinterpreting it.
First, I talked about "Ethics" not "Ethnics", which are pretty much something totally different to one another.
Second, I am not against the ethics that we should all apply to a MMO. I'm just trying to establish, that even if ethical behavior for many of us is very important to develop a healthy community, there is always people who are not going to give a s**t about what you or me think.

Cheers

[2aimless]

im sorry my english is bad... ethics, ethics, ethics! wont forget it xD

[ei8th]

In Guild Wars, they are currently doing a "crackdown" on real money trading and bots. Here's the (EU) info site on this: Support | Guild Wars

So I believe we can be certain that similar actions will be taken in Aion. Hopefully

[Kaldur]

Geez...you're just waiting at my responses? o.O? lol