Bots and Gold sellers

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Calindor

I hope they do so too, but if they dont and people are RMTing left, right and centre, then so will I.

Find me anyone on a L2 retail server who is in a factor clan that wins sieges/raid bosses, or gets hero that doesnt Bot, RMT and multiclient/2box....I would be suprised to see more than a few ...and the key word is FACTOR clan...like 70% of L2 players never make it to the top, never experience the joy end game pvp and drama can be when you are in a good clan..the only part of the game they see is the endless grind and exploiting...which is a shame

Dude, **** the game and their developers by quittin, instead of other players by buying ingame currency. What you're telling us here is like saying "I don't care about other players, I just want to enjoy the game myself. **** people.", which makes you no better than the people who are selling it. And those are, you said it yourself, not something desirable. So your acting is simply illogical, unless you actually want to support them.
If you tell me that you don't care either way and you just want to take any advantage you can get, that's just the same as saying "The end justifies the means.". People like that always fail, even if they'd finally reach their goal. Why can't you realize that?

By the way, do you like Slipknot?


EDIT: This begins to feel like the discussion about environmental pollution... everybody thinks it's right, but only a few people (the winners?) actually care.

[Isley]

Originally Posted by xIYurikIx

Well I'm just going say my opinion, haven't read what other people said...
No matter what they going try we'll always going to have bots and gold seller because that's what gamers want

Fixed.

Originally Posted by Calindor

Like I said, I plan to be on top...if i can buy some currency on eBay and get away with it I'll do it, as long as it's worth it. I'm not going to watch other people do it and protest it like some martyr (which will change nothing) for the sake of the community while those people are getting ahead.

With player's support, we will produce large amounts of gold to supply your in game adventures

Originally Posted by Livvy

QFT and end of debate . The only reason you have bots and gold sellers is because there is a demand for that gold being purchasable. Take away the demand and it ends or is a mere trickle . Banning, IP blocking, in game monitoring etc. does not work because it does nothing about the demand side and only tackles the supply side of the issue .

Completely true. However, how would one plan on eliminating demand? The people creating this demand are legitimate game players. The very same people who post different opinions in this thread. NCsoft can't simply remove them.

People have speculated at changing game play mechanics in order to render RMT ineffective. The problem here is that MMORPGs by design are games that thrive on large amounts of playing time to be invested, in order to keep the game interesting while slowly improving a player's progress. So far, developers changing things at such a fundamental level have always ended up with disastrous results... (Star Wars Galaxies and Runescape come to mind).

As an operator, I can safely say the only "gaming" method to end to RMT is by developing self-regulated models using either micro transactions or third party currency sales. Some Asian MMO developers have already started working with large RMT websites in order to establish their own RMT platform.

Gosh... what happened to the times where I actually *played* these games...

[Calindor]

you are taking this way too serious, its just a video game...RMTing in a game is a lot different than refusing to recycle or something. And i dont think the quality of gameplay for other people whether i do it or not...like i said I would only do it if it was part of the game (whether intended or not) like it is in L2. If people everywhere in the game are doing it...then so will i. im not trying to start this RMT revolution for aion.

It also all depends on the game. In L2 whether you bot, ebay or not does not make a difference to the community...Whether you got your gear legit or you bought it doesnt change anything...L2 comes down to who can win in a pvp. I played WoW, but never did RMT, because from lvl 20 on I was making more money than i could spend at the AH, and my friend gave me a mount at lvl 40. In GW i think i bought some fist weapons for my assassin or whatever, because i randomly came across a site with them and was like geez...only $4 and they are WAY better than what im using...but i was a noob, just hit lvl 20...and ended up quitting that game like a week later.

And all NCSoft has to do is get a team (like the one for botting) and actively search for people RMTing. I know what GM's can do in L2...ive seen gm functions on L2 private servers. They can trace any item back to its origin. They could search on ebay for Sword of Blah on X server. Then when the item is sold, scan for any trades of that item, look for ones from a character with a stupid name (possibly lvl 1) that made the item traded for NOTHING...check on ebay if it was a regular seller, then trace that IP and ban both buyer and seller...only if it can be 100% confirmed. It can be a lot of work, when I played earth and beyond, westwood actively checked ebay and currency sites for RMT, they once banned the leader of the biggest guild on any server (over 1000 members) for selling a weapon on ebay, and it was rumoured that westwood actually bought the item themselves on ebay. They had a really good dev team and staff in that game. I once remember someone from my guild asked a player to transfer items for him, the guy took the items, then ignored the person and went into a region my guildy couldnt enter. He petitioned a GM, the GM checked chat and trade logs to confirm that it was a Xfer, and gave the items back to my guildy and gave that guy a warning...althought that kind of policing might be overkill.

and no, I do not like slipknot, why do you ask?

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Calindor

you are taking this way too serious, its just a video game...RMTing in a game is a lot different than refusing to recycle or something.

It was a logical comparison, not a direct one. I've even described the context in the next sentence, so this shouldn't be too hard to understand.

Anyway, you're ****ing me off, since you don't even want to understand anything and don't even actually answer any arguments. You also keep talking about L2, which has nothing to do with the sentence you've expressed I'm referring to.
I'll stop trying to convince you here and for now and instead hope that you've at least learned something, cause there's nothing coming but cheap excuses about private servers (who the crap is talking about private servers...) and weak explainations which have nothing to do with the impeachment I am making. So there's currently no point in going on, since you just keep wriggling like a worm.

and no, I do not like slipknot, why do you ask?

Just being curious.

[Livvy]

As an operator, I can safely say the only "gaming" method to end to RMT is by developing self-regulated models using either micro transactions or third party currency sales. Some Asian MMO developers have already started working with large RMT websites in order to establish their own RMT platform.

Then they have to consider that . As it is now : they're pouring resources and time into combatting botters and farmers with little or no effect ( due to the demand issue ) . Imagine if they could use all that time and resources on the game itself . I always feel it's kinda of a waste to even have to spend time on these things .

I think we can all agree on one simple thing : you can never win the fight against goldsellers as long as there's demand . If the onle effective way to get rid of goldsellers entails selling the gold yourself , so be it .

[Isley]

Game developers spending time to combat RMT is an economy in itself. You'd be surprised how well they market it.

Banning 10,000 farmer accounts guarantees another 10,000 will be created. Game CEO wants a new Nissan? Ban 5,000. Penthouse in the city? Ban 30,000. <-- although it won't always be like this, there are cases where that's the end result.

Somehow I get the feeling I'm about to get banned here...

[2aimless]

Originally Posted by Calindor

you are taking this way too serious, its just a video game...

Yes and your taking it to serious because you spend money in that to be better instead of just enjoying it. Meanwhile your fcking behavior destroys the fun of other players. IT EFFECTS OTHER PLAYERS DUDE CANT YOU GET THAT?

You will be able to level faster to take important bosses and spots more easily...

And like you said the 70% will never get to the top because they dont even have a chance vs all these botters and buyers...

Dont be such a mofo and stop doing everything to have your endgame fun for the costs of killing the fun for other players and killing the game.


"If everyone is doing it ill do it too"

If everyone is a *** you are the biggest of them. just gtfo looser.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Isley

Game developers spending time to combat RMT is an economy in itself. You'd be surprised how well they market it.

Banning 10,000 farmer accounts guarantees another 10,000 will be created. Game CEO wants a new Nissan? Ban 5,000. Penthouse in the city? Ban 30,000. <-- although it won't always be like this, there are cases where that's the end result.

Somehow I get the feeling I'm about to get banned here...

Who cares about unimportant objectives facts when it's about ethical principles. I've said before that I don't care about the market crap and how well it works. Drugs sell well, too, but that doesn't mean it's okay. We can't get rid of people selling those, but we can be better than them (if everyone would think like that, there would be no demand to begin with). If you chose to be a loser, then you have to accept other people calling you like that, because you simply failed.
You're talking way too scientific and you take, in comparison to the way more important ethical principles, your scientific facts way too serious. People like that never change anything.

[Isley]

Originally Posted by Endrance

Who cares about unimportant objectives facts when it's about ethical principles. I've said before that I don't care about the market crap and how well it works. Drugs sell well, too, but that doesn't mean it's okay. We can't get rid of people selling those, but we can be better than them (if everyone would think like that, there would be no demand to begin with). If you chose to be a loser, then you have to accept other people calling you like that, because you simply failed.
You're talking way too scientific and you take, in comparison to the way more important ethical principles, your scientific facts way too serious. People like that never change anything.

This is reality: , this is ethics:

Calamvs Gladio Fortior; "The pen is mightier than the sword" --Edward Bulwer-Lytton.

Paper is a good substitute for pen, in this case

[Calindor]

your "fun and game experience" will already be gone if that is the case when a huge percentage of players are already buying gear and currency on the internet and not getting punished. Call me a sheep or whatever you want, but I dont want there to be RMTing, but if I see that people are doing it, and getting ahead, rather than mope in self pitty...i will too. No matter how much you ***** and complain, and no matter how much sand gets in your ******, the RMT problem is not going go away unless the company does something about it. So learn to live with it, or quit and find a new game to protest. L2 is probably the most exploited MMO out there, and L1 + L2 have number 2 and 3 spots in best selling MMORPG's ever...would it be different if the gameplay was legit? Well I would atleast hope it would have done better in the western world.

And my point about the private server was, no matter what you think of RMTing and botting...if you go play L2 right now on retail, you will get nowhere unless you do so. Everywhere you go you will see bots, and every high level player you see will have either botted and ebayed for gear, or bought his account.

If RMTing becomes a problem in Aion (which i hope it doesnt), you refusing to do it wont make it go away. And it doesnt work the other way, the problem has to be stopped by NCSoft...countless people on L2 have made petitions to stop it, and posted screen shots of botters on L2 forums just to have them deleted by NCSoft.

[Endrance]

I see you guys know nothing about moral, ethical principles and true solidarity. You're one of the main reasons for social MMOs to fail and people who think like you about reality (this goes rather to Isley) are the reason why humankind is the only being that fails being useful on this planet. I don't feel bad calling you losers, not in the slightest.

Reality is changable, though I'm certain, you two won't be a part of success.

[Kaldur]

[Livvy]

I see you guys know nothing about moral, ethical principles and true solidarity

I'd never buy ingame gold from some goldselling outfit for any game .But one has to face reality some folks are doing it and discuss how to get rid of that . You can have high ethics ( the drugs analogy springs to mind ) but that doesn't change the situation,nor does eradicating the folks selling the drugs ( you have to do that obviously ,but if you only do that you're closing your eyes ) .

The only way to tackle stuff like this is to go to the very root of the problem . In the case of someone using drugs you have to examine why this is the case and work on that . You can pretty much wipe Colombia or any other country from the face of the earth, but the addicted folks wiill then find another supplier .

Ethics are fine- I hope I have some - but a sense of reality isn't bad either . Goldsellers are there because folks want them to be there - preferably not too visible . If there was no market there would be no bots or goldsellers .


The only way to get rid of that is to work the problem at each side : examine why there's a demand for gold and try to do something about that and trying to get rid of the goldsellers themselves .Doing just one of those doesn't solve a thing.

If you can't beat them , join them is also a completely viable option . You see more and more f2p MMO's popping up where you have ingame stores. It's quite apparent what the reasoning behind this is . They have full control of the economy that way . I'm not advocating that this should be the case for Aion, but if all else fails sell the gold yourselves,NCsoft .....

[2aimless]

Stop talking about L2 Calindor your just a looser and an idiot...
Your a part of "everyone" so stop talking about that others start and you will follow. Just die. Be so nice. Die not hard but fast and silenty.

If you see someone spamming around he used rmt then screenshot it and send it to gms instead to hope for the possibility that you can make your "life" easy...

This is the last post in this thread because you fool dont even know what honor or ethics are and like many ppl already said: this thread failed

[Glacius]

Well this thread is certainly spiraling out of control...

I guess this is what you get when you mix ethics and internet anonymity.