Economy

[Chu]

The day was eventually going to come when this was brought up for discussion...might as well be today.

This is one of the main reasons why I quit most MMOs after playing for a short period of time. I hate when I can't comfortably upgrade my gear at a certain level because NPC prices are too high. Rares aside, when I reach level 45 or 50 I want to be able to afford my gear without being forced to farm/sell off things I may need later.

(Not to mention cash shop items sucking up the economy, but since it's unlikely Aion will have one I'll leave those out).

Unfortunately as we all know the community is what shapes the economy as far as anything that isn't sold at an NPC, so it's really out of our hands. All I can hope is that the devs are considerate enough not to overprice armors and weapons.

Especially luxury items. Honestly, I think these suck up too much of the economy-- when people are all saving up for these items, they gauge the prices in their shop and slowly bring along inflation. They do make the game a little more interesting, but honestly, one mil for something that you could go just fine without?

So what are your general thoughts on economy and how it should go in Aion? Do you think the auction house will help control inflation? What about houses-- will they be out of this world expensive, or available for anyone to own?

[Sequel]

I'm a little worried myself, but I'll just go as it comes.
Seeing as I'm typically a casual gamer and a terrible, terrible item-hoarder (when possible), I usually end up with an average amount of money. Nothing high, but usually not too low...

I may be alone in this, but I generally like economies where the comfortable minimum or average is attainable and not something you have to sell your arm for, and where the higher end for those more in competition is more difficult to attain.
'Cause seriously, I don't need that upgraded/luxury/deluxe weapon, I can do just fine with regular, average stuff. I want that average to be at least somewhat comfortably reachable-- unlike some ridiculous games where the bare minimum has you selling all you got for it (and then some!).
Though yeah, the higher end is always controlled by the players, and really...I don't think there's really any other outcome other than sky-high prices. As long as people are willing to pay (and there will be), prices will be high. That's already an expectation for many games, for me...

I just really hope the game doesn't become a money grind. >_<;;

But I have faith in the developers. They'll probably do what they can control well.

[Kolossus]

Originally Posted by Chu

Rares aside, when I reach level 45 or 50 [b]I want to be able to afford my gear without being forced to farm[b]/sell off things I may need later.

So, basically handed to you with little to.. absolutely no effort?

[Sequel]

Originally Posted by Kolossus

So, basically handed to you with little to.. absolutely no effort?

There's a difference between "comfortably" and "with no effort at all" -- or at least, that's what I think.

Being able to upgrade to a level that is the minimum to at least have a chance at PvE shouldn't be something players really really struggle to do...or at least, that's what I believe.

I believe rares or upgraded items are something to really work for, not so much the game's "average" or "minimum". The latter two should be more at a more casual pace, not something someone would have to agonize over getting.

[Chu]

Originally Posted by Kolossus

So, basically handed to you with little to.. absolutely no effort?

Wrong. You misunderstood my post.

The amount of money I accumulated naturally from selling off drops over the course of grinding to that level should be more than enough to buy my armor and weapons. I shouldn't have to sell all of the stuff in my inventory, go to the armor shop, and see that one piece of armor is still well beyond my means.

Here's an example:

FlyFF (which I quit years ago, cash shopping piece of crap) had an extremely unreasonable jump in prices the at level 60. You went from spending 40-90k to 1.6mil for your body armor. If you were lucky, you picked up a rare item or two and happen to have that much saved up. Realistically, if you only got the usual drops and a few high priced NPCable items, you'd never have that much saved up. The food necessary (and I do mean necessary) to level costed roughly around 22-80k per stack, and depending on your class, refreshers and FP pots were around that same price. It takes at least ten stacks for one grind trip (won't even get you a level). Money sinks at their best.

People sold their parties, all of the clothes off of their backs, sold plevels, basically anything they could think of in order to obtain their MINIMUM armor. That's far beyond a reasonable economy.

It got even worse at 80-120 (this has changed since, I believe). That armor wasn't even sold by NPCs. They had to be dropped by mobs, which was very rare, and of course prices skyrocketed.

I also don't want to buy an armor set and find my pockets completely empty.

THAT, dear sir, is what I mean.

[Gwelenguchenkus]

There has been mention of 'eliminating grind'. Realistically, I don't see how this is possible. Guild Wars managed it, with tremendous sacrifices (it isn't really an MMO). But the idea is to create a massive amount of content instead of grinding until you're able to advance. This applies to getting new Armor and Weapons. I can't imagine it being all that different from World of Warcraft, by the sound of things. But we'll see if Aion tries something new to get the best of both worlds.

[Szaman]

Lux items in shops??? You, sir (madame?), have had it easy.
Try the "no NPC shops for you, sucker except the basic low lvl stuff" type of economy, with PC CRAFTED higher grades, as the drop rate of a full item is 1 to gazillion (not even TOP only) economy, with % based QUESTS to get the (a) key materials, (b) recepies (Oh... I'm sorry... did you want a MAJESTIC recepie? upsi... you got Dark crystal!) and throw in the 60% succes rate on a CRAFT (x weeks of questing, let's say you got lucky and got the mats and recepies, getting the basic materials together... You find a dwarf, get everything, click... FAILURE! No items for you. Have a nice day! Come again.).
To add insult to injury, throw in a huge amount of money sinks (special "shots" for weapons, potions, teleports, overpriced basic equipment etc.) and what do you end up with? LINEAGE2!
Sorry, but if I can come in "+" with JUST grind I'll be more then happy. I can buy almost everything in NPC shops? OMG! I'M IN!!!
I will not get into details just how much of the money grinder L2 is, how the economy is <add any random curse>, how almost everyone needs to have crafter/spoiler alt to just stay alive and be able to afford the minimum. After 2+ years of such schooling Aion seems like a sunday school with Santa to me.

[Gwelenguchenkus]

Szaman, I've played FFXI for a while, and that game can really constraint you in terms of prices for desirable items, and crafting is not easy by any means.. so I know what you mean. I have not played Lineage 2, but in FFXI* some of the prices on items in the auction house seem like impossible amounts of money to obtain at first. There were a lot of ways in which to get the money, but they were not always well known or easy. That game could really put you in a vice if you are a perfectionist, and the sad part is that there are many people who will not accept you if your equips are not good enough. The game was hard enough to where people were always concerned with the quality of their teammate's equipment. This vice also gave rise to a demand for quality equipment. More demand, more money.

It's rough, but that is the way MMOs have been. FlyFF is very simplistic and almost completely uncomparable to other MMO economies.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Gwelenguchenkus

Szaman, I've played FFXI for a while, and that game can really constraint you in terms of prices for desirable items, and crafting is not easy by any means.. so I know what you mean. I have not played Lineage 2, but in FFXI* some of the prices on items in the auction house seem like impossible amounts of money to obtain at first. There were a lot of ways in which to get the money, but they were not always well known or easy. That game could really put you in a vice if you are a perfectionist, and the sad part is that there are many people who will not accept you if your equips are not good enough. The game was hard enough to where people were always concerned with the quality of their teammate's equipment. This vice also gave rise to a demand for quality equipment. More demand, more money.

It's rough, but that is the way MMOs have been. FlyFF is very simplistic and almost completely uncomparable to other MMO economies.

WHM 75, RDM 75.
0/24 KSNM (f r/ex weapons). 2/55 BCNM. 2/183 NM. 0/12 HNM. 1/1 Noble's (which I had to sell later on to be able to play RDM solo).
Clothcraft 99+6 (all farmed and quested with Ichi scrolls back in the days lol and half of gear sold for it). Spent 14m getting there. Got 10m back after 4 months of excessive crafting while failing two 1m synths.
Isuckatluck.


But seriously, FFXI was simply too much based on luck while you had to put too much effort in everything... and if you failed at having luck, it was all a huge waste in terms of money (you had to actually invest money and not only effort alot in things that were likely to fail at a higher percent rate than being a success). It was just too much like "get nothing or get everything".

If Aion is going to come up with decent and different kinds of gear sets that can just be quested putting much effort into it, while it isn't based on luck at all (or at least just little) AND you can have actually FUN while doing it (interesting quests/shortstories) I'd be sooooo \^_^/ grateful.
At best I would wish for BCNM like bosses you don't need to get 2.000 seals for but are pretty hard to beat while the drop rate of the real good stuff is very low, while there are easier one's at first that give you most of the gear or some unsellable item you need to move to a better one.

[Szaman]

Gwelenguchenkus - Prices in L2 go up to few BILLIONS (normal A grade weapon with special ability is 100-150 mln) of adena and an average mob drops... let's say 1000 adena. Add the price of a sout shot (they double the dmg of a weapon), potions and you can end up in negative. You see the pattern? In L2 you cannot EARN money bu grind. You need to play the market, have a dwarf (and craft/sell - and keep in mindthat all of the good priced items are only 60/70% sucess rate crafts!) or get a clan that can help you. Sure, after so many years the game IS a lot easier, as the adena count is inflated (a good % of players have quite a stack of money), but if you were to start... well...
That is why Aion seems like a picknic to me. Really. After a "dog eat dog" type of game, where you fight to survive if you're a hardcore I'm sure I will be hoarding stuff and count every penny only to realize, that I can get more then enough from simple quests and grind. Imagine that feeling...

[Elitper]

i love hard work and big price to craft something and be happy not all server have it only 50 people and you are smile and show all people good armmor or weapon when you grind for it month

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Elitper

i love hard work and big price to craft something and be happy not all server have it only 50 people and you are smile and show all people good armmor or weapon when you grind for it month

I love to put effort into things if I get a reasonable result. And I hate to only obtain my stuff by simply smashing 64.335 too weak mobs.

[Elitper]

Originally Posted by Endrance

I love to put effort into things if I get a reasonable result. And I hate to only obtain my stuff by simply smashing 64.335 too weak mobs.

true i think on Abbys you can find good materials items(players can kill you and stolen your mob ) or from RB when you need only party too kill it. And best items can be only from craft not buyable at shop

[aznkenshin]

Economy will be balanced between PvE and PvP. Both will give you equal amounts of "rigged" items.

[Celebrity]

Economy will depend on various stuffs. Like an example, what is the reward of the quests? XP only? Some cash + XP? Items + XP? i trully don't know yet. Other things that can screw with the economy is how hard is to get materials to craft stuffs and the bot problem (i trully hope there won't be a bot problem)