Your thoughts on voice chat in-game?

[Disturbing]

Lag - I rather have 7000 players instead of 1000 - 2000 players on a server /w voice. It's best just to do outside vent / game comm / etc.

~DisTurBinG

[Calindor]

Originally Posted by Endrance

I never saw a need in using a voice chat in MMORPGs other than for random smalltalk (which was done when people didn't have much to do) and hard bosses where typing was nearly impossible. And as long as there isn't a need I rather enjoy the game without sex offers.

you must have played some lame mmorpgs then.

Try running a raid boss group of 30 people without vent, or try running a castle siege with 100 people and no vent

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Calindor

you must have played some lame mmorpgs then.

Try running a raid boss group of 30 people without vent, or try running a castle siege with 100 people and no vent

Actually I did and it often ended up in a chaos of people talking all at once, which happened to be pretty troublesome.

By the way, what has coordination to do with the lameness of a MMORPG? From what I've seen and played myself WoW and L2 seem pretty weak in comparison to a game like FFXI when it's about the lameness of a fighting system or actual player skill needed when the game only requires a permanently repeated spamfest.

I mean... even if this isn't about group coordination, compare what he did with your weird L2 Raid Bosses.

YouTube - Avesta vs Eald'narche Part 1

YouTube - Avesta vs Eald'narche Part 1

YouTube - Avesta vs Eald'narche Part 2

YouTube - Avesta vs Eald'narche Part 2

I could also give you some vids where group coordination was needed and ventrillo was used (I didn't use it myself, cause I pretty much did every fight in FFXI already and knew what to do without even thinking about it)... and it actually looks much more complex than any WoW instance or L2 Raid/CastleSiege I've ever done/seen.

[Fleiva]

FFXI isnt a competitive game, there's no focus at all on pvp, you can live without ventrilo there, from the looks of aion, it wont be the same, so you cant really compare.

[Calindor]

Originally Posted by Endrance

Actually I did and it often ended up in a chaos of people talking all at once, which happened to be pretty troublesome.

By the way, what has coordination to do with the lameness of a MMORPG? From what I've seen and played myself WoW and L2 seem pretty weak in comparison to a game like FFXI when it's about the lameness of a fighting system or actual player skill needed when the game only requires a permanently repeated spamfest.

I mean... even if this isn't about group coordination, compare what he did with your weird L2 Raid Bosses.
YouTube - Avesta vs Eald'narche Part 1
YouTube - Avesta vs Eald'narche Part 2

I could also give you some vids where group coordination was needed and ventrillo was used (I didn't use it myself, cause I pretty much did every fight in FFXI already and knew what to do without even thinking about it)... and it actually looks much more complex than any WoW instance or L2 Raid/CastleSiege I've ever done/seen.

Clans that have vents with chaos of everyone talking at once is what the L2 community refers to as unorganized scrubs. Someone shouting something "kill this person on me" can warrant a kick out of the clan/serious warning from some clans...other clans prefer to just mute everyone but party leaders and commanders.



I have absolutely no idea whats going on in those youtube vids...i've never played a turn based game for over 5 minutes....but you think sieging 100 people through a castle that could take 10 minutes to explore while fighting an enemy of equal size, while other clans are trying to attack too can be done under anything but the best communication? You can try with out voice chat but someone will just roll you like dice.

L2 has epic bosses that require hundreds of people to beat (not anymore, ive killed baium with 11 people, and antharas with 50 in less than an hour)....but it requires some strategy. For antharas our strategy was make 3 lines in the shape of a U...2 opposing lines would be archers, with healers about 20 feet behind them. 1 line perpendicular to them would be mages, with mana rechargers behind them. The 2 archer lines would fire, and when one of the archer lines would agro the boss, they would stop so the other line could...later on when we got better geared we tryed a tank approach (my ally now has 2 hero tanks, so that pretty much beats everything)...but we had some somewhat unsuccessful attempts our first few tries, where like all 80 people died like 5 times on average lol...I can honesty say it would be futile to try if we werent on ventrilo...I can also say I guarantee I would have never won a castle siege if my clan wasnt using ventrilo.



Antharas:

YouTube - Lineage 2 Antharas raid gustin

YouTube - Lineage 2 Antharas raid gustin

Baium:

YouTube - Lineage 2 Baium Raid Video

YouTube - Lineage 2 Baium Raid Video

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

FFXI isnt a competitive game, there's no focus at all on pvp, you can live without ventrilo there, from the looks of aion, it wont be the same, so you cant really compare.

He did compare Raid Bosses himself, such as the equip dependant things in L2 or the boring instances from WoW. Of course if it's about PvP I have to admit, that voice chat can be extremely useful and if that was the case from the start I'd apologize to you if you felt misunderstood. I wasn't arguing with you about using voice chat in group oriented PvP systems, such as the abyss at all.

@Calindor: It doesn't make sense arguing with you about MMORPGs if you are unexperienced in the games or in one of them we're comparing. Even though L2 needed some positioning... and had some basic elements of strategy in some fights, you can't compare it with FFXI, as reaction and timing was everything... cast your shadow as a NIN 0.5 seconds too late and you're dead if you fight a God or things such as Divine Might, because your casting will be interrupted if you get hit and you can't do it again right away. Do Chainspell-Stun as RDM/DRK a bit too late and it will probably wipe out the whole alliance. As well as removing status ailments as WHM from people as fast as possible, while there are about 5 people to heal for you, you need to keep buffs up with different cooldowns on certain people (if a Ninja for some reason gets silenced and you don't remove it right away he will die in mere seconds)... try to keep them alive casting cure without pulling too much hate from the mob (or it's a possible wipe caused by just one mage dying). That's what Avesta did in those vids btw. He kept around 10 buffs with different cooldown and casting times up, always had to remember how many shadows of the 3 you get when you cast the spell were left, keep the orbits asleep... You can't compare something like that with a game you only need to position yourself in, start spaming your **** and by a chance of using voice chat wait for simple orders.

[Calindor]

interesting, there was more than one person in that vid?...was he fighting more than one people, or was he controlling more than one? I really have no idea what was happening

And that strategy is like a chess game, its has relevance to what we're talking about, except personal skill which has nothing to do with communication. Mass pvp like l2/aion is liek a real war, you need to know where the archer parties go, certain archers have a skill that makes them deadly (snipe) but they cant move for 2 minutes after they cast it. You need to know when destroyers use a certain skill (when they get low on hp..usually on purpose, they use a skill that makes them destroy everything). You need to know when tanks should run in and start using aggression on different people and spamming skills....This kind of coordination can only be successful with the highest communication possible. And it has to be organized at leader and party levels...you cant have people shouting on vent assist me or kill this guy...that has to be done with your party...if that happens there is unorganized chaos and you will simply lose.

A castle siege will usually come down to who has better organization and who is faster at moving/attacking in a group which all depends on communication...you seem to have brought up a whole new topic and i dont see how the 2 relate



And you can leave vent when you're not doing important stuff like mass pvp/raids...imo not wanting to hear people voices is the stupidest reason i ever heard not to want voice chat...you cant be a successfull clan in any mmo without it

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Calindor

interesting, there was more than one person in that vid?...was he fighting more than one people, or was he controlling more than one? I really have no idea what was happening

He was alone fighting three enemies and after that one.

And you can leave vent when you're not doing important stuff like mass pvp/raids...

That's what I'm talking about. And most of the time it's not necessary unless you're sick enough raiding all day.

imo not wanting to hear people voices is the stupidest reason i ever heard not to want voice chat...

Please reread. This wasn't related to the necessary kind of use. Why can't you accept that someone doesn't like if people are babbling while he's questing with someone else? lol

you cant be a successfull clan in any mmo without it

That's totally false. Very much depends on the game you're playing and especially the number of people going with you and how skilled they are, as well as many other technical factors. Generalizing that would be stupid.
Also I don't want to hear that from someone who obviously played a tiny amount of MMOs.

This discussion much likely went a stupid path, because I felt offended by your unqualified comments. I'll just end it here until it gets even more stupid then it already is.

[Calindor]

You cant organize a large amount of people without it, and if you could, having vent would be far superior...and the reason not wanting to hear people all day long is stupid is because you can leave at any time...if theres an important event going on you need to be in it, but if you're out questing with someone else, theres no reason to listen to people babbling on...So leave the channel, go in the afk one.

You have no ideahow many mmorpg's i've played so dont talk. Do you think in aion where flight is a part of pvp that timing and communication wont be extremely important?




Give me one example where it would be more benefitial to have a different kind of communication over voice chat.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Calindor

if theres an important event going on you need to be in it, but if you're out questing with someone else, theres no reason to listen to people babbling on...So leave the channel, go in the afk one.

Dude, I was never trying to make a point in this thread, using voice chat or not - that's everyone's personal decision. I was just giving my subjective opinion (I even said that I did) and you didn't get that from the start taking me too seriously.
Just let it be.

[Calindor]

Originally Posted by Endrance

I never saw a need in using a voice chat in MMORPGs other than for random smalltalk (which was done when people didn't have much to do) and hard bosses where typing was nearly impossible. And as long as there isn't a need I rather enjoy the game without sex offers.

Originally Posted by Endrance

Actually I did and it often ended up in a chaos of people talking all at once, which happened to be pretty troublesome.

By the way, what has coordination to do with the lameness of a MMORPG? From what I've seen and played myself WoW and L2 seem pretty weak in comparison to a game like FFXI when it's about the lameness of a fighting system or actual player skill needed when the game only requires a permanently repeated spamfest.

co·or·di·nate [adj., n. koh-awr-dn-it, -dn-eyt; v. koh-awr-dn-eyt]
–verb (used with object)
8. to place or class in the same order, rank, division, etc.
9. to place or arrange in proper order or position.
10. to combine in harmonious relation or action.


Maybe we dont speak the same language...but you obviously dont have much experience with WoW or L2 if you think there is no need for good co-ordination...im not a huge fan of WoW (and its pvp), but its arena/bg style would benefit extremely from the fast coordination of using a mic to work together with your team. And in L2 its very difficult to coordinate 100+ people for an event without fast communication like voice chat...it can be done, but if you try by typing while other are on voice chat, they will have the advantage.

Aion's fast paced pvp, and flight which can only be used at a certain will require perfect timing/coordination to fight your enemy, and even more than other games i think Voice chat will be a must to be successful.

[Kolossus]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

FFXI isnt a competitive game, there's no focus at all on pvp, you can live without ventrilo there, from the looks of aion, it wont be the same, so you cant really compare.

lol@FFXI not being competitive. That is the single most uninformed statement about FFXI that I have ever read.

Have you ever played FFXI end-game? PvP isn't a real highlight of FFXI, but the end-game LS's across all servers are EXTREMELY competitive.

Ignorant comments = fail.

[Ipmia]

i could see the use of a voice game chat in a mmorpg, specially in situations like pickup groups so all the group mates could use it fast, or some small pvp situation where voice communication's is a prerequisite to be efficient.

however in a guild situation , nothing is better then the traditional TS/vent imo.

[aznkenshin]

Speaking about competition, there has been a tight competition between the voice-chat software. Why third-party software? Well, aside from more RAM consumption, it allows for flexibility. It can accomodate with any game (depending on what the software is) and make it very easy -- all without worrying about completely public servers where you're always threatened by the occasional noob.

[Infinity]

Originally Posted by Kolossus

lol@FFXI not being competitive. That is the single most uninformed statement about FFXI that I have ever read.

Have you ever played FFXI end-game? PvP isn't a real highlight of FFXI, but the end-game LS's across all servers are EXTREMELY competitive.

Ignorant comments = fail.

Amen to that for starters. PvP FFXI is not too intricate, but it is crazy competitive on a PvE scale.

Anyways back to voice in-game for Aion, I think if they can execute it well, where it is very organized, fluid, and not annoying then it would be an awesome compliment to the game... if they cannot do that, I hope they just leave it up to vent/TS which work fine in my opinion.

Infinity