Bots and Gold sellers

[Ecronyte]

Originally Posted by Kaldur

Well, thank you for the nice dissection of my post
The thing here is that "you" would feel cheated if he/she told you "I buy currency"...what if this person just tells you, "oh I went to an instance/BCNM and got some phat loot from the fight, and I sold it for great money!"...would you feel cheated?

The very obvious difference here is that your friend put in more work that you did. He spent time and effort doing an instance to earn money, while you didn't. He earned his money.

getting your money from RMT gives you an unearned (ingame) advantage.

You seem to offer a lot of justification, and excuses for people who buy from RMT. You point out several times that we can't stop them, and that there will always be a market for ingame assets. Yet you also say you are against them, and people who buy from them. So I'm wondering, what exactly is the point your trying to make?

I mean almost everyone in this thread would agree that we will never fully be rid of RMT, and those that buy from them. The fact that there will always be a market for ingame assets does not make it okay, nor does it preclude any further discussion.

And as for aimless, I can sympathize with the frustration. Although your arguments are mostly reasonable. You tend to make them in a very smug/self-amused way.

But I guess that's just a matter of my Point of View

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Kaldur

The market for everything should be of your interest if we are talking about RMT's and currency selling.
If there are people who are willing to buy in-game currency, there's always someone who is willing to provide them.

I don't care about the market. There's alot of holes in this world, but that doesn't mean that you should jump into them.
I just want to point out that it sucks doing it and why it does.

At the end, if someone's rotten, playing ethics are of no concern. These individuals will just go and buy currency. The way they might think is "I don;t care what carebears think, I'll just gank them with my phat new gear" and will probably group together with other ethic less players like themselves.

I repeat, I'm not condoning these people's way of gaming, I actually hate it.

I'd like to quote you here:

"Hehe, hate the game, not the player ;D"

Those people should just learn that cheating means failing. If the game sucks, you give feedback. If that doesn't help, you quit. By cheating you destroy the game itself at several points and other people's motivation to play them - Even if buying ingame money might not hit other people directly by those cheaters lying to you, if I know that others are avoiding harder parts (maybe too hard/monotonous ones) of the game by cheating (this is just one of the negative sides, just so you know) and I have to do those ****ty parts myself, because I don't cheat - it completely destroys any motivation to do so and hence, playing the game.

Calindor really has made me angry, because he's actually one of the guys who's looking for a harder game, but now he's talking about avoiding them by actually supporting Real Money Trading if there's an opportunity given (he hasn't even said anything about real crap monotonous parts - although that still wouldn't be enough reason to cheat in a MMO - he was just talking about the given advantage). That just ****ed me off to the max, cause I have experienced myself several times how exactly that has destroyed games and the motivation to play them..
He maybe has played L2 and he's right about it being monotonous as **** about the PvM part, but he was talking in general here, not only about L2.

My point is, you guys can't do anything about it once a person has his/her head on doing something like buying in-game currency.

That's not a point. That's trying to make a point and fail, since this hasn't been about doing anything against it (that's another topic). We were just talking about the subject itself and not trying to find rapid solutions.

From our side, there's something we can do, and that is, pointing at the bots and known RMT's.

I wonder why this completely differs from the sentence above. But dude, that's exactly what I was doing in this thread.

[Kaldur]

I'm just trying to lay all the facts on the table, not take sides. The people who think I'm taking the "buyers" side, you are mistaken.

I mean, all I lay on the table are true facts, this is not made up. If we want solutions, to the RMT problem, please, be so kind and share them.

This ain't aimed at anyone in particular, I just wanted to mention since all I see is my posts being dissected, instead of used as base to find solutions.

Cheers

[Endrance]

And all I've said is that your facts did not open ground to debate (that's what I've been talking against - there's nothing to debate), neither did they make any useful point.

Smiling and laughing while talking about such a despised topic kinda feels like being a bit... off as well. >.>

[Kaldur]

lol, I just think you are a little bit uptight...they're just games you know? they take the best or worst out of anyone

The fact that you don't find the whole thing debatable doesn't mean it is not, but seems there's not enough people to do so, so I'll just quit before someone here gets their aneurism in bad shape and explodes

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Kaldur

lol, I just think you are a little bit uptight...they're just games you know? they take the best or worst out of anyone

Actually that's incorrect. They're competitive platforms in many ways and mainly depend on the community, rather like any other professional game where cheating is despised the same or even more. Of course, they're still games, but since they depend on the community, people inside that community should also follow reasonable rules instead of breaking them only for their own advantage.

The fact that you don't find the whole thing debatable doesn't mean it is not, but seems there's not enough people to do so, so I'll just quit before someone here gets their aneurism in bad shape and explodes

No one holds you back. Feel free to quit.

[Karukan]

there is no way i'm rereeadin through 16 pages of this but here are my views on this issue.

The only way you can keep things like this from or at least reduce it is by setting up the game to where it makes buying gold not worth it. A big way to do that is by having binding equipment and having the best equipment in game only available by earning it through some means other than buying it. This is one of the reasons Lineage 2 had such bad bot problems. They made drop rates for equipment way too low and all equipment had to be bought or crafted. So the farmers would set up bot trains running 24/7 which would get them lots of drops and gold, then they would sell you the gold on ebay so you could turn around and buy the equipment from their shops.

The only other option would be to actively seek out and stop people who are buying /selling as well as actively banning accounts involved in both buying/selling as well as botting, but no game has done this well so I have no expectations of this one doing it either.

[xIYurikIx]

Well Im just going say my opinion, havnt read what other people said...
No matter what they going try we'll always going to have bots and gold seller because that how they make money for the living. Plus their lots of cheaters who like to play the easyer way.. Hackers can crack any codes of any protection if they good with coding and other stuff. So it dosn't really matter what they going to do, so just deal with it and have fun playing the game .. If u see botter just pk them that what I did in L2

[Ipmia]

bot, rmt's... you are mistaken in the first place.. RMT's is something, botting another. While illegals bot programs helps the RMT's ( as miuch as the cheater) those are 2 different things.

RMT's can be handled.. but when they do it with illegals programs ( ala L2) its get out of hand.

I personnaly dont give a crap about people buying or not irl money/items as long as it doesnt directly affect my little gaming world.

See Lineage as tons of bots, a good half being RMTs and the other good half just players botting.. it became soemthing "normal" in this game. it does affect directly gameplay because the spots are fileld with bots ( and "protectors") and he money sold directly give a huge hedge to that irl buyer gamer.

In WoW ( and yea there is as much rmts in wow than l2.. jsut less obvious due to the thousands of servers) its doesnt directly affect you.. no matter how much money you buy it wont change the fact that you ll have to farm the best ones (you could eventually pay elite guild to get the drops but then you d get them after the other wich is not in the irl money buyer logic).


2 different games filled with bots and rmt's where the impact ingame is totally different.

[Calindor]

I guess it all depends on the game. WoW didnt start gold farming. There were people running multi clients on different computer on Lineage 2 with bot programs farming gold and selling it on ebay spending thousands a year on game accounts/subscriptions before people even heard of World of Warcraft.

Getting gear is not the purpose of L2 for example (the game I have botted/RMT'd in...and so did everyone else who's been a factor on a L2 server) like it is in WoW. When I get all the best gear, and hit the level cap, I have just as much, if not more things to do in game. My playing time will increase and i'll have more fun. Getting gear and leveling up in L2 are just things you have to do before you start the game (or things you do in the middle of what the game is actually about). Aion has 24/7 seiges, open ganking in the abyss and raiding...That will keep me occupied no matter what level or gear I have.

Like I said, I plan to be on top...if i can buy some currency on ebay and get away with it I'll do it, as long as it's worth it. I'm not going to watch other people do it and protest it like some martyr (which will change nothing) for the sake of the community while those people are getting ahead.

If RMT is in the game, protesting it or supporting it will not change anything. If I can RMT I will, if I cant then I wont...either way I will enjoy myself.

The game (server) I played on the longest in my MMO career is actually a legit L2 server. Its a private server and there is no way to use a bot program, there is no ebaying, no donating for in game items/currency, they even built coding into the game that wont allow you to run more than 1 client per computer, and they actively ban people who are boxing with different computers. There is most likely a small underground of RMT, but you can't advertise it anywhere on the forums...someone in my clan was once offered 300euros for his account...not bad for a private L2 server.

A private server is the only way this can be done though...There is no subscriptions, and no donating for things in game, so they make their money/players based on the quality of gameplay. There is donating for things like character transfers, name changes, special pets (that do nothing), forum/irc privleges. But they really aren't making money. So theres no reason for them to allowed exploiting. In the past year theyve probably spent over $20 000 USD running their server, and most likely made slightly more back. It was also a 10 times better experience for me than playing retail Lineage2 which was full of those exploits.

But if I were to play L2, I would have a lot more fun ebaying and botting than I would playing legit...only because practically everyone is doing it. I cant see any reason to bot in Aion...but if RMT isnt allowed, and regularly banned for (which I hope it is), then I wont), but if everyone is doing it, and its giving the people on top the advantage, then I will.

Originally Posted by Sabre

Ok but it'll also kick people who are afk selling? Or gone for an hour to do something IRL but need to stay logged in?

And if you're in the middle of a big long boss fight, and it pops for everyone, people might be too occupied and busy doing their job and not notice the code.

If theres an AH you dont need to afk sell. Why would you need to stay logged in afk...what reason would it serve other than adding stress on the server. You can just log back in and take off from where you started.

and thats why i said it should give you 5 minutes to enter the code, and not pop up in the middle of the screen, maybe a blinking light in the corner, so it doesnt interfear with what you are currently doing.

Also the only way to sell in L2 is manually trading, or afk shops...walking into Aden and seeing ~300 people sitting on the ground and 100+ others running around is quite annoying and hard on your computer

The only times (with a purpose) I've been afk in a game were with a shop, raid boss macroing (which is technically illegal...you make a macro to target the raid boss, and then PM several people in your clan your target name...if there is no target, nothing is sent, if you have a target, it will pm the name and they will know the raid has spawned. You goto the raid boss' spawn, download an auto clicker, put your mouse cursor over the macro and set it to click every few seconds, and third is afk leeching in an exp party...and im willing to sacrifice that

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Calindor

Like I said, I plan to be on top...if i can buy some currency on ebay and get away with it I'll do it, as long as it's worth it. I'm not going to watch other people do it and protest it like some martyr (which will change nothing) for the sake of the community while those people are getting ahead.

What do you plan to be on top for? People feel proud to be on the top because they've accomplished something others didn't. If you'd look back, you'd see yourself doing what? That's right, cheating yourself and cheating others.

I just want you to know that it's not okay doing so, so you'll at least not have the true feeling of being one of the best, cause in fact, you wouldn't be. That's the truth, no matter if you prefer to live inside your little illusionary world.

If RMT is in the game, protesting it or supporting it will not change anything. If I can RMT I will, if I cant then I wont...either way I will enjoy myself.

Maybe it will not change anything, but it'll at least differ the cheating weaklings from real gamers. Now with that attitude, guess what categorisation you fall under.

But if I were to play L2, I would have a lot more fun ebaying and botting than I would playing legit...only because practically everyone is doing it. I cant see any reason to bot in Aion...but if RMT isnt allowed, and regularly banned for (which I hope it is), then I wont), but if everyone is doing it, and its giving the people on top the advantage, then I will.

If that's the truth, then any real gamer would quit that game, while saying "**** this stupid ****!".
Now stop trying to find excuses, they're so cheap, it makes me sick.

I hope Celestin will delete you from his list of trustworthy people, cause like this, you're simply not worth being on it.

[Kaldur]

Endrance should study Medicine, he's great at dissecting... lol

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Kaldur

Endrance should study Medicine he's great at dissecting... lol

"Laying facts on the table" again?
If you want to discuss something as irrelevant, PM me next time instead of needlessly going off topic after running out of arguments for a obviously useless purpose.

[Otium]

Originally Posted by Endrance

"Laying facts on the table" again?
If you want to discuss something as irrelevant, PM me next time instead of needlessly going off topic after running out of arguments for a obviously useless purpose.

Boy, if it wasn't that sig full of gentle little girls, I would consider you tough.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Otium

Boy, if it wasn't that sig full of gentle little girls, I would consider you tough.

Then you obviously overrate signature pictures.