Abyss Points / Casting Bar

[Steb Starwin]

So, I actually saw a few older video's recently. And I was surprised that they had a different casting bar back in the day. It was very Aion like and felt very Immersive comparatively to the very basic WoW like 1 we have now. It made It kinda look like you were actually weaving a spell together. So I would Love to see this old casting bar put back in for our client.

You can see a video of the casting bar here.

YouTube - aion e3 2006

Secondly, Abyss Points.

I made a post during the first CB Regarding Abyss points and how they degenerate when somone has engaged in combat recently. I stated that this would cause a major problem because abyss points would be even harder to obtain.

Basically If you walk up on a Player, He got done killing a mob 3 minutes ago, And you kill him. You will get 50 Abyss points rather then say 480 for his friend right next to him who hasn't recently engaged in combat with an NPC.

Now the problem with this is that it doesn't just subtract the amount of HP done by the mob and give you corresponding abyss points like it would if it was another player doing the damage. Instead it just significantly stunts it completely.

Now in the Abyss it is a PvPvE Zone, You not only have to worry about PC's jumping you in the middle of your PvP fights, But you also have to watch out for NPC's, And Vice-Versa. It seems very silly to me that being in a PvPvE Zone, you are penalized for killing someone who was doing or IS doing PvE content. Standing there watching them and waiting for them to finish there fight is obviously a very silly concept.

So I propose that it gets changed to the same formula used if multiple PC's attack a single target outside of group, the same formula used if multiple PC's or NPC's attack another NPC. Since PC --> NPC --> PC seems to calculate completely different.

Now what this would mean is instead of killing someone at 100% Hp, who just attacked a mob, just finished a fight, or is sitting around resting after a fight. Say they are engaged in Combat, They have 80% of there life remaining,

They CC the mob and you kill them. They would have given a Base of 100 Abyss points. The mob did 20%, Therefore you would gain 80 Abyss points...rather then the 2 or 8 you would get from killing said PC engaged in combat that would be worth around 100 Abyss Points.

When you enter and fight in the Abyss, You take a certain risk, which is the threat of not only PvP or just PvE, But BOTH elements, and they should be treated as such. Especially since the entire abyss is flooded with NPC's and is virtually impossible to avoid them when you go out to PvP since most are Aggressive.

That being said, some may not see this as a big issue, But the huge amount of abyss points required for items and rank make people turn to Kill Trading, Exploitation, Farming Abyss Guards Endlessly, and just recently, I was on the Chinese server and had the pleasure of Witnessing this.



What this is, Is a large group of players Inside the Elyos Fortress, Killing people because they are fresh kills with no PvE recently. So That they can actually get Abyss points. They sit here and farm people with full Flight time pots, Killing everyone as they spawn, zone in, or try to leave the fort.

They do this because the current system promotes people to find other ways to effectively gain abyss points. Since killing people who are actually out in the abyss questing / looking for people reward you with literally a fraction of what these players inside the fortress will give you.





Here you will see a picture of players trading kills endlessly, This is another way of cheating the system to get Abyss Points, and its done constantly on the korean and chinese servers.

My system literally promotes the Absolute of fairness. You get the exact amount of Abyss Points Exactly Proportionate to the amount of work you did. If you come up and snag someone at 10% HP, You only get 10 vs 100.

In my opinion that's absolutely fair. You do more work, you get more reward, you do less work, you get **** for reward.

I know it was a wall of text and thanks for taking the time to read it. I believe this is a huge issue that needs to be addressed before launch to make Aion Successful in the US and EU, Since we are very critical of PvP, Especially since this game has a large PvP Focus.

Did a Mod Edit my post? And if so please inform me when you do so and Explain why. Putting back the material I had in before in case it was some kind of error.

[Dafydd]

Originally Posted by Stebthefirst

I made a post during the first CB Regarding Abyss points and how they degenerate when somone has engaged in combat recently. I stated that this would cause a major problem because abyss points would be even harder to obtain.

Basically If you walk up on a Player, He got done killing a mob 3 minutes ago, And you kill him. You will get 50 Abyss points rather then say 480 for his friend right next to him who hasn't recently engaged in combat with an NPC.

Now the problem with this is that it doesn't just subtract the amount of HP done by the mob and give you corresponding abyss points like it would if it was another player doing the damage. Instead it just significantly stunts it completely.

Now in the Abyss it is a PvPvE Zone, You not only have to worry about PC's jumping you in the middle of your PvP fights, But you also have to watch out for NPC's, And Vice-Versa. It seems very silly to me that being in a PvPvE Zone, you are penalized for killing someone who was doing or IS doing PvE content. Standing there watching them and waiting for them to finish there fight is obviously a very silly concept.

It's the risk/reward that PvPers are always going on about, if you want the big gains you have to take the big risks. Don't take the risk? Don't get the reward.

[Steb Starwin]

In the system I described you would be gaining exactly the ammount of abyss points for the exact ammount of work put in. You lose points for any part that you don't do.

[eduh]

Originally Posted by Stebthefirst

Standing there watching them and waiting for them to finish there fight is obviously a very silly concept.

actually, ive played alot of mmos with no such penalizing mechanics and still, i always waited for people to finish wtv they are doing before attacking them. im not interested in free frags.

so i think its pretty cool if they reward less points for easy kills, i mean, its not even that big of a penalty, if u wanna kill someone like that, your totally free to do it, u just get a smaller reward.

its a very cool mechanic actually, promotes real PversusP, instead of going around looking for free points.

[Steb Starwin]

Originally Posted by eduh

actually, ive played alot of mmos with no such penalizing mechanics and still, i always waited for people to finish wtv they are doing before attacking them. im not interested in free frags.

so i think its pretty cool if they reward less points for easy kills.

In most games thats the case, But that's not how it works in the abyss. It's almost impossible to move 2 feet without getting aggro'd by a mob on the ground. So its impossible to avoid. People also have limited flight time, so they need to attack from above when they have the chance...not sit there wasting flight time waiting for the person to finish. It's a PvPvE Zone, Its a completely new concept and Should be treated as such.

I'm sure you don't stand around and watch 2 people fighting and don't jump in to help your faction. That would be silly, The same rule should apply to Aion since its a PvPvE game. Its the price you pay for exping in the abyss, they stated it would be more dangerous and challenging, but then they turn around and baby the system.

[Dafydd]

Originally Posted by Stebthefirst

In the system I described you would be gaining exactly the ammount of abyss points for the exact ammount of work put in. You lose points for any part that you don't do.

Because a player at 50% is a free kill, you don't deserve even 50% of the maximum points.

-------------------------

Originally Posted by Stebthefirst

then they turn around and baby the system.

No they don't. You can take the free points or you can grow a set of balls and go for the big points. It's your call, if you're good enough the target is dead either way.

[eduh]

Originally Posted by Stebthefirst

In most games thats the case, But that's not how it works in the abyss. It's almost impossible to move 2 feet without getting aggro'd by a mob on the ground. So its impossible to avoid. People also have limited flight time, so they need to attack from above when they have the chance...not sit there wasting flight time waiting for the person to finish. It's a PvPvE Zone, Its a completely new concept and Should be treated as such.

I'm sure you don't stand around and watch 2 people fighting and don't jump in to help your faction. That would be silly, The same rule should apply to Aion since its a PvPvE game. Its the price you pay for exping in the abyss, they stated it would be more dangerous and challenging, but then they turn around and baby the system.

its not like your not getting points.

its just a way of promoting real PVP oriented events as opposed to going around looking for free frags cause its a so much easier way of 'grinding' ur AP.


i dont really have any experience in the abyss, but it does sound like a logical mechanic.

[Steb Starwin]

Originally Posted by Dafydd

Because a player at 50% is a free kill, you don't deserve even 50% of the maximum points.

-------------------------


No they don't. You can take the free points or you can grow a set of balls and go for the big points. It's your call, if you're good enough the target is dead either way.

A player at 50% is a free Kill? Really? We have potions in this game allowing us to get up to full HP instantaneously if we are jumped. On top of that I can come back from a fight with 50% hp and kill someone at 100%. Its considered Skill. And you shouldn't be letting yourself get that low if your in the abyss. On top of that you have to expect that people are always around you, If you play recklessly, You die and its your own fault not the person who found you in such terrible shape.

Have you even played in the abyss? Do you understand the Concept I'm explaining. It is a P v P v E game. It is not a PvP / PvE game. There is a very big difference. And it needs to be treated like one. The Baluar are a completely NPC controlled race, and will randomly attack you in the middle of a Siege, Does that mean that all the players should suddenly loose all there abyss points because an NPC started attacking? Obviously not.

Its not even just with players whom are in combat at the time, If they were in combat 3 minutes ago, and you stroll on up to them at 100% HP. Guess what, you get 8 Abyss points for risking your full abyss points against them. Sound's awesome doesn't it? On top of that, Unless you fall to your death with no recent PvP, You do not gain exp debt in the Abyss. it is obviously set up to allow PvPvE to take place.

Originally Posted by eduh

its not like your not getting points.

its just a way of promoting real PVP oriented events as opposed to going around looking for free frags cause its a so much easier way of 'grinding' ur AP.


I don't really have any experience in the abyss, but it does sound like a logical mechanic.

It sounds all good and dandy till you roll up on someone with 100% Hp, You kill them and get 8 Abyss points, And they kill you and you lose 400.

And ya, it's virtually no points. When you need 600,000 Abyss points for a single piece of Abyss gear at 50, And everyone's giving you 10 abyss points because they recently got aggro'd by a mob. Its a HUGE problem.

My system literally promotes the Absolute of fairness. You get the exact ammount of Abyss Points Exactly Proportionate to the amount of work you did. If you come up and snag somone at 10% HP, You only get 10 vs 100. How is this not fair people?

[eduh]

yes it might be a problem, i dont deny that.

it might be a problem as in, it takes too long to get the AP u want, but, its a problem for everyone, not just some people, so its not even unbalanced.

AP is a major part of the end game, they are not really supposed to be easy mode to get.


anyway, if it turns out to be a problematic mechanic it will be changed, but its a bit too soon to start complaining about something of this nature.

[Steb Starwin]

Originally Posted by eduh

yes it might be a problem, i dont deny that.

it might be a problem as in, it takes too long to get the AP u want, but, its a problem for everyone, not just some people, so its not even unbalanced.

AP is a major part of the end game, they are not really supposed to be easy mode to get.


anyway, if it turns out to be a problematic mechanic it will be changed, but its a bit too soon to start complaining about something of this nature.

You do relize that in both Korea and China it's so terrible Kill trading has become the international way of farming AP. This system has proven how broken it is when in both other regions nearly everyone is resorting to unsavory tactics to get abyss points.

Even if this was corrected, it would still take an insane ammount of work to get Abyss gear. Let me show you with some basic math.

Even if the system was corrected, and on average you get 500 Abyss Points per Kill.

600,000 / 500 = 1200 Kills, Without a Single death.

Now right now the average kill rewards anywhere from 1-60 Abyss points per kill, Unless of course you resort to unsavory tactics to get your Abyss points at its full worth.

So we'll average it out at about 30 AP Per kill. that puts us at 600,000 / 30 You would need 20,000 Kills without a Single death. That means you would have to kill every player on both factions 4 times without Dieing once to actually get even a Single piece of Abyss gear.

Now it seems like more of a problem doesn't it?

Here is a Picture to Further my Point of How Bad it is.

[Kawaii]

As far as the casting bar, I remember seeing that video a long time ago also. I like the look of it also but I can see how it not having an actual background could make it tough to really visualize how much time is left before the end of your spell cast. Not game breaking for me and there are other ways to show that but that is probably the point of a casting bar anyway, isn't it?
Ah well its pretty but its gone now so not much we can do about it

On the abyss point subject I would say that I can see how the current system is fair but also I can see somebody training themselves into a bunch of mobs and dying to prevent people following from getting many/any abyss points from them...which is sorta lame. Other then that, shrug.

[eduh]

Originally Posted by Stebthefirst

You do relize that in both Korea and China it's so terrible Kill trading has become the international way of farming AP. This system has proven how broken it is when in both other regions nearly everyone is resorting to unsavory tactics to get abyss points.

Even if this was corrected, it would still take an insane ammount of work to get Abyss gear. Let me show you with some basic math.

Even if the system was corrected, and on average you get 500 Abyss Points per Kill.

600,000 / 500 = 1200 Kills, Without a Single death.

Now right now the average kill rewards anywhere from 1-60 Abyss points per kill, Unless of course you resort to unsavory tactics to get your Abyss points at its full worth.

So we'll average it out at about 30 AP Per kill. that puts us at 600,000 / 30 You would need 20,000 Kills without a Single death. That means you would have to kill every player on both factions 4 times without Dieing once to actually get even a Single piece of Abyss gear.

Now it seems like more of a problem doesn't it?

Here is a Picture to Further my Point of How Bad it is.

first of all, i was only talking about the part where you get less points from people that are killing mobs. which seems pretty reasonable, probably needs some tweaking, i dont know.

as i said i dont know anything about abyss, or AP farming. and im not taking someone's exaggerated view on it.
maybe your right, maybe not so much. i have no clue.

the fact is that abyss gear is and will be hard to get, for everyone. this isnt news.

now, if the system doesnt work it will probably be changed, just like it was changed in wow.


but no matter what, this isnt the place nor time to discuss this. the game only goes live in a couple of months with the 1.5 patch, which has alot of new features and content. things might be slightly different, or maybe not.

fact is, we will have a much more objective view on the problem.


thx for alerting to this possible issue tho, ill certainly keep an eye on it.

-------------------------

btw your assuming that you also get that AP penalty during a 'siege' or those kind of events, but thats very likely not the case.
again, just speculating.

[Steb Starwin]

We should let players come in and get slammed with issues, rather then fixing the issues that we know already exist? That doesn't sound very effective. In 1.1 1.2 and 1.3 there has not been a fix for it. If there was I wouldn't be posting about it. So I would think this IS the correct place to be talking about it, as well as the correct time.

[eduh]

besides the fact that the devs are on the other side of the world and dont really care what we think till the game goes live and we have something to back up our complaints.

there is people playing the game for quite some time in korea, china, wtv. if this is really that bad they probably hear about it everyday, we wont really make that much of a difference. imo

[Gicco]

Originally Posted by Stebthefirst

That being said, some may not see this as a big issue, But the huge amount of abyss points required for items and rank make people turn to Kill Trading, (Which can be eliminated by making the same ammount gained the same ammount lost for each kill / death.) Exploitation, Farming Abyss Guards Endlessly, and just recently, I was on the Chinese server and had the pleasure of Witnessing this.

Farming Abyss Guards is legit. -_-; Why do people think its cheating? lol

And the abyss point trading is for Chinese servers are those who are more PvE oriented and just want the Abyss gear or the title to make it look like they actually PvP. But when you meet them, in a 1v1, they fly away, run away, or bring a zerg to protect their rank.