PvP No skills?

[Midgarsormr]

I would just like to chime in and say that FFXI WAS TEH BEST THING EVER. SQUARE ENIX WHY WON'T YOU SHOW YOUR NEXT PROJECT.

That is all.

[Kyero]

Originally Posted by Datippa

Kyero I'm not talking about armor, stats, weapon or GW.

The gear thing was directed at your other thread, I didn't mention stats, and...I'm aware that you weren't talking about GW. =p I was just stating that it's not a MMO just in case you decided to use it against my armor argument.

But what u said "Though...I wouldn't mind more skills/interrupts so we're all not just mashing 1,2,3 ect." is what I mean by counter. Interrupting enemy that is trying to cast a big spell at us or kite, root us to dead. but not just 1 button that counter all spells and skills.

I can't think of any skill that counters all spells or skills.
As for the interrupting/kiting/root thing, just about every MMO has that..don't they? What I meant was more variety in attacks. Using one attack the majority of the time(after or during the kiting/rooting) gets old pretty quickly.


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Actually, I don't even know why we're arguing anymore. XD
We both want a more interactive PvP system with a diverse set of skills to play around with. Let's just leave it at that. =P

-Kyero

[Calindor]

Originally Posted by Endrance

Casting and being able to interrupt that cast is already one thing that rarely takes place in any MMO (it did in FFXI). Also, countering one spell doesn't actually only mean to interrupt it. If different spells have a different range, you could try to run away as soon as you see it casted... use a invisible Skill having a high cooldown to make it detarget you or as a Templar for example use a Shield Bash or something. Though if a MMORPG is pretty much based on PvP and you still want it to have many Skills and be complex, and also a Party Game where everyone has to know their job to succeed, it's pretty hard to balance it (though not impossible). I have yet to see this kind of perfect game and I hope to see that kind of system being implemented in Aion. I really hate button-smashers that don't demand anything from someone (and could easily be played by a stupid bot) with a passion.

I think L2 style pvp is just what you're looking for, there is interruption, but there are no real "godly" skills to be interrupted that have a long re-use. The only really long cool down skills in L2 are buffs, and skills that tanks get to increase their defence by like 1000% (they cannot move when this skill is on, but they can still hate and use agression).

I guess you could call it a button masher, but for example a Rogue in WoW versus one of the 3 dagger characters in L2 involves the same style of button mashing, the difference is that WoW rogues depend on building up the combos and then using skills that range in power by depending on the amount of points you've built up (L2 has some similar classes, but theyre more simplistic, and the points only determine the damage of a skill you will do). Whereas L2 daggers just have some simple self-buffs (evasion, run speed), debuffs like reduce enemies defence, damage and accuracy. They depend on using blows to deal a lot of damage to a char, they can take damage fairly well, but they only have a certiain % of landing the blow, it is much more successfull from behind the target, so they have skills which make the target expose the their backside, or make that person lose/switch their target, run behind and get a blow off.

[Dekar]

Reflexes /= skill

Skill is knowing your class well AND knowing thy enemy. It is knowing when to use which skill, how to chain them, how to optimize whatever you are doing, how to counter.

It is having the instinct to go out of your routine premade order of skills to adapt to a new situation or to aim at a new objective.

Basically, if you can macro your kills on things like the G15 keyboard or N52, so that pressing a single button will execute everything in the right order at the right interval allowing you to sip your Coca-Cola while the macro kills your enemy unaided, the game failed.(it works well in PvE for some games and classes though =0p)

I can understand prefered or optimal skill chains, but you should have to improvise and react every so often to your enemy's actions, lure him into doing what you want him to do, and outplay him.


Edit: COMBOS, interactions between classes, is what I'd really like though. FFXI did a barely ok job of it(I only played at release and for 2 months, I don't know if it got better), but nothing will ever beat Chrono Trigger's character interaction THAT is for me the summum of combo, and I have never seen anything even remotly close to it since :/

Re-edit: little Chrono Trigger combos tribute :

YouTube - Chrono Trigger Combos: Move Along

YouTube - Chrono Trigger Combos: Move Along

[Datippa]

Originally Posted by Dekar

Reflexes /= skill

Skill is knowing your class well AND knowing thy enemy. It is knowing when to use which skill, how to chain them, how to optimize whatever you are doing, how to counter.

It is having the instinct to go out of your routine premade order of skills to adapt to a new situation or to aim at a new objective.

Basically, if you can macro your kills on things like the G15 keyboard or N52, so that pressing a single button will execute everything in the right order at the right interval allowing you to sip your Coca-Cola while the macro kills your enemy unaided, the game failed.(it works well in PvE for some games and classes though =0p)

I can understand prefered or optimal skill chains, but you should have to improvise and react every so often to your enemy's actions, lure him into doing what you want him to do, and outplay him.


Edit: COMBOS, interactions between classes, is what I'd really like though. FFXI did a barely ok job of it(I only played at release and for 2 months, I don't know if it got better), but nothing will ever beat Chrono Trigger's character interaction THAT is for me the summum of combo, and I have never seen anything even remotly close to it since :/

Re-edit: little Chrono Trigger combos tribute : YouTube - Chrono Trigger Combos: Move Along

My friend,

Every time u post I got more respect for u. haha
Its nice to see someone that thinks like me. I been trying to point that out in the other post for a while. reflex is the skill in mmo along /w knowing strategy and how each class plays while adapting to the situation on the fly. Counter make people change up playing style while giving every class an equal chance. Unless u don't care about getting counter and you just wanna keep trying the same pattern of attack all day. plan a head so you wont be counter. kinda like playing mortal kombat and tricking someone to jump at you then u do an upper cut. hahaha ( I had to use that example. classic) you probably wont get that one unless you grew up with MK. Cheap but its not my fault people are stupid. knowledge is skill.

Midgarsormr

I hope its a new FF online but faster gameplay /w a little more PvP, same epic story easier to LFG but the same fun group gind atmosphere. Oh and a new mini fishing game sega bass fishing along /w Sega Extreme Hunting 2. (fishing rod and gun not included.) hahah PWN!

[Kolossus]

Damnit, I should have voted no for the 'lawl' factor.

AFK, I'll be the one running into a wall, swinging away like a blind man boxing.

[hits79]

Originally Posted by Kolossus

Damnit, I should have voted no for the 'lawl' factor.

AFK, I'll be the one running into a wall, swinging away like a blind man boxing.

lmao lol

[Rizzmoe]

Hmmm... Nice results for so many complaining, that you should only be able to win a PvP-fight by having the right class and not simple by having skill

Once again, what's wrong with having the chance to counter everyone just by playing the right tactic with your class? The one knows how to handle an enemy, the others don't, that's the difference between a good player and a bad one in my opinion, not that stupid stone-scissor-paper system!

[BaXx]

WTF who votet for no skills xD

[Datippa]

lol see its a sick world. just when u think u know everything u know nothing.

[pLayGrr]

PVP in MMOs is no easy task, not if you wanna be at the top of your class. Yes after you pvp with your class you might know what skills are best VS that and this situation. But tbh the stuff that require skills in MMO is not only to be aware of what skills to use, but to use them at the right time, all the time, to know when you should withdraw to recharge you hp, mp etc, push the right potions, switch to that weapon, stun that person, kill this class before the others, and do it all in a perfect balance so you keep your self alive and your teammates. thats the part that require skills in MMO. to do it all in the right moments and be able to see the future of the battle, predict what your foes will do before they do it.

[JunSakurada]

Originally Posted by pLayGrr

PVP in MMOs is no easy task, not if you wanna be at the top of your class. Yes after you pvp with your class you might know what skills are best VS that and this situation. But tbh the stuff that require skills in MMO is not only to be aware of what skills to use, but to use them at the right time, all the time, to know when you should withdraw to recharge you hp, mp etc, push the right potions, switch to that weapon, stun that person, kill this class before the others, and do it all in a perfect balance so you keep your self alive and your teammates. thats the part that require skills in MMO. to do it all in the right moments and be able to see the future of the battle, predict what your foes will do before they do it.

QFT, then once you get all that down you have to do it faster than your enemy.

[Celestin]

I voted "no skills" simply because I couldn't tell if this was some kind of joke question or some kind of actually deeply profound rhetorical question or what... This is question is kind of like asking somebody if they would like an umbrella when it's raining outside.

[pLayGrr]

Originally Posted by JunSakurada

QFT, then once you get all that down you have to do it faster than your enemy.

Exactly, thats what show if u got skill or not...

[Datippa]

Originally Posted by Celestin

I voted "no skills" simply because I couldn't tell if this was some kind of joke question or some kind of actually deeply profound rhetorical question or what... This is question is kind of like asking somebody if they would like an umbrella when it's raining outside.

sounds like a joke right? but its not thats why its sad. people keep stating how they hope aion will have balance classes. but on a next thread we talked about how each class should be able to handle another class on a equal playing field by having counter skill & spells this will allow more SKILL instead or RPS (Rock, Paper, Scissor) class system. some people said its not a FPS no real skill in mmo. That is why I made this post. Counter spells and skill (interrupt, cancel, silence whatever u wanna call it) will give everyone a chance to win vs any class if they play their cards right. Balancing the playing field between classes is the key /w out making them all the same. Another way to Balance out classes is to make everyone's stats and spell the same. But that is DUMB!

Note as i said before there wont be one counter spell/skill that counter all. U'll have couple of counter /w a CD (cooldown). Depending on what your enemy is casting u'll have to cast the right counter spell/skill before the enemy get his cast off.