Idea on other payment scheme for casual gamers

[Kaldur]

Hardcore and casuals are allowed to go for the monthly fee, don't get me wrong, my point is that if you want a high quality article you must be willing to take care of it and maintain it.

[flyboyx26]

Of course, no sense in buying a Porsche if you can't afford the maintenance costs and insurance payments

My post was more or less directed at those that associated monthly fees strictly with hardcore players.

I do agree that players that are reluctant to paying a monthly fee should resort to a F2P that caters more to their needs. With that said, I'm glad Aion isn't one of those games.

[Terpsichore]

F2P games cost more than p2p, because you need to spend ton to not suck.

[BahamutKaiser]

There is alot of ways to look at this, consider this, if you spent an hour at an entertainment center, lets say the YMCA or your local pool hall, how much would you spend, just that night. Games don't require physical locations, but they do require physical hardware and bandwidth to offer a strong gaming experience, your paying for a passtime. They may pay less for physical medium, but maybe more on redevelopment and live assistance.

15 dollars for a month, that is 50 cent a day, how many hobbies can you enjoy as little or as much as an MMO for 50 cent a day? Lets say you only play a grand total of 40 hrs a month, 10 hrs a week, less than 2 hrs a day on average, what hobby can you enjoy for 40 hrs that only cost 15 dollars? I understand there is also a retail cost to buy the game, and in all honesty, I think it should be abolished for subscription games, for the sheer relavence of allowing people to pick up and play the game for a few months without committing retail cost not knowing if the game is worthwile, which they may not like. And also it is obvious that many MMOs are inferior to WoW or other AAA MMOs, if they arn't the good, or they are getting dated, they should consider a cheaper subscription, maintenance isn't going up in cost.

I don't think this is a problem of whether $15 is too much, but rather how broke some people are. I do believe that dated cost models need to be replaced, like cheaper subscriptions if your going to pay for the actual content every year or two as well as the retail of the initial game, or if it is subscription heavy, the retail cost should go down, it isn't really a $50 game if you pay $50 and you have to pay $15 just to get started, at least one or two free months should be given. But that doesn't actually mean that $15 is alot of money, I mean really, when I worked at blockbuster they handed out some bogus statistic saying the average hardcore gamer spent $400 a month on video games.... I was like, the average hardcore gamer doesn't have $400 in their budget for video games, they must be talking about the average delinquent gamer. But rather, how much more value do you get from playing an MMO for 15 dollars a month than buying a new console game at retail every two or three weeks to fill the same amount of time?

I don't have a problem with $15 a month, though I do expect the payment to be matched in quality, which is why I'm such a picky player, and I don't expect to pay AAA subscription for an A title or a dated title either, that's just price gouging, and people wonder why WoW has the most subscriptions when they offer the most for $15... duh?

Considering the fact that most people playing MMOs are spending an obnoxious amount of time, even casually playing the game, I think it isn't too much to pay, for a good game. But effective marketing is always a reasonable measure. Wile it may seem like a good idea to gouge inactive players, if they don't value the game and don't pay, it doesn't benifit them. Rather they could make a less economic but more flexible plan which allows a sum of gameplay time to be divided along a longer period of time, it may be a good marketing tool, so long as they can get their worth out of the player for it. $15 for a month, $5 for a week, $15 for 90 hrs over a 3 or 6 month period. May sound like it doesn't make as much money, but the truth is, the people who often pay less are not actually paying less because they play less, but rather because they have trouble coming up with more money, so someone may pay $5 a week only because that is what he can get his hands on, only to spend $5 more a month.

Some people will pay $15 a month for a week of gameplay, so it can work in their favor, but honestly, how many people stay in an MMO if they can't put more than a week out of the month into it?, they don't grow fast enough to stay current, they don't get as much value out of the subscription, and so on.

Intelligent payment models are a good thing to consider, only when considering them, the consumer and the provider must both benifit from the deal, so if it means paying $40 for 3 months, or $50 two hundred hours of gameplay, both parties need to be properly rewarded. Flexible payment methods are just another way for games to cater to a larger community of players, and since growth creates referals creating more growth, even if it isn't the most vampirous payment method, it may actually create alot more money and reputation for a game.

[danstaff]

Originally Posted by flyboyx26

I don't see how a $15/month is necessarily for hardcore players only? I consider myself a casual player and have no qualms with dishing out monthly fees. I understand that people have this notion that if they don't play X hours because they're paying a 15/month then they're wasting their money. However, it's like any other service. I pay $30/month for DSL, but don't feel obligated to downloading a certain amount or browsing a certain number of hours to feel like I'm getting my money's worth. Lastly, the monthly fee doesn't just go to your game time, but also towards maintaining quality service for everyone.

I'm all for the monthly fee because I've noticed a higher standard of quality from games that have this pricing plan (naturally).

Nuff said... *tosses flyboy a beer*


im out

[Anuxinamoon]

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

Intelligent payment models are a good thing to consider, only when considering them, the consumer and the provider must both benifit from the deal, so if it means paying $40 for 3 months, or $50 two hundred hours of gameplay, both parties need to be properly rewarded. Flexible payment methods are just another way for games to cater to a larger community of players, and since growth creates referals creating more growth, even if it isn't the most vampirous payment method, it may actually create alot more money and reputation for a game.

Thats exactly what I mean. Its not about getting the same as everyone for less its about paying the same or even more for a more flexible option. It doesn't even need to be for casual gamers, it can be for anyone who likes that kind of option.

It's not that the customer that pays 15 dollars a month for 50 hours should feel like they are being ripped off because someone payed 30 dollars for 60 hours. Its about adding diversity to the payment scheme that works out best for all parties concerned.

This wont make it like a F2P game. This is just a different payment method for the Pay to Play business model. Just they pay for their time differently.

I don't understand the big deal about it. It basically the same thing. You pay 15 dollars per month, I pay 15 dollars for 30 hours. we still both pay to play a set amount of time. It just gives people more options to play with.

[flyboyx26]

I think its just a matter of execution. A per monthly charge works well because its already defined by our calendar. When you do things like charging for X hours, days, whatever.. companies have to find out what price works best to get the most people. You might agree with paying $15/30 hours but not everyone wants that? The $15/month fee's derived from years of other MMOs trying out different payment options. If they do decide to include other options, they'll have to experiment and see which ones yield the most customers.

Oh, and thanks for the beer lol

[Zanny]

Honestly, its like internet providers. Right now, you get unlimited for a monthly fee. Now the internet providers are catching on that they can milk alot more money out of people. I feel its only a matter of time till some "big" MMO like WoW or Warhammer pulls this trick and starts charging per hour, and thats where the game becomes a prison, like internet access.

[danstaff]

lol... paid per hour would be such a pain in the ***. I dont think itll ever happen. AOL WAAAAY back in the day was $ per hr and they switched for a reason.

I think most people would even rather pay extra to keep an unlimited plan. I think people are just being cheap tbh lol, pay the 15$ a month and play. Eat 1-2 less combo meals at mcdonalds and youll be fine.

If you don't eat fast food... then come over to my house once a month and mow my lawn, ill pay your aion subscription for gods sake.

[Calindor]

like i said, how many players unwilling to pay the $15 would now play if they could per hour? And how much would NCSoft lose with a system like that?

[BahamutKaiser]

The point isn't paying per hour, the point of paying per hour is for those who don't play alot to only pay a little for several months rather than sum every month reguardless of use.

TBH I've been mulling over payment models alot, If I had a good game to market, the first thing I would do is give it a cheaper retail package, of $40, than make the first few levels and basic startup free, only requiring subscription to move into the deep content. Like Aion for instance, if you charged less for the retail, and let anyone who had the game to play as much as they like but at a maximum of lvl 10, than charged a subscription to move onto the flight quest and the significant part of the game. First off, people who bought the game will play, people who can't afford it for a wile or for the moment will still get on and get interested in the game, and it cost nothing but the retail to get started. Since you bought the game, a limited amount of access is permitted permenantly ensuring that you could pick it up and interact with the community and basic gameplay even if your not currently willing to pay for it, it's basically like an open visitation club which still has a charge to truely participate. Like a Bowling alley, your allowed to hang out there and become aquainted with the social atmosphere even if your not there to bowl, but by being there your naturally inclined to join in, everyone else is doing it.

With that, a 15 dollar subscription fee in order to enjoy the advanced content like flight and such, and if you drop your subscription, you character loses flight and gets his level temporarily scaled back down to 10.

Personally, I don't have any interest in a pay per hour model, even if it offers flexibility for casual gamers to pay less for sporatic play, naturally, because that isn't me, but I can see the value in it. Rather, I'd be more impressed if the game wasn't tied down to character development so those who don't play often arn't at a massive disadvantage overall vs consistant players, and that the quality and content available and added to the game was competative for what is being paid on a regular basis.

The important thing is flexibility and inclusion. Just like in game design and development, you want to include the maximum number of elements available to you in order to market to a wider variety of players, it doesn't matter what the "majority" is, nor what "has worked" already, because they do not need to abolish or replace existing options in order to include new ones, they can have multiple options. Finding a way to get more people to try the game, remain in the game, revisiting even if they can't pay, and spreading it's community thru word of mouth referal are heavy ways to heap in more money, it's just business.

[flyboyx26]

I don't really buy in the whole bowling alley analogy. With a bowling alley, you can go in, not pay to play and still interact with people in the alley. However, that's because everyone's in the same building, within a certain vicinity. With an MMO, its not exactly the same. There will be people in that area, presumably all those that can't afford a subscription, but socializing in an MMO usually accompanies all the other features of an MMO: questing/instancing/pvping. The only people the non-subscribers would be socializing with are lowbies or other non-subscribers that can't experience any of the content beyond level 10. In that case, all I can see are people spamming because they're bored to death of being stuck at max level. If they were given global privileges to socialize with the community, then I can only see them mimicking previously said behavior. If I were to make another analogy, it'd almost be like going to a theme park. You get there, you don't have to pay for a ticket essentially but.. you're stuck outside, where all the content isn't at.

As for the game being tied down to character development, that's how it works I'm afraid. People invest different amounts of time into a game and their character should portray this. Otherwise, what other incentive is there to spend time leveling, pvping, and/or end-game raiding? Scaling game content for those that aren't consistently playing is too picky IMO. That group of players would have a significant range of hours played. For example, you'd have to scale content for someone who plays 3 hours a week, someone who plays 10 hours a week, and someone who plays 40 hours a week. Thats why they do monthly subscriptions.. or else you'd basically be asking how many hours each player plays then forming some pay-per-hour model off of that.

I'm not against pay-by-hour models or whatever.. I just feel they're too difficult to properly establish. If these models were truly feasible for business, they'd be used right now. The amount of transactions you have to deal with by players going on/off week by week.. well I'm sure they'll need a top notch Billing department for that.

[Zyuu]

$15 is cheap for a casual player and a hardcore one. You get access to something fun for 30ish days and it only cost you $15. Buying a movie costs more. Going out costs more. Etc. . What entertainment is cheaper then that?

With how low the dollar is these days, I'm surprised all major MMO's doesn't raise the cost to around $20.

[danstaff]

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

The point isn't paying per hour, the point of paying per hour is for those who don't play alot to only pay a little for several months rather than sum every month reguardless of use.

TBH I've been mulling over payment models alot, If I had a good game to market, the first thing I would do is give it a cheaper retail package, of $40, than make the first few levels and basic startup free, only requiring subscription to move into the deep content. Like Aion for instance, if you charged less for the retail, and let anyone who had the game to play as much as they like but at a maximum of lvl 10, than charged a subscription to move onto the flight quest and the significant part of the game. First off, people who bought the game will play, people who can't afford it for a wile or for the moment will still get on and get interested in the game, and it cost nothing but the retail to get started. Since you bought the game, a limited amount of access is permitted permenantly ensuring that you could pick it up and interact with the community and basic gameplay even if your not currently willing to pay for it, it's basically like an open visitation club which still has a charge to truely participate. Like a Bowling alley, your allowed to hang out there and become aquainted with the social atmosphere even if your not there to bowl, but by being there your naturally inclined to join in, everyone else is doing it.

With that, a 15 dollar subscription fee in order to enjoy the advanced content like flight and such, and if you drop your subscription, you character loses flight and gets his level temporarily scaled back down to 10.

Personally, I don't have any interest in a pay per hour model, even if it offers flexibility for casual gamers to pay less for sporatic play, naturally, because that isn't me, but I can see the value in it. Rather, I'd be more impressed if the game wasn't tied down to character development so those who don't play often arn't at a massive disadvantage overall vs consistant players, and that the quality and content available and added to the game was competative for what is being paid on a regular basis.

The important thing is flexibility and inclusion. Just like in game design and development, you want to include the maximum number of elements available to you in order to market to a wider variety of players, it doesn't matter what the "majority" is, nor what "has worked" already, because they do not need to abolish or replace existing options in order to include new ones, they can have multiple options. Finding a way to get more people to try the game, remain in the game, revisiting even if they can't pay, and spreading it's community thru word of mouth referal are heavy ways to heap in more money, it's just business.

Sounds too complicated when it really doesnt apply to that much of the player base. Its pretty much standard for an mmo to have a free month with the game purchase. Wow had a free trial account where you could play til...lvl20? there wasn't even a limit onhow many you could setup, all you needed was an email address. It was mainly used by botters so they could save subscription money by lvling to 20 for free before converting to the full game.

Blizzard had to turn around and block mail trades, personal trades, auction house usage, guild chat and i think grouping too. They had to do all of that JUST because of the potential harm that could be done by botters.

last i read it sounded like there were only specific mats that could be collected with the "human"(1-9) gathering technique and if your 10+ youd have to purchase those mats from low levels or make an alt. So a free play from 1-10 wouldnt work because it might just mess up the economy and make things easier for botters.


There has been a ton of mmo's created since WAY back in the day with UO and EQ. I've never heard of a payment system so complicated. Ive never seen massive complaints posted from people on any of the forums demanding such a system was implemented.

If people want to play this game and they can be compared to...lol...bored people at bowling alleys who are just there to spectate then they may just want to keep signing up for trials over and over again so they can get their 3 hrs of aion a month lol. Besides even in a bowling alley your probly going to get a dirty look after weeks of spectating and the guy who sprays down the shoes is gonna come rough you up and tell you to get out or buy a beer and play.

^^ AKA - nothings free, choke up your 15$ a month and support ncsoft financially for the great game they supply and hope they use that money to improve it further.

Me personally? I dont care. The only reason i would care is if it becomes too much of a pain in the *** to change the plan and restrictions etc that ncsoft would implement. Then it might bug me... cuz that means more delays on release. No one wants that. Especially when it effects so few players who imo should just suck it up and pay the 50 cents a day to play it.


Bottom line imo - If you have a computer that can run Aion at release then you can afford 50 cents a day. If the people that complain about the subscription fee deny that ... then they are cheap. They can pay me 25 cents a night to come over and watch me play over my shoulder

I'll Pay 15$ a month for unlimited access to that server and if i dont use it then thats my fault. You wont see me outside there corporate office with a picket sign demanding $14.27 of it back.



ok im done

PS Im glad this is a free forum and im not getting charged by the letter.

[Garvan]

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

The point isn't paying per hour, the point of paying per hour is for those who don't play alot to only pay a little for several months rather than sum every month reguardless of use.

TBH I've been mulling over payment models alot, If I had a good game to market, the first thing I would do is give it a cheaper retail package, of $40, than make the first few levels and basic startup free, only requiring subscription to move into the deep content. Like Aion for instance, if you charged less for the retail, and let anyone who had the game to play as much as they like but at a maximum of lvl 10, than charged a subscription to move onto the flight quest and the significant part of the game. First off, people who bought the game will play, people who can't afford it for a wile or for the moment will still get on and get interested in the game, and it cost nothing but the retail to get started. Since you bought the game, a limited amount of access is permitted permenantly ensuring that you could pick it up and interact with the community and basic gameplay even if your not currently willing to pay for it, it's basically like an open visitation club which still has a charge to truely participate.

Don't they already have this covered? The standard payment model is buy the box in the store, included in the price is 1 month of gaming time. WoW had it, I think Eve Online had it, City of Heroes had it... You buy it like a single player game, give it a spin and if you're not interested after 1 month, don't subscribe.

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

Like a Bowling alley, your allowed to hang out there and become aquainted with the social atmosphere even if your not there to bowl, but by being there your naturally inclined to join in, everyone else is doing it.

Uhm... I'm under the impression that every MMORPG has a entrance fee (buy the game client), bowling alleys don't, at least not where I am.

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

With that, a 15 dollar subscription fee in order to enjoy the advanced content like flight and such, and if you drop your subscription, you character loses flight and gets his level temporarily scaled back down to 10.

And if I sign up again, I'll get my stuff back? Sounds backward to me, would be much easier to just deny logon. With that model, if you're not paying, the game is just a over-fancy chat program, as there's not much else to do for a ex lvl 50 character busted down to lvl 10 and stripped of his wings.

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

The important thing is flexibility and inclusion. Just like in game design and development, you want to include the maximum number of elements available to you in order to market to a wider variety of players, it doesn't matter what the "majority" is, nor what "has worked" already, because they do not need to abolish or replace existing options in order to include new ones, they can have multiple options. Finding a way to get more people to try the game, remain in the game, revisiting even if they can't pay, and spreading it's community thru word of mouth referal are heavy ways to heap in more money, it's just business.

A free demo download covers that, doesn't it? No need to touch the method of payment.