Is kinah buying the norm these days?

[Taym]

Originally Posted by Sheen

I'm going to assume by gold farmers/botters you mean people doing it to sell for money? Since those are the ones who do the most farming. I can only speak from my L2 experience, but gold farmers don't buy anything, their money doesn't enter the economy until somebody buys it. If nobody bought the money, it wouldn't have an impact.

Ahh... but if it was not farmed then it could not be sold, and could not enter the market. The GM's CAN catch farmers before the kinah is sold, however there are issues and complications, such as their own terms of service. They can't simply ban them when they see them farming there for 12 hours they have to get 100% proof that they are "scripting" or that they belong to a company that intends to sell. So I guess for the most part they need the Kinah to be purchased before they can ban them.

[Draconais]

People who buy gold can't be bothered actually playing the game properly and therefore the game and their character means nothing to them. They should be shot... multiple times... with multiple guns..

[BackFlipLikeWo]

Originally Posted by Wreckus

If you can play Aion for 16 hours a day, you can do this anyway (by virtue of being able to farm for 16 hours a day).

If anything gold buying evens the playing field.

If someone works 8 hours a day, they can't make as much money as someone with no job that can play Aion for 16 hours a day. However, the ability to purchase gold allows for the working player to have equal footing with the 16 hour a day player.

Also, I've never seen this much delusion in one spot ever in my entire life.

[Dandune]

Originally Posted by Wreckus

This is inflation, it is caused by gold farmers/botters... not gold buyers.

If there is no demand, there is no need for supply.
So... no buyers means no farmers which means (almost) no bots.

[Taym]

Originally Posted by Dandune

If there is no demand, there is no need for supply.
So... no buyers means no farmers which means (almost) no bots.

The thing is its rediculously cheap for them to "farm" the way they set it up. All they need is their computers set up (one time cost) then a few people to supervise all the accounts that are being bott'd, which depening on the area does not amount to much lost in profits. and their method is usually, if not enough people buy lower the price. So as time goes by farmer prices drop which means it will slowly turn more and more people into using their service, gradually working down the playerbase. I think gold buyers should be treated similarly to drug addicts, as they are not the main target and are a victim as well (their REAL money was taken and you get banned, I think thats a victim in my definition), go after to proper people before a transaction occurs is what should be done.

Originally Posted by BackFlipLikeWo

Also, I've never seen this much delusion in one spot ever in my entire life.

Actually what Wreckus is saying has a ton of logic in it. Productive members of society such as peoples parents will not be able to play as much as say, a kid on summer vacation, or university off for the summer semester. These people often have other obligations as well such as kids of their own to take care of. In this case real money is the great equalizer as their money can get them what they missed in the past 16 hours.

Originally Posted by Draconais

People who buy gold can't be bothered actually playing the game properly and therefore the game and their character means nothing to them. They should be shot... multiple times... with multiple guns..

I think you are generalizing, I am sure there are plenty of examples of people who buy kinah, and still enjoy playing their characters. Probably most people do it to keep a competative edge but do not have the time to invest into playing the game 24/7

[Valkadesh]

It's not the norm at all. Unless people want the norm to be a quick kick the the family jewels. We just happen to have a greater than average pool of cheating fools on the forums here apparently.

[Wreckus]

Originally Posted by BackFlipLikeWo

Also, I've never seen this much delusion in one spot ever in my entire life.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

No burden. It's not how the game is meant to be played, so I don't have to prove anything. It's really sad that you are advocating this. And that's not evidence, that's clearly a statement of opinion.

Perhaps you're not familiar with how discussion works. If you state something as fact, then it is up to you to prove said statement as fact.

The reason why EVE has a great economy is because ships can be destroyed and they cost ... lots... to say the least, so implementing the same kindof idea (such as dropping items or durability to eventual destruction w/o repair... repair is bad...)

That doesn't really address currency inflation. Ships blowing up just remove minerals from the economy, not 'gold'... if anything they contribute to the, constantly harped on, 'INFLATION!!~~' due to the insurance payouts actually generating money in game.

Of course everything will be more expensive if gold buying is common. And players that follow the rules will not be able to afford to buy the best items. Then more players will feel they are forced to buy gold to compete and the problem will get worse. And the economy will eventually be ruined if this is out of control...

This is a slippery slope argument (Logical fallacy).

I don't know about Wreckus but I have not once purchased gold (as I am a broke student). Or are you referring to some ominous force you feel lurking around the corner?

I haven't ever purchased gold. I have sold gold (I farmed 60g the first 3 days wow was out, sold it to a gold buying website for $60 so I could buy my copy of WoW (I was on a 10 day trial)).

I'd consider it, but in WoW the risk vs reward was too much on the risk side.. losing multiple top tier raiding characters wasn't worth saving a few hours farming gold. Aion may be a bit different depending on how tough they are on gold sellers. v0v.

I have an open mind on the subject, I'm not like one of the many people in here that have consumed the 'GOLD BUYING IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL' kool-aid. I prefer to actually explore WHY people think this. So far nobody has had a really good excuse (outside of Inflation, which is has a pretty neutral affect on MMOs... since inflated prices means you're making more money too).

[Dandune]

Originally Posted by Taym

Actually what Wreckus is saying has a ton of logic in it. Productive members of society such as peoples parents will not be able to play as much as say, a kid on summer vacation, or university off for the summer semester. These people often have other obligations as well such as kids of their own to take care of. In this case real money is the great equalizer as their money can get them what they missed in the past 16 hours.

Actually it is the opposite. People with jobs usually have enough self-discipline to play legit.
Spoiled kids on the other hand don't have the patience or discipline to do it so they buy in-game currency to stay equal.

Also usually people who earn their money, respect their (hard-earned) money more. So they don't spend it on virtual items to prove something in an online game.

[MChaf]

The reality is that bots and kinah sales will be visible. Aion will have a substantial market share and that will attract the sellers. However, the kinah and gear will not be difficult to get in game for the majority of players, unlike other games such as L2 where the adena (kinah) and gear were next to impossible for the majority of players to get. So, I fully expect there to be less bots, except those engaged in power-leveling activities and minimal kinah sales.

[Dandune]

Originally Posted by Wreckus

This is a slippery slope argument (Logical fallacy).

Since I noticed you were looking for facts... anyone from L2 can asure you that farmers controled the market and gradually raised prices, from basic materials and shots to top gear.

[Taym]

Originally Posted by Valkadesh

It's not the norm at all. Unless people want the norm to be a quick kick the the family jewels. We just happen to have a greater than average pool of cheating fools on the forums here apparently.

I am not really sure how to respond to this post, but I will give it a go anyway. I don't think anyone said it was the norm, unless there was the earlier quoting of "40% of people RMT or have at one point in their lives" which I think is fairly accurate. I used to play a F2P mmo and I definately RMT'd off of the official cash shop. Alot of the people from F2P mmo's would carry this ideaology into the next mmo they play in which they think its "not so bad".

Anyway...
I guess my main point is RMT'n ruining the economy is just a large SIGN that the economic model for the game is broken, the only thing that RMT'n does is speed up a process that is ALREADY underway. So if you FIX the model, you fix the impact that the gold sellers have on the economy. Then... if there is no negative effect due to the gold selling... *use your own imagination*

PS. Thanks this thread has been keeping me entertained for a few hours now.

Originally Posted by Dandune

Actually it is the opposite. People with jobs usually have enough self-discipline to play legit.
Spoiled kids on the other hand don't have the patience or discipline to do it so they buy in-game currency to stay equal.

Also usually people who earn their money, respect their (hard-earned) money more. So they don't spend it on virtual items to prove something in an online game.

from my past experience I disagree, most times I have seen hard working respectable people use company supplied cash shops, usually only people older then children have learned trade off risk as well. ( I had a whole writup but I messed it up and didnt want to go typing it all out again so you get the short version. So I guess its more of an agree to disagree thing)

Originally Posted by Wreckus

That doesn't really address currency inflation. Ships blowing up just remove minerals from the economy, not 'gold'... if anything they contribute to the, constantly harped on, 'INFLATION!!~~' due to the insurance payouts actually generating money in game.

I was more meaing the replacement of the ship places the person in a state of need instead of a state of excess whereas they have something to spend their money on instead of overpaying on commonly used items. (as my experience w/ EVE is fairly limited)

Originally Posted by Wreckus

I have an open mind on the subject, I'm not like one of the many people in here that have consumed the 'GOLD BUYING IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL' kool-aid. I prefer to actually explore WHY people think this. So far nobody has had a really good excuse (outside of Inflation, which is has a pretty neutral affect on MMOs... since inflated prices means you're making more money too).

I am with you on this statement, everyone seems to be a clone and their only response is from an autogenerated response system.

[.violence]

Originally Posted by riwdlytt

Cheating is cheating. The EULA clearly tell us gold buying is not allowed.

Of course everything will be more expensive if gold buying is common. And players that follow the rules will not be able to afford to buy the best items. Then more players will feel they are forced to buy gold to compete and the problem will get worse. And the economy will eventually be ruined if this is out of control...

And the Antichrist will then rise from the oceans, Ragnarok will initiate, the Gods will wage into battle, earth will split in two, just like the world of Aion, humanity will form into light and darkness and wage a war for eternity, the sun will implode into a miniature black hole and cause mass extinction, hell, Tyranids start invading and consume all bio-mass in the galaxy, a hole will open causing Warp demons too spawn and rape, burn, pillage and mutate everything, C'tan and their Necron soldiers will eradicate all life, and so on, and so forth, until the end of time, and then some . . . . .

/sarcasm

Seriously, what the fawk is up with everyone and their mothers' so-oh-pure, holier-than-thou attitude? Let me just paraphrase a few things and go from there, mmk?

"ZOMG ppl are sooo stoopid 4 bying kinah with RL moneys!!11!!"

Most of our society (non-MMO players) would say think same sh1t about you for paying $15 dollars a month trying to live the life of an imaginary character in a fantasy world feeling powerful as you slay animated sprites.

"But bying moneys will roon the game experince oh noes!!11!"

No, it doesn't. I care about PvP. I want to be as good as possible. I want to spend every waking hour playing Aion learning the intricacies of my character, combos, and builds. Not spending 75% of my time farming gold because some retards on a forum happens to think that's the best way to spend our time in an MMO.

"But ur not playing teh game the way its meant to be played!!1!1"

Umm, yes I am. My idea of "the game" is soley end-game PvP/RvR. I don't care what YOUR ideal way to play the game is, and frankly, I DON'T GIVE A SH1T. Especially not about how much you feel that I am not enjoying the game. Because I am, and your annoying *** bantering is the only thing I am NOT enjoying.

So please, keep to your word, and quit Aion, because I will be the type of person you hate. I will buy Kinah as I see fit, and there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it. Did I make you miserable? Did I p1ss you off? I certainly hope so, because you're p1ssing ME off.

Bloody children.

Aion doesn't need underage whiners with no jobs or lives.

[Wreckus]

Originally Posted by Dandune

Actually it is the opposite. People with jobs usually have enough self-discipline to play legit.
Spoiled kids on the other hand don't have the patience or discipline to do it so they buy in-game currency to stay equal.

Also usually people who earn their money, respect their (hard-earned) money more. So they don't spend it on virtual items to prove something in an online game.

What the hell are you talking about? I have a job, I work all day. I own my own house, car, have a retirement fund that I pay into monthly... I'm more financially responsible than 90% of the people on this forum.

I don't feel like coming home and spending another 7 hours grinding for money. It isn't fun. Luckily, I make enough money that it isn't a big deal to drop $50 every month or so on trivial things like computer games. It has nothing to do with 'proving something in an online game'. It is more that it eliminates the annoying aspect of a hobby that they enjoy. In a game that takes up so much of people's time, it practically becomes their hobby... and there are much more expensive hobbies. <$100/mo is a bargain for a hobby... and spending $100/mo on Kinah would be on the crazy high end for pretty much anybody.

So I'm not seeing your argument. Are you mad that people who don't work minimum wage jobs can afford to buy gold?

I also pay someone to mow my lawn, when I could do it myself. You want to get mad about that too? Is that 'not respecting [my] hard earned money' as well?

Since I noticed you were looking for facts... anyone from L2 can asure you that farmers controled the market and gradually raised prices, from basic materials and shots to top gear.

This isn't so much an argument against gold sellers as people raging against people that do market manipulation. This is pretty much how I made my money in WoW... so non-gold sellers can do this too. You just need quite a bit of startup money to actually control markets.

e: Also, I love the passive aggressive trolling using reps... "If you can't play the game, don't play." and "You are in need of medication.".

[Chalky]

Banning people who buy gold is a vital part of the war against botters. It's as simple as that.

People bot because it is profitable to farm gold and sell it. The only way to stop this is to stop it from being profitable.

And the only way to stop it from being profitable is to do two things: Increase their costs by banning their accounts and making them buy more, and decrease their revenue by banning the people who buy gold and making anyone who's considering buying gold too scared to because they are afraid of being banned.

Banning people who buy gold is vital to the health of the game. Ayase's post is very encouraging!

[Dandune]

Originally Posted by Wreckus

What the hell are you talking about? I have a job, I work all day. I own my own house, car, have a retirement fund that I pay into monthly... I'm more financially responsible than 90% of the people on this forum.

I don't feel like coming home and spending another 7 hours grinding for money. It isn't fun. I make enough money that it isn't a big deal to drop $50 every month or so on trivial things like computer games. It has nothing to do with 'proving something in an online game'. It is more that it eliminates the annoying aspect of a hobby that they enjoy. In a game that takes up so much of people's time, it practically becomes their hobby... and there are much more expensive hobbies. <$100/mo is a bargain for a hobby... and spending $100/mo on Kinah would be on the crazy high end for pretty much anybody.

So I'm not seeing your argument. Are you mad that people who don't work minimum wage jobs can afford to buy gold?

I also pay someone to mow my lawn, when I could do it myself. You want to get mad about that too? Is that 'not respecting [my] hard earned money' as well?

You compare mowing lawn and other RL things to virtual world of the internet games?
Are you serious? Surely you can't be.

You own the lawn, it is your lawn, you pay for the RL service so that your lawn looks better.
In-game items are not your property, by buying in-game currency you are actually participating in a crime. Read EULA.

Well if crime is your hobby...