Bots and Gold sellers

[Calindor]

the first reply was stating that everyone and their mothers can bypass gameguard...it might as well not even be there.


I wont be playing any game that makes playing less efficient the longer you do it, whether i want to play 1 or 50 hours a week, I dont think mmorpg's should be like that, if you dont like a game like that, then you shouldnt be playing a mmorpg

There are already anti-bot features built into the game like mobs evolving to be comes stronger as you kill them repeatedly...If you had looked at any brief descriptions of aion they would have said this.

Also aion is generally quest driven, therefore its hard to get bot programs that can do much more than target a mob and attack....I have known of some pretty advanced ones in L2 that will do your complete class transfer quest for you at lvl 40, however they are hard to find and VERY expensive scripts to get.

[eternalchaos]

Originally Posted by Calindor

I have known of some pretty advanced ones in L2 that will do your complete class transfer quest for you at lvl 40, however they are hard to find and VERY expensive scripts to get.

damn... I didn't have any idea there were bots that detailed. That is just flat out crazy. What puzzles me though is; why bot something like that? I mean isn't the idea to enjoy the game and physically do certain things . I'd understand farming for gear or money; but you think someone would actually want to play the game not just bot it all.

[Sovrath]

Originally Posted by eternalchaos

damn... I didn't have any idea there were bots that detailed. That is just flat out crazy. What puzzles me though is; why bot something like that? I mean isn't the idea to enjoy the game and physically do certain things . I'd understand farming for gear or money; but you think someone would actually want to play the game not just bot it all.

I take it you've never been through one of L2's second class change quests?

[Aoshi1]

Originally Posted by Sovrath

I take it you've never been through one of L2's second class change quests?

Lol, yeah, they were indeed a pain in the ***. It was ok though, because once you got it, you could talk about how much you went through to get there, and you had earned it. I just can't see how people dump all this rl cash into their characters, just to bypass elements of the game itself, things that were meant to be experienced. Oh well, I guess some people do whatever it takes to stay competitive, no matter the cost. I for one, will be going through it all, and doing everything legit. Sure, it will take time, but it will all be done by my pains and hard work, and will be earned. Sorry for the rant all.

[Endrance]

Actually, as soon as MMORPGs reach a state which has no absolute boring, realistically relatively ineffective parts anymore (I usually just quit those games - the main intention of most people who bot is to "skip" the terribly long and very single-sided part of the game which just isn't worth all the effort and real time which could have been used better), bots will decrease drastically. If the "work" is fun, why make bots steal it (of course there will always be those little wannabe's who want to get big without doing anything for it, but those could actually be kept down as an exception)?
I wonder if this game will be Aion. There are MMOs which got near this state, but none didn't have this one-sided uber boring, but necessary crap-parts (casual or hardcore doesn't matter - it's worthless parts and failures in any way).

The deliberations of the thread opener are basically correct and I've thought about them myself alot when playing MMOs, while being unable to understand how the people who made this game couldn't think of anything better when even I (who doesn't make games) was able to.

Originally Posted by myself about two years ago on some random MMO forum

As soon as a game implements gameguard, you know that it's just being used as an excuse for the failures of the game, which makes the game itself basically fail.

[Calindor]

Yeah it is pretty crazy, they run to all the spots in the game, talk to the right NPC's, kill only the right mob's, even talk to the gatekeepers and teleport to the right spots.


IMO there basically is no purpose to exping in L2, its not fun, you basically kill the same mobs over and over, its only point is to increase your level. The game is not about levelling up or questing, it's about politics, war, alliances and making your own world.

It is very stupid, and if another l2 grindfest style game came out, I probably wouldnt play it. There's no reason they couldnt have made the Exping aspect of L2 fun/enjoyable, and it would not have hindered any other aspects of the game (NCSoft is a really stupid company in some ways, also *cough* anchor/paralyze *cough* ). Exping in L2 is a chore, its as simple as that, it can feel like a job you hate, but you do it anyway :S...I can log on for 5 hours in a day, be busy and active through out and not exp once, its just the way the game is...However I do enjoy the occasional IT, 4sep or mage party to help others in my clan/alliance out....But in general levelling up in l2 is NOT fun or enjoyable once you get past the initial aspect of being in a new game.

My clan leader on L2 was one of the first warcryers to hit lvl 78 (when they get that amazing buff chant of victory)...He got a good armor set DC light so he could keep the buff up nonstop), but other then that he used a lvl 40 weapon and lvl 20 jewels while he spent pretty much everynight running Exp parties for the clan for hours at a time so we could all level up, and get all the gear....But being a warcryer is an easy job, he only has to buff every 20 mins and do cov every 5 mins, I think he spent 75% of his L2 time playing guitar hero

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Calindor

Exping in L2 is a chore, its as simple as that, it can feel like a job you hate, but you do it anyway ...I can log on for 5 hours in a day, be busy and active through out and not exp once, its just the way the game is...

The "doing it anyway" part of that sentence is what I personally couldn't ever get over. As soon as I realize how stupid it'd be to keep on going I usually just quit. If I would've kept going on I would've felt very stupid. I would also never get the idea to use bots (cheat) to compensate the failures of the game a bit to be able to enjoy the better parts (not because it doesn't make sense - since it would - but that I am principally against any kind of cheating).
A game isn't life. You don't have to do it. You have the option just to chose another, maybe to keep searching for something which isn't as stupid (if we keep playing failures they'll think they're doing most of it right and probably wont change anything much). Well... that's probably how I got into playing alot of MMORPGs and got more and more into it, yet just to be judging any of them.

EDIT: Sorry for so much editing.

[JunSakurada]

Originally Posted by Endrance

The "doing it anyway" part of that sentence is what I personally couldn't ever get over. As soon as I realize how stupid it'd be to keep on going I usually just quit. If I would've kept going on I would've felt very stupid.
A game isn't life. You don't have to do it. You have the option just to chose another, maybe to keep searching for something which isn't as stupid. Well... that's probably how I got into playing alot of MMORPGs and got more and more into it, judging any of them so far.

Yes its quite an interesting phenomenon, now that I think back on the times I cant believe I was so irrational when it came to this. For the most part L2 wasn't about fun it was about sucking in its customers for as much as they could. I'm done falling for that though, live and learn I suppose.

[Calindor]

Originally Posted by Endrance

I would also never get the idea to use bots (cheat) to compensate the failures of the game a bit to be able to enjoy the better parts

I somewhat agree with you...thats why I play on a L2 server with x5 exp/money, and 100% bot free anti-bot scripting. But with that being said, the better parts of L2 are amazing, there is nothing out there that compares, and if you can get past the bad aspects of the game, its an amazing experience.



But thats also why L2/NCSoft ended up failing, along with some really stupid mistakes made by the horrible branch known as NCSoft Austin, and I hope Aion will fix these problems. WoW's success was a spit on the face to NCSoft for having views that MMORPG's would not be successful in the western world (the asian l2 servers dont have these problems that the english L2 servers have...). We can only hope they learned from their mistakes and fix them with Aion, even though it is going to be a completely different game.

[Aoshi1]

Oh god the grinding. I remember hearing friends online when we were playing...They would say "Wow, I got up two percent today, after a few hours"...it crushedme because I knew that would be me someday. I dunno why I stuck through it, and Calindor and the others are right, you start to look at it like a job. I would get home from my rl job, set up with a couple sodas, something quick to eat, and play my *** off until I either fell asleep, or someone kicked me off the PC. I am glad to be away from it, and I hope AION isn't like L2 in this regard. We shall see though...

[Calindor]

I think someone in my clan used the expression when someone's friend was interested in the server we play on..."don't do it, supremel2 is like free crack!"...but then other people were like, "whos gonna turn down free crack!?" lol

[Aoshi1]

lol, right on. I never tried any of the private servers, is it that much better? I remember when they shut down L2extreme though, that was a HUGE deal.

[Calindor]

No generally they aren't better, but the one I play on is...its far better than retail, but 95% of them suck. I played on L2Extreme, it also sucked.

[Bibliophile]

Originally Posted by Sovrath

naw, that won't work. You could just grief someone all day long by spamming war invites. Or getting numerous toons to do it.

As for the poster's idea for allowing players to deal with bots ingame without penalty. First off, games have penalties. Players moan and complain if a death penalty is too lenient. And if you allow them the ability to train mobs on bots then you also allow them to train on players. Not a big deal if it is a more hardcore pvp game. More of a big deal if it is not. also, what about clans/alliances who actively bot. Aren't they going to try to stop players from hurting the farmers that supply them?

One of our former IT guys used to write bots for EQ. He thought it was the funniest thing and lived for it. Since others share the same idea, it is hard to get players to just rise up and fight bots because they are also going to get players who want the bots.



Again, in a pvp game might not be an issue. Or more correctly, a hardcore one. Get a game that is not hardcore where there are players who don't want to pvp or want pvp on limited terms and you suddenly lose a segment of your market.

Of course, you can make it so items are only bound on one toon and that money can only go to npc traders with items that have fixed prices. But you then get a segment of the community who will complain that there is no real econony therefore no depth therefore not fun.

Short of being extremely strict with how a game works, Elliot is correct. Bots are here to stay.

No one has made hack proof software. Now, couple that with people who have a lot of money and know that there is a lot more money to be made in online trading. They are going to hire out of work programmers who need the money so that they can constantly work around any programs that stop bots.

And in many ways you can spot bots. Of course, just because someone is deleveling on a guard it doesn't make them a bot. Players do actually do this so they can stay in a certain level range. However, a toon that follows the same route over and over again automatically is more likely a bot.

However, now that means you have to hire workers to constantly show up on each server in many areas so that they can remove these bots. That's quite a lot of money. Especially when you take into account health insurance and benefits.

And in the end, people bot because they don't want to spend time raising in lvl or working for money. These are things they find distastful. I remember being in a L2 raid where some of the more hardcore pvp'ers in the other alliance were complaining that they had to be there. They wanted to be out pvp'ing not raiding. This is understandable. Especially if you live for pvp conflict. And of course, (my opinion) raiding in L2 is a bit boring.

So get players who don't like crafting, selling, working the market and you are going to find more players who will invest 15 dollars or so to help them with money.

IN the end, these online games attract all sorts of people and they all have different ideas of what is fun/not fun, right/wrong as well as what they want in game.

So either you have very strict and limited gameplay or there will be more bots.

Also, wow does not have less bots. They might be more proactive in stopping them but it seems that if I signed up for the game I could go to any server and actually order gold for either horde or alliance. Given the amount of servers as well as doubling that for factions I would say they have quite a few bots.

Just because you can't see them doens't mean they aren't there.

I just want to be clear to this person that I'm not saying that it should be the players responsibility to deal with bots. i'm saying that if Aion does use GameGuard the players should have the ability to fight bots. I know that its imposibble to deal with all bots, I just dont want this really promising game to be over run with so many bots that it ruins the game for legitimate players , if players made it difficult for botters in the begining they may give up on Aion and just exploit another MMO. Sure, I'd prefer that botters quit being lazy and actually get a job but I know thats too much to hope for.

Originally Posted by Sieg Archaon

Grab your torches and pitchforks!
Were going on a Bot-hunting-rampage
muahhahaha
I regularly did that on L2 ^^ and other games with open pvp and loads of bots.
I hate bots, they really mess up the game.
As for NC-soft, i do think they learned alot in these years.

And botting in Aion will not be that easy, to what i have seen, they have special things implemented against bots; like the thing when you kill to much monsters in 1 area, a giant monster appears to take revenge. I think this system will be really good.

And if there are to much bots >_> Bot-killing-event; The one who kills most wins ^^

-Arc.

WoW! I didnt know about the monster revenge thing,it not only has the potnetial to stop (some) bots but also allows more opportunities for Rare Items (im not very good at getting them but I love the idea of them,rare items)

[Slayra]

Originally Posted by Saito

bots on NC softs lineage 2? NAW! why would you think that!

[IMAGES]

Lets hope this will never happen to Aion...

I'm sorry to say, but that dwarf parade looks AWESOME (=