9001 Man Raiding vs 6 Men Instance - Please tell me why raiding requires more skill

[Asmodean]

WHAT?
Nonononononononono. Look the WoW raiding tier is like this: 10 man the hardest, 25 is slightly easier (till Ulduar) and 5 man is either a cake walk or a nightmare. It's all gear and knowledge. If you can actually get 25 people to get pointed in the same direction, you frankly deserve a gear drop for that minor miracle. When you have 150% more ppl hitting a target that is typically only 100% bigger than 10 man, you can literally carry noobs into 25 man instances and let them gear up while on auto follow. 10 man is harder that 25 any day of the week. Hell, the hardest right now is still 3 Drakes up on 10 man. 5 man can be easy if the group knows the fights and has the right gear, or it's a wipe feast if more than 2 ppl cant carry their own weight.

Smaller groups are the way to go. I hated the 40 man AQ days, you spend more time waiting for Jimmy to get off the toilet or Sara to get done eating than you do playing. If you screw up a small group, fewer ppl can pick up your slack. It makes you a better team, and team playing in PvE is key to success.

There you go, my 2 cents.

[Pencil]

Understanding the World of Warcraft Using Super Mario Brothers | Cracked.com

This.

[Tricked]

It isn't hard to find some of the top guilds on your server and talk to one of their officers/app on their site, instead of wasting your time with bads that don't put in the same effort you do. Of course in Aion, this isn't really relevant since the boss fights are just tank and spanks, and don't need coordination to begin with. And why are you guys comparing 3 year-old content from WoW to Aion -_-.

[taemek]

Those who think they are going to be running around The Abyss in 3 - 6 man/woman groups and taking out large scale groups/raids have a shock in store for them.

Your all refering to PvE being the only form of raidable content the game has, in actual fact, most of you will be ethier in a PUG Raid or guild based Raid on a constant basis in The Abyss just for PvP action.......ethier that, or grouped beside a raid or 2 trying to gank some free based AP's.

[Ayrx]

I didn't read the replies but I'll just say this: It's all about synergy. The more people you have the more work goes into coordinating, etc. Might not be more "difficult" but more work does go into successful large raids.

[YamiVegeta]

Originally Posted by Finny

I don't think an MMO will survive purely based on a PVP basis, because the boredom factor will kick in sooner or later.

PvP boredom ? Why?
Instead of grinding on mobs you grind on players.

[Barsh]

There is absolutely no comparison between the 2. NONE

Anyone that believes otherwise has never raided current content end game. What is current end game content? Well for example take EQ and lets take a random expansion say plains of power. The Plane of Time was the end game raid content for that expansion. The next expansion comes out with a level increase so everyone gains 5 levels. Well Plane of Time as that point is now trivial and not end game.

You can only do so much in a 6 man instance, no significant add spawns or horrible zone wide AE for 3k damage, or having 4 sets of classes having to perform a specific thing at certain parts of a boss encounter.

6 man can be difficult for 6 people, but there's no way it can match real raids. Now some raids are easy, no question about it, but as you progress they are extremely unforgiving.

You will find alot of 6 man will actually "flag" you for real content

Now for example if you clear fire temple in closed beta, that was difficult for 6 man as the level cap was 30 and I think only one group did it, but you go into fire temple as a group of 34-35 its a joke I'm sure.

The sad thing and I hate harping on this as well is a large part of this game's player base started in a game like wow, where really nothing at all was difficult, everything was scripted, and there was a total of 2 difficult bosses in the entire game. (note this is pre BC since I quit due to the lack of challenging content)

A raid is not a 6man 4x as hard.

Like I said if anyone thinks this way they are part of the 98% of the game that will never raid end game current content.

[Zekk]

Originally Posted by Barsh

There is absolutely no comparison between the 2. NONE

Anyone that believes otherwise has never raided current content end game. What is current end game content? Well for example take EQ and lets take a random expansion say plains of power. The Plane of Time was the end game raid content for that expansion. The next expansion comes out with a level increase so everyone gains 5 levels. Well Plane of Time as that point is now trivial and not end game.

You can only do so much in a 6 man instance, no significant add spawns or horrible zone wide AE for 3k damage, or having 4 sets of classes having to perform a specific thing at certain parts of a boss encounter.

6 man can be difficult for 6 people, but there's no way it can match real raids. Now some raids are easy, no question about it, but as you progress they are extremely unforgiving.

You will find alot of 6 man will actually "flag" you for real content

Now for example if you clear fire temple in closed beta, that was difficult for 6 man as the level cap was 30 and I think only one group did it, but you go into fire temple as a group of 34-35 its a joke I'm sure.

The sad thing and I hate harping on this as well is a large part of this game's player base started in a game like wow, where really nothing at all was difficult, everything was scripted, and there was a total of 2 difficult bosses in the entire game. (note this is pre BC since I quit due to the lack of challenging content)

A raid is not a 6man 4x as hard.

Like I said if anyone thinks this way they are part of the 98% of the game that will never raid end game current content.

Agreed, Raids do represent a test of organization and skill. Its just that WOW raiding is what most people seem to refer to.
And hell even SOME WOW raiding was well scripted and presented a challenge.

I guess what these people want is AoC style raiding, aka a bloody joke, that you get bored of after doing it twice.


EQ had some pretty harsh and unforgiving raids, Avatar of War comes to mind.
WoW also had them, Nef and most of Naxxramas(the vanilla WoW version) and Brutalus(being a copy of AoW); Hell Karazhan had one of the most fun bosses in that game, Shade of Aran.
VSOH had a single raid encounter that was not broken, so I can't even comment on this.
AoC did not had hard or skillful raids except for 2 bosses in the game:
Kylikki(a TIER 1 boss) and Yaremka. Period, the rest of the encounters that were "unreachable" were intentionally blocked by funcom or bugged so you couldn't kill them.

Skillfull and unforgiving raids, did they exist? Yes, but chances are, 90% of the people posting in this thread never played them on their 1st version.


But if I had to choose NOW what would be the perfect format for raids, I would go for:
6 Man Dungeons, challenging but not hard. Completable in an hour.
12 Man Raids, again challenging but not hard. Completable in 1.5-2 Hours.
12 Man Single Encounter Raids, Hard. Completable in 1 Hour
12 Man Raids, progressively harder with an end boss that will make babies cry. Completable in 2-3 Hours.

Nothing much higher than that, but base all of them on skill, movement and coordination.

[Niwoe]

I'm not necessarily against all raids- 12 people would be just fine for me. This thread is titled 9001 raiding vs. 6 man instance though - given that choice I'd go with 6 man.

I just don't want to see 40 man raids. Even 25 seems like a lot.

"But if I had to choose NOW what would be the perfect format for raids, I would go for:
6 Man Dungeons, challenging but not hard. Completable in an hour.
12 Man Raids, again challenging but not hard. Completable in 1.5-2 Hours.
12 Man Single Encounter Raids, Hard. Completable in 1 Hour
12 Man Raids, progressively harder with an end boss that will make babies cry. Completable in 2-3 Hours."

sounds great to me. But for pvp now- the more the merrier .

[Knoxx]

For me I like having both small scale instances and large scale raids, I've been a raid leader before and it's enjoyable co-ordinating the efforts of a larger group of players. Yes it can be frustrating at times dealing with idiots but I think with more people oyu have more oppurtunity to incorporate complicated game mechanics where certain people have to be doing certain jobs whilst others focus on different tasks - whilst with a six man group the scope for that is extremely limited.