Most wanted changes by Korean beta testers.

[Cynthe]

Originally Posted by Alafarus

this is true, point and click, controls, they're junk. i wonder how the koreans are dealing with ASWD controls lol


Alaf~

They can use both... ^^ I think..

[Shilenne]

Let me rephrase my post in a better way.

Lineage 2 was released before WoW. WAY before WoW, improvements were made that resulted in the smooth camera and movement in WoW. So comparing the two games together to make racial stereotypes about koreans is ignorant.

Click and move system was in every game previously before WoW came out. And oh btw? You can move with adws in L2, it's just not as smooth that's all.

A lot of koreans actually played Warcraft, a lot of them dominated it too. For most asians gaming is a part of their culture.

Aion is a game currently in the BETA phase, that means it's not complete. And for those making comments about testers when they're not even testing the game themselves, seriously, how mature can you be? Have you never heard not to speak until you know accurately what everything's about? If you haven't actually played the game, especially not the FINAL version of it, why make comments at all like you have?

[Ether]

Originally Posted by Zyuu

Mark and I talked about what happened in this thread and we've decided to reopen it. We will moderate it heavily and if you go way too off-topic and/or start whining like crazy or just spam you will get infractions or suspended from AionSource. I just went through the thread and cleaned it up a bit.

Please remain polite and understanding when you post. We all have different views on what we'd like to see. Rather then jumping the gun and being all over someone for their views, try to discuss it in a constructive way.

Just a reminder. Arguments/discussion is fine, as long as we keep all points to the topic and don't resort to insults.

[Irisviel]

Originally Posted by Alafarus

this is true, point and click, controls, they're junk. i wonder how the koreans are dealing with ASWD controls lol


Alaf~

You can play Aion with ASWD. It's not like Koreans doesn't know that ASWD is better than click to move. They are just too used to games like Lineage 1 and Lineage 2. Not to mention these games were released way before WoW.

[XRadium]

I'm glad they actually brought up important issues. I'm sure fixing those will enhance the gameplay, that is already pretty good.
As for server down, I'm confident this won't be much of a problem in the future.
I'm more concerned about 1 though, sicne there's no mounts whatsoever, flying seems to be the only way to travel (except by walking). How do they expect to fly from a place to another if we don't have the necessary time, or even if we get attacked on our way there?

[Irisviel]

Originally Posted by XRadium

I'm glad they actually brought up important issues. I'm sure fixing those will enhance the gameplay, that is already pretty good.
As for server down, I'm confident this won't be much of a problem in the future.
I'm more concerned about 1 though, sicne there's no mounts whatsoever, flying seems to be the only way to travel (except by walking). How do they expect to fly from a place to another if we don't have the necessary time, or even if we get attacked on our way there?

There is a "taxi service" along with teleport service. You can't travel everywhere by flying atm, because of flight restriction zones. Pretty much walking/running is the only choice to get to where there are no taxi service or teleportation.

[Frein]

Originally Posted by Shilenne

Lineage 2 was released before WoW. WAY before WoW, improvements were made that resulted in the smooth camera and movement in WoW. So comparing the two games together to make racial stereotypes about koreans is ignorant.

Click and move system was in every game previously before WoW came out. And oh btw? You can move with adws in L2, it's just not as smooth that's all.

Click and move was in every game before WoW? Orly? EQ didn't have it, AO didn't have it, FFXI didn't either... In fact, I can't think of any pre-WoW non-Korean MMOs that were click to move except UO and that's from 1997. Here's a funny quote I found on the Mabinogi discussion board:

Dear Asian MMO Developers,


It's no longer 1998. No WASD option is unacceptable. Click to move is unbearable.


Love,


the 21st century.

Though to be fair, Aion does obviously have the keyboard movement option. I just fail to see the importance of the click to move option as it will be phased out anyway and all that will be left are the annoying systems that support that kind of movement scheme (auto-face).

Already long before I discovered Aion on forums that need not be named, I've ranted about the Asian MMO developers' inability to move on with the times. It's like they stubbornly refuse to evolve and instead insist on making the same game with the same core mechanics and design philosophies over and over. The exposure to WoW will do the Asian MMO industry a lot of good, I just hope it won't be lost in the masses as there are so many MMOs with so many subscribers in that area.

A lot of koreans actually played Warcraft, a lot of them dominated it too. For most asians gaming is a part of their culture.

Correct, however, I'm afraid those WoW playing Koreans are dwarfed by the more conservative Lineage and mass produced MMO crowds.

By the way, was my earlier post deleted? Why?

[sumuji]

Priston Tale 2 is pretty big in Korea and getting ready to launch soon there and they have both point and click and WASD options.

[Katsuro]

Originally Posted by Mark

Or base spawn times on the number of players in an area. Sheesh, you'd think they'd thought of that by now.

The Level of said players would also be useful. So you don't have a level 60 camping a level 20 spawn for items and being nyerker...

[Irisviel]

Originally Posted by Frein

Click and move was in every game before WoW? Orly? EQ didn't have it, AO didn't have it, FFXI didn't either... In fact, I can't think of any pre-WoW non-Korean MMOs that were click to move except UO and that's from 1997. Here's a funny quote I found on the Mabinogi discussion board:

Though to be fair, Aion does obviously have the keyboard movement option. I just fail to see the importance of the click to move option as it will be phased out anyway and all that will be left are the annoying systems that support that kind of movement scheme (auto-face).

Already long before I discovered Aion on forums that need not be named, I've ranted about the Asian MMO developers' inability to move on with the times. It's like they stubbornly refuse to evolve and instead insist on making the same game with the same core mechanics and design philosophies over and over. The exposure to WoW will do the Asian MMO industry a lot of good, I just hope it won't be lost in the masses as there are so many MMOs with so many subscribers in that area.


Correct, however, I'm afraid those WoW playing Koreans are dwarfed by the more conservative Lineage and mass produced MMO crowds.

By the way, was my earlier post deleted? Why?

Well, Diablo 2 isn't a mmorpg but it was click to move, and hmm... Japanese mmorpg Uncharted Waters Online is also click to move. I play with AWSD since I am too used to it from playing tons of FPS shooting games but some people who sometiems have to play with 1 hand only might prefer click to move than AWSD. I personally think having both options wouldn't hurt, they are basically telling people to play in whichever way they prefer to.

Your previous post kind of had racism comment against Koreans or something I think. Although I don't remember what you exactly said.

[Shilenne]

Originally Posted by Frein

Click and move was in every game before WoW? Orly? EQ didn't have it, AO didn't have it, FFXI didn't either... In fact, I can't think of any pre-WoW non-Korean MMOs that were click to move except UO and that's from 1997. Here's a funny quote I found on the Mabinogi discussion board:



Though to be fair, Aion does obviously have the keyboard movement option. I just fail to see the importance of the click to move option as it will be phased out anyway and all that will be left are the annoying systems that support that kind of movement scheme (auto-face).

Already long before I discovered Aion on forums that need not be named, I've ranted about the Asian MMO developers' inability to move on with the times. It's like they stubbornly refuse to evolve and instead insist on making the same game with the same core mechanics and design philosophies over and over. The exposure to WoW will do the Asian MMO industry a lot of good, I just hope it won't be lost in the masses as there are so many MMOs with so many subscribers in that area.

By the way, was my earlier post deleted? Why?

Or maybe you didn't realize the fact that they're trying to adjust to both the needs of people.

There are some ppl that prefer to hold the phone on their right hand and then move the keys with their left hand while they talk and play at the same time.

Then there are others who prefer to hold the phone on the left hand and then stroll along things with their mouse while they talk and play at the same time.

Some ppl rotate hands.

Therefore, they made both systems (I didn't know they had click to move but whatever) that way it'll better suit the needs of players. And just if you didn't know, you can make your character run by pressing down and holding both keys of the mouse say if you need to in WoW. (I'm just saying it's similar to moving your character with the mouse only)

It's not like Aion had the same system as L2 did, where even if you choose to move by keyboard it'll run super slow comparing to if you just click to the place you want to run.

I've played Aion with keyboard movements mainly, since I'm so use to it from WoW. But I question your ability to comment how "stubborn" the developers are when you fail to see the needs of both sides of the party, which is something they've actually accomplished in Aion. Therefore, can I ask, who is the stubborn one here?

I'm not criticizing your opinions, I'm only asking you to be more fair on your comments instead of seeing only what you want to see in order to successfully argue your point rather than the entire concept as a whole. It can be rather misleading to the rest of the community here which can influence their judgment of the game caused by false propaganda or biased opinions.


All the games you named were released either after L2, roughly around the same time, or not so much previous of it. The Click to Move system was VERY HUGE back then, even if a "new keyboard movement" came along. As Irisviel pointed out, Diablo 2 was also click to move. Therefore some games had time to adapt and change accordingly, while others were already formed and rather hard to redesign. It's like saying, why's my stupid snow shovel so hard to use compared to my neighbour's snow blower? Obviously because one existed before the other, which probably led to the invention of the other.

Let me explain to you how invention and innovation works. Something's invented, then people try to perfect it and make it better and better until someone realizes that this invention is out of date no matter how well you polish it, then someone came along and invent a new and better system. Rinse and repeat.

You cant deny that even if a new thing came out, starts to gain popularity, there would still be a large population who prefer the old system, and so things that came out then may still adopt to the old system rather than changes. For example, in many cities now the metropass or transport passes are rechargable, which means new monthly passes did not have to be printed every month. Yet in Toronto, sadly, there would be a new pass printed every month which is bad for the environment somewhat and also quite wasteful (the money spent on reprinting the passes over and over can be put to better use somewhere else). But going off topic, I just wanted to point out that changes occur slowly then, so accusing L2 and using it to say how every korean game (I highly doubt you've played all unless you want to tell me that you speak and read korean and somehow manage to play the games that were never released in US/EU version) is "of a certain way" which eventually lead to your generalization of all korean gamers is rather rude and short sighted.

L2 had keyboard movements, I don't think it was there in the very beginning, but they added it, which means they did want to appeal to the taste of the keyboard movers. However, the system with keyboard movement is extremely slow (compare to clicking where you want to be) and frustrating.


Your previous post was also removed because you added a rather sarcastic and somewhat of an attack to Korean gamers in general, you claimed that "they've only played L2 or other FREE MMORPGs". It's both untrue, and somewhat insulting.

Correct, however, I'm afraid those WoW playing Koreans are dwarfed by the more conservative Lineage and mass produced MMO crowds.

I can see that you are generalizing all korean MMORPGs using the example of Lineage 2, and the few other MMORPG that somehow made their way to the US/EU crowd.

WoW use to be very huge in Asia when it was first released. It was only until they begin to change the entire concept of the game in TBC did people begin to dislike the game. I'm sure this opinion is shared not only be korean gamers but also by other gamers in the US/EU region.

[Marady]

Well said. It seems that the devs are making this game easy to adapt to no matter what your preference. I've also read somewhere that you can toggle between both styles of "strafing" to be used. I prefer to strafe with "q" & "e", but some people prefer "a" & "d."

The fact that this is even being offered shows that they seem to be in touch with the little things that overall contribute to a great game.

I'm desperately searching for more info about the overall "crispness" of the interface and movement in the game. Does the game use more or less newtonian physics?

A huge pet peeve of mine in LOTRO was if I jumped off a rock or ledge, and spun my character around in mid air, I would do a mid air you turn and land back on the rock at the bottom of the arc. This bugged me to no end! Newton would be so ****ed!

I guess I got spoiled by the jump spin shoot mechanics of you know, that other game. I'm not holding my breath for the same level of twitchyness, but I at least want my object in motion to follow the laws of the universe. Shilenne if you could elaborate on this a little bit it'd make my day.

[Fyrtenheimer]

While I do not use C2M, removing it would be a silly idea. I'm failing to see how "nability to move on with the times..." has anything to do with this subject considering this game, as far as I know, has both options which was stated in your post. Using wasd and C2M means to continue forward but not leave behind a familiar 'tradition' (no matter how unfamiliar it is to you).

Btw, WoW went retail in Nov, 2004. L2 went retail in America in April, 2004 and a year prior for Korea. WoW also has the Click-to-Move system with a camera style.

There's no need to get upset over particulars in a game that's still in its early stage. There looks to be room for changes before launch, and even then launch date is never a deadline. It is a problem when it's dragged on for so long with what looks like no intention to fix, change, or remove :P.

Regardless this post shows some current state of affairs with the game, that's always a good thing.
Thanks for posting.

[Frein]

Originally Posted by Shilenne

Or maybe you didn't realize the fact that they're trying to adjust to both the needs of people.

There are some ppl that prefer to hold the phone on their right hand and then move the keys with their left hand while they talk and play at the same time.

Then there are others who prefer to hold the phone on the left hand and then stroll along things with their mouse while they talk and play at the same time.

Some ppl rotate hands.

Hold the phone? What? Rotate hands?
You know, I really like to eat steak when I'm gaming, I demand a hands-free system! How about a voice activated interface? Oh wait, that wouldn't work with juicy steak in my mouth... hmm... I got it! Auto-pilot!

Ok that was sarcastic, but you get my point. You don't even need click to move to move your character while talking on the phone as you can press W or whatever key you have as forward movement with your left hand or alternatively hold down both mouse buttons with your right hand. You'll be handicapped holding a phone regardless of how the controls are.

I've played Aion with keyboard movements mainly, since I'm so use to it from WoW. But I question your ability to comment how "stubborn" the developers are when you fail to see the needs of both sides of the party, which is something they've actually accomplished in Aion. Therefore, can I ask, who is the stubborn one here?

What other side of the party? The other side of the party absolutely needs an outdated and inferior system that they will repeatedly lose with? I'm certain everyone coming into Aion will eventually stop playing with click to move because they get slaughtered in PVP. I'm assuming the PVP mechanics are deep enough that this will happen. If not, the game probably shouldn't try to focus on PVP as it wouldn't be able to compete with WoW unless the abyss system somehow is so great that it blinds people from the shallow combat.

All the games you named were released either after L2, roughly around the same time, or not so much previous of it. The Click to Move system was VERY HUGE back then, even if a "new keyboard movement" came along. As Irisviel pointed out, Diablo 2 was also click to move. Therefore some games had time to adapt and change accordingly, while others were already formed and rather hard to redesign. It's like saying, why's my stupid snow shovel so hard to use compared to my neighbour's snow blower? Obviously because one existed before the other, which probably led to the invention of the other.

I know it was very huge, practically every game out there today still use it. I've played tons and tons of Korean MMOs, I just can't remember their names but let me try to pull some from the top of my head: RO, Lineage, Legend of Mir, Flyff... and I remember at least a couple more but I only played them for a day or two so I can't remember their names. Anyway, they were all the same with the exception of graphics, and I didn't even mention other games I know but haven't actually played.

Now, you say many of these games are simply so old that they didn't have the chance to use a newer system, perhaps so, but I must stress the fact that WoW did not invent keyboard movement and a game does not have to be newer than WoW to have it. Did they just make a ton of MMOs in 1998 and then suddenly stop? I don't think so. It's true that many of the earlier keyboard movement based MMOs hadn't yet perfected the method, though, and while they provided much tighter response to the player's commands, they were nowhere as smooth as WoW.

Also, Diablo 2 is not an MMO, it's an action game and in case you were wondering, no MMO has ever had gameplay that resembles D2 even if they had click to move and an isometric view.

Let me explain to you how invention and innovation works. Something's invented, then people try to perfect it and make it better and better until someone realizes that this invention is out of date no matter how well you polish it, then someone came along and invent a new and better system. Rinse and repeat.

Yes, too bad it took them so long to realize their system really is outdated.

Your previous post was also removed because you added a rather sarcastic and somewhat of an attack to Korean gamers in general, you claimed that "they've only played L2 or other FREE MMORPGs". It's both untrue, and somewhat insulting.

I didn't claim they've only played those games, I said most of them. I'm pretty confident it's true and not racist in the slightest. Black people have coloured skin! Wow, that was racist!

I don't want to appear hostile towards Koreans, no, I have great respect for them as gamers. I know in the early days some of the greatest WoW players were obviously Korean and I do follow their StarCraft pro league games. I just hope we don't have to resort to paranoid censorship on the forums.

[Irisviel]

Wow.. how about just shut the hell up already? Aion has both features so why do you frickin care? Don't play the god damn game if you think it sucks or Koreans are stupid for not ditching click to move. So what if they are outdated, can YOUR country make a game any better than Lineage2? FINLAND? never heard of Finland making a game ever, so let's see if YOU could be the one to make a mmorpg under your country's name huh?

Again, no one asked you to play Korean games ok? Go play Blizzard's "noob friendly" World of Warcraft.