Bots and Gold sellers

[Endrance]

:edit:

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Kaldur

Nothing personal End, was just funny to see the contradiction. Ironic

Only if you don't take it as it was meant, which makes this personal. Stop spam pls.

[2aimless]

Originally Posted by Cyclonis

I feel ya...that is the suck for sure. I am going back to my WoW account till Aion comes out. I tried Cabal, but, For me it is too slow. Keona can't stand it either soooo in short, I don't play games without her. We are gonna pvp some and goof around till then. If anyone wants to find me I am the only 1337 Orc Shaman named Cyclonis

its to slow since f2p... if you get a premium account you will have old leveling/skilling/drop rate and you get 50% extra if you buy a 1day boost item for 2dollars -.-

[Calindor]

Exactly, its the design of the game, but there are still ways to decrease and almost eliminate RMTing in a game like WoW or L2, it would just require a lot of effort from the video game company.

I dont know about you, but I enjoy a pvp based game much more when I'm winning. In Aion there are going to be clans that have members playing 10 hours a day, hit over 75% of their members on everyday, and ~90% online setting alarm clocks for important events. They are going to log out alt chars on extra accounts to check for raid bosses, constantly roam the abyss in search of enemies to kill for pvp rewards, etc... (I plan on being on one of these clans ) Its going to be serious stuff, and if it comes down to RMTing being common in the game, that could very well be a deciding factor of the strongest people/clans too. Of course your skill level doesnt change with RMTing or gear, that is completely independant, its just an advantage...and of course people who don't RMT will still end up being better than many or all who do. So I hope Aion doesnt end up like that, but if it does I'm either going to quit or do it myself (because i dont think $50 once or twice on a game I'm putting the majority of my spare time into is a big deal)....broken record :S

[Birdman]

Originally Posted by Endrance

I simply don't want to be forced to invest more real money into a game (not just because of the money, but because it's stupid) just because the developers failed and RMT *****es from ahole companies are doing the "work" (the failure of the game/laziness of developers) for me.
All that just to be on the top list?

This is what it stems from. Developers f*cking up. If the game is fun enough, sure I'll do it.

You must have a problem with your self-confidence if something broken up as that actually satisfies you and makes you think you "succeeded", since you in fact failed at playing the actual game, even if some parts suck. You either quit or go through them, otherwise you're a weak loser going for the wrong goal, making your own personal rules.

Reach more please.

I'm not ebaying a character here, I'm buying a sword because I'm too lazy to farm money. That time I save by not farming money I use towards learning my class better. You see how that works out?
- You see, the point is. Developers and Publishers are supposed to make the rules for their game (be making them as they are).
You are not supposed to do that. But you still do it. Other people are trying to play fair and go through the **** parts, because RMTing overall is a ****ing bad thing to do and to have in a game.
Since this means that you're ONLY thinking about yourself, you are weak and you fail at playing the game. Got that?

I don't see how it makes me weak, but I do agree that I'm only thinking about myself. When I play a game I play for my own enjoyment, I couldn't care less about how much XxAzNaSsAsSiNxX is having fun. Yeah I'm not supposed to do it, I realize that. But since when does anyone always follow the rules?

EDIT: Forgot to mention, when I'm playing the game is when I don't care. On this forum I do like seeing other peoples opinions. But when I rmt I don't think about how tihs will affect you or any other person for that matter. That's just the truth. Is it negative for the "community"? Yes, I'm not denying that. But I'm not such a purist that I wont do it. The way I see it is I look at the opportunity cost of RMTing. It's far less than the money I may spend buying a piece of equipment, so that's how I make my decision.

Birdman, let me ask you. Do you hack other people's accounts? Or if you can't, would you do it if you could?

Sure why not. If they have something I like I wouldn't have any qualms about taking it.

- That's the main point. I don't want to waste hundreds of dollars on that game. Many people cannot or don't want to foolishly pay that much for a game. And why should being one of the best players in a game be about how much real money you want to invest? That's fking stupid

EXACTLY. That is the problem of the developers. If being the best requires that, sure why not. Once again, I don't care about what you want or don't want, that is the furthest thing from my mind.

You shouldn't "have to" waste money on a game to be on the top list or get the best gear in a reasonable amount of time. If you have to, the game fails. If the game fails, you quit. If you don't and cheat, you fail just as much as the game does by allowing the developers to keep it running. It's illogical, unless you're a complete ego-maniac.

You do realize most of the main MMO's have a massive farming problem right? I suppose everyone quits those games because they "fail". We don't like in black and white kid.

Being an ego-maniac is sick again, hence it's wrong and you should do something about it. See, it always ends up in me being right.

LMAO. Just like your gamepad argument? Ahahahahaha. W/e, get Diablo in here I'm sure he'd have a good laugh from this too ;p.

You have anything else? Take it to PM's, nothing new is coming of our little "debate" ;p.

Lol Calindor, we seem to think alike. I suppose it's the L2 talking.

[Calindor]

Yes it is definitely L2 talking lol...but i'm slightly different. I'm not for harming any other players experience. I don't give a damn what xXxAsSaSsInXx is feeling in the game, however, I don't want to be the cause of someone else's discomfort or unenjoyment in a game. If its something in game like me repeatedly killing him, well I hope thats a 2 way street...we play games like these for fun and competition..if i am beating him, hopefully that will encourage him to get better and beat me.

I have never ever, nor will i ever think about hacking or scamming someone. I do not support it, I dont condone friends/clan mates doing it either and if I did, I wouldnt be able to live with it on my conscience, just as stealing someone's material possessions/money.

Maybe me being open to RMT looks bad or like I'm purposely ruining other people's experience for my own benefit (which may be the case), but like I said earlier...I would only do it if the problem was already there and not getting removed. You would be naive to think the community itself can solve a problem like that when the game design, the way it was ran and the community itself led to a RMT problem. I'm all for a legit experience...but when the game comes out there is absolutely nothing I can do but play legitly to have a stance against RMT/exploit. If it ends up there it is out of my control. If i'm still playing legit and the problem is still there, well then I'm not changing anything.

[Birdman]

Originally Posted by Calindor

I have never ever, nor will i ever think about hacking or scamming someone. I do not support it, I dont condone friends/clan mates doing it either and if I did, I wouldnt be able to live with it on my conscience, just as stealing someone's material possessions/money.

You see, the question was so loaded that it wasn't funny. I wouldn't go out of my way to get some peoples account info. If I'm not willing to farm, why would I want to trick someone into giving me their password?


[qote]Maybe me being open to RMT looks bad or like I'm purposely ruining other people's experience for my own benefit (which may be the case), but like I said earlier...I would only do it if the problem was already there and not getting removed.[/quote]
Exactly. So far this has been a huge issue with almost EVERY mmo that has come out.

You would be naive to think the community itself can solve a problem like that when the game design, the way it was ran and the community itself led to a RMT problem. I'm all for a legit experience...but when the game comes out there is absolutely nothing I can do but play legitly to have a stance against RMT/exploit. If it ends up there it is out of my control. If i'm still playing legit and the problem is still there, well then I'm not changing anything.

EXACTLY. Calindor, I want to make out with you right now.

[Livvy]

So far this has been a huge issue with almost EVERY mmo that has come out.

If the Aion-devs make sure the very good stuff can be obtained in numerous ways- all of which can be challenging but FUN ( not like in WoW: two ways to obtain stuff , raids or PvP : that should be TWO forms of PvE and PvP and if at all possible through crafting as well ) - and not just by running raids etc. I don't perceive it becoming an issue .

The problem with most MMO's too date is that they are extremely limited in how you can acquire stuff ( either the price is extremely high or there's only "one way" to get it ) : that is a design flaw , in my opinion. Putting more emphasis on crafting is also very wise without the need to endlessly grind for materials . If the end-result is very gratifying ,folks will take the crafting far more serious.

And also: make absolutely sure folks can upgrade their armor with cash to spare at the appropriate levels .

[Cyclonis]

Its not one person making a difference. Its a group of people or people as a whole that stand together to make the difference possible. If everyone thought, screw it. Why vote, I can't make a difference anyway. Then no one would ever vote and nothing would change. If you always look at is as *its there and other people are doing it.....why not* then you are no better than the people selling the currency anyway. Its bad and wrong just like hacking someones account. You, personally may not be hacking other accounts and stealing their gear, but, you are helping build the road that leads there.

If everyone thought * I am done with littering and started picking the crap up instead.* The world would be a better place for it. Its always been this way...always will be.

You can make a difference.

These are my thoughts on the subject at hand. This is how I play, and this is how I live.
By my own values and morals. Never to follow some criminal just because he gets away with it.

[Ecronyte]

I don't have much respect for the RMTers. But I understand where they are coming from. I would not personally play another game that requires RMT to succeed. I'm done with that. But many people will. And if NCsoft doesn't do enough to combat RMT, if the game mechanics encourage RMT (I'm lookin at you L2), you can't expect people to play ethically and not buy currency. Professional athletes will take steroids, FPS players will use aimbot, politicians will rig elections, MMO players will buy gold. Yes the world would be a better place if everyone was morally pure, and always did the right thing. But..plainly.. they won't. The game has to be designed with this in mind, and the developers will have to be ready to aggressively police the servers.

I think Livvy nailed it. You can't design the game to totally eliminate RMT, or cheaters, its just not gonna happen. But you can certainly design in such a way that the game is playable/enjoyable for the average, legit player. And not as appealing to RMT or RMT customers.
-binding items
-many ways to obtain items
-skill based PvP (maybe with less emphasis on gear)
-reasonable ways to earn money. (and not making the game overly financially demmanding)

couple these things with tenacious banning of bots/farmers/cheaters/etc. And you will have a very tolerable game. It won't be free from RMT or cheaters, but it won't be ruled by them either.

[Cyclonis]

Originally Posted by Ecronyte

-binding items
-many ways to obtain items
-skill based PvP (maybe with less emphasis on gear)
-reasonable ways to earn money. (and not making the game overly financially demmanding)

couple these things with tenacious banning of bots/farmers/cheaters/etc. And you will have a very tolerable game. It won't be free from RMT or cheaters, but it won't be ruled by them either.

Indeed!!

[2aimless]

Originally Posted by Calindor

Yes it is definitely L2 talking lol...but i'm slightly different. I'm not for harming any other players experience. I don't give a damn what xXxAsSaSsInXx is feeling in the game, however, I don't want to be the cause of someone else's discomfort or unenjoyment in a game. If its something in game like me repeatedly killing him, well I hope thats a 2 way street...we play games like these for fun and competition..if i am beating him, hopefully that will encourage him to get better and beat me.

He might see no other solution but using rmt too...

Youre harming every players experience. If you put all time and effort into a game and still are not in the toplist because people using unfair methods to get to the top then you will be disappoint and it makes you feel bad...

You feel like "Oh im crazy mother****er i got life and still got a good char hahaha"

You dont encourage ppl to get better you steal their hope to be one of the best if they dont CHEAT LIKE YOU DO.

Again: I know you might feel that your not that big a**hole but fact is that you are that. The Top is always dominated by some and if 3 or 4 are cheating it could already be more then 5%. Now the best are always the goal other ppl struggle for. And they see you cheating. And so some see no other possibility to get to the top. Its sad that people are to weak to follow their own ethics like you.

You dislike RMT but if others doing it you dont care about YOUR OWN OPPINION.

You know i think that you hate yourself. Maybe your small and sick and whatever or just dont like yourself because youre like you...

[Sovrath]

Originally Posted by Ecronyte

I don't have much respect for the RMTers. But I understand where they are coming from. I would not personally play another game that requires RMT to succeed. I'm done with that. But many people will. And if NCsoft doesn't do enough to combat RMT, if the game mechanics encourage RMT (I'm lookin at you L2), you can't expect people to play ethically and not buy currency. Professional athletes will take steroids, FPS players will use aimbot, politicians will rig elections, MMO players will buy gold. Yes the world would be a better place if everyone was morally pure, and always did the right thing. But..plainly.. they won't. The game has to be designed with this in mind, and the developers will have to be ready to aggressively police the servers.

I think Livvy nailed it. You can't design the game to totally eliminate RMT, or cheaters, its just not gonna happen. But you can certainly design in such a way that the game is playable/enjoyable for the average, legit player. And not as appealing to RMT or RMT customers.
-binding items
-many ways to obtain items
-skill based PvP (maybe with less emphasis on gear)
-reasonable ways to earn money. (and not making the game overly financially demmanding)

couple these things with tenacious banning of bots/farmers/cheaters/etc. And you will have a very tolerable game. It won't be free from RMT or cheaters, but it won't be ruled by them either.

Actually, you can design a game that bypasses RMT. Just don't incorporate an economy or trading.

Of course there are players who live to craft and sell (and thus the game wouldn't be for them) but it could be done.

Whether or not this would hinder the game, well it depends. I don't play to craft and sell. Hate it. It's so tedious as to make the game not worth it. So a game with quests and then a form of pvp that I would enjoy would be enough. Even grinding is fine as I'm not adversely affected by it.

But there are players who need that trading, crafting component.

As far as RMT, I'm not for it but it makes sense if you look at it like "I hate dealing with the economy, there are people out there who are offering to alleviate that part of the gameplay, so I'll pay 20 bucks and not have to deal with it".

Suddenly the game becomes less drudgery and more fun. For 20 bucks (or whatever one pays). So one can easily see why people do it.

However, you then get players who work very hard, put in a lot of effort and they are barely achieving what those who are buying currency are getting. That creates a bitter player base. Many people aren't willing to pay extra money just to be competitive.

And look at L2. It has potential to be a PvP'ers dream game. except the blasted economy. Maybe even the leveling in some cases. But pvp'ers want to enter a game and compete based on their skills. One can say "go to a fps game... mmo's are different'". But the reality is that they don't have to be. Look at Huxley (if that ever comes out). It seems to be a bit more pvp heavy and a bit less about crafting.

Then again, one can say that it is the development of the character that helps make mmo's more complex.

It's a hard call. There are clearly people who would rather have some parts of a game and don't want others. If someone offers them an "out" for a small amount of money, then they will take it.

Maybe if game developers actually made the economy fun and crafting fun (I've yet to see a game that had fun crafting to my definition) then perhaps you would see less RMT.

[2aimless]

anyone noticed that tags for this thread are "dumb" and "poop"? xD

[Kaldur]

Doesn't surprise me. Most of the thread is a battle to force people into thinking some way or another...kind of like a debate on "Which religion is better" or "Politics"...this thread might go on and on forever, making it, pointless ...so yeah, "Dumb" and "Poop" are good tags