DP Skills Elyos VS Asmodians

[Marchosias]

If you assume the translation and original source are both 100% accurate, then Yak is right, it does imply that it absorbs 2000 each hit. Honestly though, if you're talking about a comparison between the two skills it doesn't matter who is right, because the shield is already better. If you had a 3000 HP regen vs. a 2000 HP shield it might be comparable. But a 1000 HP regen vs. a 2000 HP shield is ridiculously unbalanced already, for the reasons I explained earlier.

But, as people have been saying, we don't have nearly enough info to judge, and there will certainly be balancing to come. That said, I have a little more than a shred of trust for NCSoft Korea's balancing ability, so we'll see... Yak said something about some classes being good at PvE and others and PvP, and this is just ridiculous... every class needs to be equally effective at both. That's what balancing is.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Karukan

With the way it is worded, which is likely wrong, I am right. You just took it and reworded it to get your version. For what you are saying to be right it would have to read: Absorbs damages at 100% rate everytime you are attacked, up to 2000, for 30 seconds. But it doesn't.

Edit: But for what it's worth I believe the skill will actually be capped at 2000, i'ts just that it isn't written that way :P I just like to argue

That's actually about how you understand the formulation. "Absorbs damages up to 2000 at 100% rate for 30 seconds everytime you are attacked" doesn't have to mean that the block refreshes to 2000 after you got hit once. You will still absorb all damage everytime you are attacked, but once you've absorbed 2000 damage the buff will be gone (you did absorb damage until then everytime you were attacked also). I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong (it's not), I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense.
Even though it's unbalanced anyway... twice as strong if I am correct (which is very likely) and about 20-30 times stronger if I am not (which would make the Priest able to tank 50 people at once... and that would be... very unlikely). As I said, I doubt NCsoft could be that stupid... so all you're arguing about is if they actually are or not (which in my opinion is stupid). The text doesn't say anything about if the buff will be gone after 2000 damage is absorbed or not, so you could be as right as I am... but it's kinda useless to talk about that.

Yea and I know this post also doesn't really help... but I like to argue sometimes as well, even if it's worthless. ;o

[Marchosias]

Well, apparently they thought a 1000 HOT is on par with a 2000 shield, so I guess they really are that stupid

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Marchosias

Well, apparently they thought a 1000 HOT is on par with a 2000 shield, so I guess they really are that stupid

I doubt they thought about balancing the Skills on par with each race on each skill. They're obviously trying to make 2 classes for each race stronger than the other two of the opposing race. Even though a 100% 2000 damage block shield is as good as +2000 HP and a 3000 hot would still be worse in most cases (except for one on one maybe). It wouldn't be stupid at all if the hot would be doubled or tripled. But it would be very stupid if the shield hypothetically is capable of absorbing up to 1xx.xxx damage while being focused.

[Marchosias]

Balancing two classes of one race to be better and 2 classes of another race to be better IS 100% retarded. Every class on both races needs to be balanced. Thinking otherwise would make the devs that retarded. Balance isn't achieved by making 2 classes strong and 2 not so much on each race. All that means is you're going to have a population surge on those classes. This is a different discussion, though.

[chaosdruid]

Like Mariochas, I sincerely hope they are not stupid enough to deliberately make certain classes gimpy. I think their little "rock paper scissors" idea was way better than a concept where you have to choose to team with good healers and tanks or good DPS classes.

[Endrance]

Yea well, just look at it. It's just as it seems to be like at this moment. I'm also not happy with the way it seems to be right now, but I kind of like the idea of balancing races rather than jobs and I don't find the idea of wanting that itself retarded at all. It makes players rely more on each other. As for the 1on1 aspect, you can just make the class itself a bit more versatile/stronger while it's DP Skill is a bit weaker. Even though that would mean that classes would be different depending on which race you chose... and I don't think that this is what they're going for.
Even though this is just alot of speculation and I also would chose Asmodian Assassin rather than Elyos right now, even though I dislike bat-style.

[eternalchaos]

Personally; who knows what the Devs are thinking right now. Perhaps theya re just using the beta to experiement with this idea. I mean this is BETA afterall. I'm not a fan of different skills per race... I played a few MMOs that tried that and it didn't work in my book. However; what did work was the MMOs who did that and tweaked it so while Skill A is "meh" on the asmo side.. but uber on the eylos .. skill b is the reverse.

Basiclaly from a 'visual' standpoint.. Eylos and Asmodians obviouslly are on opposite ends of the spectrum here. Just look at their wings :P pretending we got angels and demons here... you won't see a Demon casting cure or life... and you won't see an angel summoning a meteor to crush you :P Perhaps skills are going to suit the visual allignment.. Still it has to balance out for PvP. I am big on PvE but in any MMO you can honestly make PvE work as long as you don't force PvP on people (like TR does where PvP gets in the way of your PvE experience).

I guess in the end; this is a case of don't fix what isn't broken. Don't rock the boat here and do something odd with skills in an attempt to be unique. Stick to the formula that has worked since the 80's :P

[Jack]

Originally Posted by eternalchaos

Personally; who knows what the Devs are thinking right now.

Me; thats right, I read minds now

[aznkenshin]

Originally Posted by Jack

Me; thats right, I read minds now

Lies. There is only one person to do that, and that is Mark. (Inside joke.)

Anyway, if you are "not in the know," I have updated Divine Power a couple days ago in the Wiki. See my sig.

[Marchosias]

Originally Posted by Endrance

Yea well, just look at it. It's just as it seems to be like at this moment. I'm also not happy with the way it seems to be right now, but I kind of like the idea of balancing races rather than jobs and I don't find the idea of wanting that itself retarded at all. It makes players rely more on each other. As for the 1on1 aspect, you can just make the class itself a bit more versatile/stronger while it's DP Skill is a bit weaker. Even though that would mean that classes would be different depending on which race you chose... and I don't think that this is what they're going for.
Even though this is just alot of speculation and I also would chose Asmodian Assassin rather than Elyos right now, even though I dislike bat-style.

Lol, it is stupid because if all the classes are balanced, then the races will be, too. Furthermore, it only makes certain classes rely more on each other, it makes others rely less on each other because they're stronger for that class. If you try to "balance races" everything is 100% reliant on the populations of each class, because some are stronger and some are weaker for that race. It might not sound like a big issue, but there will be different populations on different servers, which means balancing "races" will be better or worse depending on your server and the population of each class. Before you try to say that the law of large numbers should even it out on each server, I'll say that the law of large numbers can't account for human choice, and that server populations would be too small for it to apply anyway. Balancing races may sound like a nice idea, but it's just not practical. Although I wouldn't even agree that it sounds nice. Classes really do need to be balanced.

[Chaos_Theory]

Originally Posted by eternalchaos

Personally; who knows what the Devs are thinking right now. Perhaps theya re just using the beta to experiement with this idea. I mean this is BETA afterall. I'm not a fan of different skills per race... I played a few MMOs that tried that and it didn't work in my book. However; what did work was the MMOs who did that and tweaked it so while Skill A is "meh" on the asmo side.. but uber on the eylos .. skill b is the reverse.

Basiclaly from a 'visual' standpoint.. Eylos and Asmodians obviouslly are on opposite ends of the spectrum here. Just look at their wings :P pretending we got angels and demons here... you won't see a Demon casting cure or life... and you won't see an angel summoning a meteor to crush you :P Perhaps skills are going to suit the visual allignment.. Still it has to balance out for PvP. I am big on PvE but in any MMO you can honestly make PvE work as long as you don't force PvP on people (like TR does where PvP gets in the way of your PvE experience).

I guess in the end; this is a case of don't fix what isn't broken. Don't rock the boat here and do something odd with skills in an attempt to be unique. Stick to the formula that has worked since the 80's :P

I rather have different class skills per race than have different racial stats. In PvE this isn't too important. In PvP it can make you uber or make you a 1 shot. For example in RFO the classes and races are so imbalanced that it isn't even funny. This I think mostly comes from the racial abilities/traits that boost defense,agi,and etc. Skills are imo easier to balance than racial traits and stats. As long as the skills are balanced in PvP and high end PvE then they are fine.

Well this game will try to force pvp upon you. If you want the omfgwtfbbq xp rates you have to go to the Abyss which is where the highend pvp is. Rarer items are in the Abyss as well. You can use portals to go to other zones and gank them. By the time you start leveling in the Abyss I think you should be ahigh enough level to make a ganker think twice about trying to take you out. I love the feeling of having to watch my back while I am doing something outside the safety of a town. It adds to the experience.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Marchosias

Lol, it is stupid because if all the classes are balanced, then the races will be, too. Furthermore, it only makes certain classes rely more on each other, it makes others rely less on each other because they're stronger for that class. If you try to "balance races" everything is 100% reliant on the populations of each class, because some are stronger and some are weaker for that race. It might not sound like a big issue, but there will be different populations on different servers, which means balancing "races" will be better or worse depending on your server and the population of each class. Before you try to say that the law of large numbers should even it out on each server, I'll say that the law of large numbers can't account for human choice, and that server populations would be too small for it to apply anyway. Balancing races may sound like a nice idea, but it's just not practical. Although I wouldn't even agree that it sounds nice. Classes really do need to be balanced.

That's alot of unnecessary words for something very simple. I've already said that classes would be made stronger other than the DP Skills if those are different but weaker. Of course it gets a bit more complicated and it will probably also take some time to be balanced, but that's what the beta is for. It would just be more interesting playing classes that really are different in many aspects. It's not like that's an impossible thing to do... actually rather the opposite and that's also why it's not stupid.

[Aseenus]

these skills are very much like in guild wars, im liking em

[BahamutKaiser]

Looks like they intentionally made Elyos better in some and Asmodian better in others.

The ones that arn't clear to me are Warrior and Scout. They seem entirely situational. 30 seconds of damage increase is highly situational on how much damage and attacks you can put out in 30 seconds. Wile damage plus returned health for an arbitrary amount, which makes no sense, may be entirely useful in a certain situation. The Asmodian Warrior DP doesn't seem to be contextual.

As for Scout, it is very circumstatial. What it likely means is Asmodian have an increase in defense based on their current defense. And it seems they will have medium defense in general. But if your defense and evasion are only 10 and 10%, and you have no elemental resistance... well whats 100% more of 0? What is better completely relies on the relavence of their current defense. Reguardless, Asmodian will be offering a more universal defense vs a complete but physical only defense, seems competative, we know the Asmodian mages will target the Elyos Scouts.... guess how that would turn out?

Chances are, these are going to be altered and redeveloped based on combat review and feedback. Let's hope they consider a system of revolving advantages rather than direct balancing, because direct balance always tries to limit everything into basically the same damn thing, or just make them boring to fit into a simple system.