Experience loss on death

[Fleiva]

TheWired, I think you got it wrong, 17M of accounts were created for L2, nowadays the subs numbers is somewhere around 1M in the whole world, and 900k for Lineage I.

[TheWired]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

TheWired, I think you got it wrong, 17M of accounts were created for L2, nowadays the subs numbers is somewhere around 1M in the whole world, and 900k for Lineage I.

Yea, fewer people nowadays play the game, a lot migrated to wow and other misc. games, if you also count single people owning 8-10 accounts that also reduces the amount of people. I did read a bit fast wiki, it seems that WoW holds 10 millions players on a regular basis, the global amout of players of all mmorpgs is about 16 million people on average so it holds 10 out of 16. Damn, how can people play that game on daily basis for 3,5 years straight? (yea obviously not all people do).

My bad, but the thing is, it doesn't change the fact that WoW's pvp isn't a part of the game interesting enough to be worth camping/farming arenas/instances years for. Well, we could debate on that for hours but that wasn't really the point of the topic. I don't know much about aion as of yet, i have watched a couple of videos and read a few articles.

I'm sure whoever developed that game was smart enough not to make it a WoW ripoff and will make it worth it.
It'd be nice to see WoW's PvE and fun side of the game getting mixed with L2's sense of hardcore and intense PvP.
Only future will tell ...

[c4tastroph3]

Originally Posted by Calindor

haha, WoW's pvp system isnt even near half as dynamic as l2's....L2 has everything WoW pvp has, plus more, mass pvp, not to mention pvp integrated into practically everything in the game.

And quoting sales means nothing...Britney Spears and 50 Cent are obviously the most skilled musicians in the world because they have high album sales right? The world is far from perfect, and quality rarely reflects on sales.

Mass PVP is usually just a ton of zerging. PVP is integrated into a lot of thing's there. Don't be bitter because I made valid points. I can understand your love for L2, but statistics show WoW crushes L2 on all levels. That's not to say L2 is a bad game, because it isn't, it's a great game.

[zepher]

Originally Posted by c4tastroph3

Mass PVP is usually just a ton of zerging. PVP is integrated into a lot of thing's there. Don't be bitter because I made valid points. I can understand your love for L2, but statistics show WoW crushes L2 on all levels. That's not to say L2 is a bad game, because it isn't, it's a great game.

You can't reply to someone who brings the credibility of statistics into question with more statistics. Like Calindor said, more popular doesn't mean better. Usually less popular means better. Mass production will never win over hand crafted items.
Ton of zerging, then why do people remember the TM/SS days of WoW pvp more fondly then the honor system and pvp battlegrounds?

[c4tastroph3]

Originally Posted by zepher

You can't reply to someone who brings the credibility of statistics into question with more statistics. Like Calindor said, more popular doesn't mean better. Usually less popular means better. Mass production will never win over hand crafted items.
Ton of zerging, then why do people remember the TM/SS days of WoW pvp more fondly then the honor system and pvp battlegrounds?

It wasn't about honor and loot then, just player versus player. That's why I remember it. Less popular doesn't mean better. Stupid points escalating a stupid argument.

[Calindor]

Originally Posted by c4tastroph3

Mass PVP is usually just a ton of zerging. PVP is integrated into a lot of thing's there. Don't be bitter because I made valid points. I can understand your love for L2, but statistics show WoW crushes L2 on all levels. That's not to say L2 is a bad game, because it isn't, it's a great game.

I never said L2 is a great game, it has many flaws...too many. But L2 in its high's is leaps and bounds above other games, but in its lows it can be underground .... "Mass PVP is usually just a ton of zerging." That right there tells me you have absolutely no experienc at all in mass pvp, the strategy and what it takes to win. Those people that just show up and spam attack and thing its a "zerg" are the ones who lose.

[c4tastroph3]

Originally Posted by Calindor

I never said L2 is a great game, it has many flaws...too many. But L2 in its high's is leaps and bounds above other games, but in its lows it can be underground .... "Mass PVP is usually just a ton of zerging." That right there tells me you have absolutely no experienc at all in mass pvp, the strategy and what it takes to win. Those people that just show up and spam attack and thing its a "zerg" are the ones who lose.

No really, mass pvp is zerg. Group PVP and solo are where it's at. Other than that, I won't respond anymore to your posts because we've derailed this thread enough.

[TheWired]

I was writting a long-azz text to flame you but your last post made me erase all of it, it seems useless to even try to argue with you. Well I'm gonna try anyway.

Originally Posted by c4tastroph3

Mass PVP is usually just a ton of zerging. PVP is integrated into a lot of thing's there. Don't be bitter because I made valid points.

Mass Pvp is not necessarily anything about zerg. Playing 4 years of lineage in a strong clan/alliance, we have torn appart
huge zergs with small numbers, we've had a lot of HUGE fights with even numbers. I bet you don't even know what a castle siege is. WoW is such a pathetic attempt at being a PvP game it makes me laugh. Even DAoC is better than WoW on PvP.

I can understand your love for L2, but statistics show WoW crushes L2 on all levels. That's not to say L2 is a bad game, because it isn't, it's a great game.

I joined the forums yesterday and this is the most absurd post I've been given to read so far.
All you do is claiming without ever giving any reason but "the statistics" do this or do that which clearly prove you don't have a large experience with mmorpgs (correct me if I'm wrong). Even more absurd, you're comparing 2 games that are nothing alike and aim completely different audiences; it's like comparing Bambi to The Lord of the ring for best Motion picture of all times category. It's just pointless to argue.

No really, mass pvp is zerg. Group PVP and solo are where it's at. Other than that, I won't respond anymore to your posts because we've derailed this thread enough.

Seriously, and that's my opinion, playing a mmorpg means interacting within a community, in the way that you can enjoy the content of a game and actually influence the course of the "story", game mechanics, and to some extent making other people interact with the server because of all these changes. L2 has been a great game over these last years and has pros and cons, WoW, as your statistic state also has some pros and cons and is great in another dynamic.
My own opinion would be, if i had to compare these 2 games which i played last without entering complex mechanics, that WoW lacks a purpose in general for what i could notice. Maybe that's just me but i haven't caught the point of the game. There isn't any mechanics in that game working towards a community spirit. All you do is quest, chain instances, and fight BG when you want PvP. What I'm saying is a bit exaggerated, but thats basically what i dislike in WoW. L2 might be as crappy as it can possibly be now, everyone actually has to work together to control important features that change everyone's gameplay and goal in game or at least it used to be. Yea it has a lot of flaws, botters and so on but so does WoW anyway.

Everyone is free to see games as they see fit, but to my mind, all the credits you try to give to defend WoW are mediocre.
If i wanna solo all day, I'll go buy an xbox360 game and go rampage or play some rpg on a PS2. If i wanna Pvp well I'll get a real PvP game like DAoC or L2 and not a cheap ripoff BG/arena from WoW.

Don't get me wrong, im not trying to make L2 like the center of the world but its your main comparison argument which you don't really argue about anyway. I really dislike L2 in the state its in now but seriously, if you have never played DAoC or L2, you have no idea about what a PvP game is. If the only mmorpg you've played extensively is WoW, then you don't really know what a mmorpg is about at all.

I'll give you one thing we both agree on though, we've quite derailed from the original topic :P

[c4tastroph3]

Originally Posted by TheWired

I was writting a long-azz text to flame you but your last post made me erase all of it, it seems useless to even try to argue with you. Well I'm gonna try anyway.



Mass Pvp is not necessarily anything about zerg. Playing 4 years of lineage in a strong clan/alliance, we have torn appart
huge zergs with small numbers, we've had a lot of HUGE fights with even numbers. I bet you don't even know what a castle siege is. WoW is such a pathetic attempt at being a PvP game it makes me laugh. Even DAoC is better than WoW on PvP.



I joined the forums yesterday and this is the most absurd post I've been given to read so far.
All you do is claiming without ever giving any reason but "the statistics" do this or do that which clearly prove you don't have a large experience with mmorpgs (correct me if I'm wrong). Even more absurd, you're comparing 2 games that are nothing alike and aim completely different audiences; it's like comparing Bambi to The Lord of the ring for best Motion picture of all times category. It's just pointless to argue.



Seriously, and that's my opinion, playing a mmorpg means interacting within a community, in the way that you can enjoy the content of a game and actually influence the course of the "story", game mechanics, and to some extent making other people interact with the server because of all these changes. L2 has been a great game over these last years and has pros and cons, WoW, as your statistic state also has some pros and cons and is great in another dynamic.
My own opinion would be, if i had to compare these 2 games which i played last without entering complex mechanics, that WoW lacks a purpose in general for what i could notice. Maybe that's just me but i haven't caught the point of the game. There isn't any mechanics in that game working towards a community spirit. All you do is quest, chain instances, and fight BG when you want PvP. What I'm saying is a bit exaggerated, but thats basically what i dislike in WoW. L2 might be as crappy as it can possibly be now, everyone actually has to work together to control important features that change everyone's gameplay and goal in game or at least it used to be. Yea it has a lot of flaws, botters and so on but so does WoW anyway.

Everyone is free to see games as they see fit, but to my mind, all the credits you try to give to defend WoW are mediocre.
If i wanna solo all day, I'll go buy an xbox360 game and go rampage or play some rpg on a PS2. If i wanna Pvp well I'll get a real PvP game like DAoC or L2 and not a cheap ripoff BG/arena from WoW.

Don't get me wrong, im not trying to make L2 like the center of the world but its your main comparison argument which you don't really argue about anyway. I really dislike L2 in the state its in now but seriously, if you have never played DAoC or L2, you have no idea about what a PvP game is. If the only mmorpg you've played extensively is WoW, then you don't really know what a mmorpg is about at all.

I'll give you one thing we both agree on though, we've quite derailed from the original topic :P

What I don't understand is that L2 fanboi's continue to hack at me when all I stated was my own opinion and facts. Opinion about what I thought, then I stated the facts of popularity. You can type a wall of text to me all you want, stating your own opinion, and even bashing mine. Thing is, I don't give a ****. You may enjoy whatever else I may dislike, that's natural. You may think I have never played any of what you think is the best, but I have, and honestly, I probably didn't like the mechanics of the game as a whole. That's just me though.

I'm not even upholding a real defense in the name of WoW either, you must be confused because I am only playing softball on these forums. I've played many MMO's, and only a handful I played for more than six months. Please, I don't want to cause drama on these forums, but you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Kimba]

Originally Posted by TheWired

I was writting a long-azz text to flame you but your last post made me erase all of it, it seems useless to even try to argue with you. Well I'm gonna try anyway.



Mass Pvp is not necessarily anything about zerg. Playing 4 years of lineage in a strong clan/alliance, we have torn appart
huge zergs with small numbers, we've had a lot of HUGE fights with even numbers. I bet you don't even know what a castle siege is. WoW is such a pathetic attempt at being a PvP game it makes me laugh. Even DAoC is better than WoW on PvP.



I joined the forums yesterday and this is the most absurd post I've been given to read so far.
All you do is claiming without ever giving any reason but "the statistics" do this or do that which clearly prove you don't have a large experience with mmorpgs (correct me if I'm wrong). Even more absurd, you're comparing 2 games that are nothing alike and aim completely different audiences; it's like comparing Bambi to The Lord of the ring for best Motion picture of all times category. It's just pointless to argue.



Seriously, and that's my opinion, playing a mmorpg means interacting within a community, in the way that you can enjoy the content of a game and actually influence the course of the "story", game mechanics, and to some extent making other people interact with the server because of all these changes. L2 has been a great game over these last years and has pros and cons, WoW, as your statistic state also has some pros and cons and is great in another dynamic.
My own opinion would be, if i had to compare these 2 games which i played last without entering complex mechanics, that WoW lacks a purpose in general for what i could notice. Maybe that's just me but i haven't caught the point of the game. There isn't any mechanics in that game working towards a community spirit. All you do is quest, chain instances, and fight BG when you want PvP. What I'm saying is a bit exaggerated, but thats basically what i dislike in WoW. L2 might be as crappy as it can possibly be now, everyone actually has to work together to control important features that change everyone's gameplay and goal in game or at least it used to be. Yea it has a lot of flaws, botters and so on but so does WoW anyway.

Everyone is free to see games as they see fit, but to my mind, all the credits you try to give to defend WoW are mediocre.
If i wanna solo all day, I'll go buy an xbox360 game and go rampage or play some rpg on a PS2. If i wanna Pvp well I'll get a real PvP game like DAoC or L2 and not a cheap ripoff BG/arena from WoW.

Don't get me wrong, im not trying to make L2 like the center of the world but its your main comparison argument which you don't really argue about anyway. I really dislike L2 in the state its in now but seriously, if you have never played DAoC or L2, you have no idea about what a PvP game is. If the only mmorpg you've played extensively is WoW, then you don't really know what a mmorpg is about at all.

I'll give you one thing we both agree on though, we've quite derailed from the original topic :P

To long didn't read.

Totaly agree with whatever c4tastrooph3 said.

Over and out.

[GRaFFiX]

WoW > L2 period.. sad but true. Go PLay L2 and leave the real PvPers alone.

[frag971]

It's OK to loose some XP when you die. It's NOT OK do delevel. It's OK to loose a whole lvl of exp if you die alot. It's NOT OK to loose any XP (read: de-lvl) when you are at max level.

Tbh would be nice that if you get rezzed in the first two minutes (by a priest or a special item) you dont loose any XP at all

[TheWired]

Originally Posted by c4tastroph3

What I don't understand is that L2 fanboi's continue to hack at me when all I stated was my own opinion and facts. Opinion about what I thought, then I stated the facts of popularity. You can type a wall of text to me all you want, stating your own opinion, and even bashing mine. Thing is, I don't give a ****. You may enjoy whatever else I may dislike, that's natural. You may think I have never played any of what you think is the best, but I have, and honestly, I probably didn't like the mechanics of the game as a whole. That's just me though.

I'm not even upholding a real defense in the name of WoW either, you must be confused because I am only playing softball on these forums. I've played many MMO's, and only a handful I played for more than six months. Please, I don't want to cause drama on these forums, but you're barking up the wrong tree.

I'm not barking at you, I'm only giving my opinion as you previously did. Don't hold any grudge against me, i thought the way you expressed in your previous posts sounded a bit arrogant and felt like you didn't know much about PvP and their mechanics in games that looked like you never played. When you want to make a point on a community forum you should always use specific references based on your experience and not just throw things up like that, it's like asking to be flamed ^^
Just to be clear, I'm not upholding a specific defense in the name of L2 either, but since you referred to it several times and its one of the last games i played, it was easier to quote.

About the long text, I am not english/american native, you'd have to blame my previous teachers and their stupid essays, i just can't sum anything up >.<
Don't worry, everyone knows its forums, nobody is really mad at each other, without forum trolling and drama, community would suck :> Plus drama is usually a good omen for a mmorpg.

Originally Posted by Chronicles

WoW > L2 period.. sad but true. Go PLay L2 and leave the real PvPers alone.

I lol'd.

[Zinrae]

Off topic and getting out of hand =\