DKP in Aions Guild Interface.

[Zanaionic]

i think i may have a possible fix to the Possible Gear Discrimination in Guilds and releive the idea of UNFAIR GEAR DISTRIBUTION in a guild.

We all have heard of DKP in WoW and how it allowed guilds to have their members Spend points to gain gear.

I personally think this worked to an extent but there could be some changes.

In Aion i think that the Guild interface should have a built in DKP system. As Members attend raids and instances and attribute to the guild by adding gear to the Guild bank. Crafting things for each other. Killing raid bosses and instance bosses. and the such would add a Certain amount of DKP to each players name under the guild roster. These Points would later be spendable on Gear in Raids and Instances. The more the Gmember attributes to the Guild the More DKP they will aquire over time.

Raid and Instance Gear will have a certain DKP price. If a Guild member does not meet the DKP requirements they the actual game system will not let that member Roll. Only those who have enough DKP will be able to roll. If they win the Amount will be deducted. If none of the Members with enough DKP do not want the Gear they can choose to forfeit.
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Heres a small idea of how gear should cost:
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Items under lvl 10 will cost 0 DKP and will be able to be rolled on by anyone since these will be the easiest to aquire.

Items lvl 10-lvl 20 will cost anywhere from 500-1000 depending on the Grade they fall under (Uncommon, Rare Legendary, etc.)

Items lvl 20-lvl 30 will cost anywhere from 1100-2000 depending on the Grade they fall under

Items lvl 30-lvl 40 will cost anywhere from 2100-3500 depending on the Grade they fall under

Items lvl 40-lvl 50 will cost anywhere from 3600-5000 depending on the grade they fall under.
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DKP points can be awarded as follows:
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Half of the amount of Qina donated to the Guild bank will be awarded as DKP to the donator.

Crafting items for other Members would award anywhere from 100-3000 DKP depending on the level and Grade of the item created ( i think this scales nicely with the time and effort put into harvesting materials and the like)

In raids, Killing a Raid boss with the guild will award each attendee of the fight anywhere from 500-1000 DKP depending on the dificulty of the Raid boss

In instances, Killing a boss will award anywhere from 100-500DKP depending on the Level of the instance and the difficulty of the boss.
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I think a system like this could easily resolve much of the guild conflict that is based around Gear distribution.

Hope my system makes sense.

[Celestin]

There are a lot of DKP systems e.g. zero sum DKP, negative DKP, etc.

DKP however, is often a huge source of guild drama because it is a very flawed system. There are many reasons, but I'll just give one example.

Member A has raided with the guild for a very long time. He has 2000DKP. He plays a hunter.
Member B is kind of new, but not too new. He has 700DKP. He plays a warrior.

A sword drops. It is obviously more suited for warriors, but the hunter wants it. The warrior puts up 600DKP. The hunter puts up 1000DKP. The warrior can no longer afford the sword and the hunter wins. This is obviously what you don't want to happen.

But how can you deny the hunter the sword? DKP represents what the guild owes you for your contribution to the guild at that moment. You cannot deny the hunter because that would be to deny his contribution to the guild. Unless the item itself is class restricted, you do not really have any fair grounds to deny the hunter.

In an extreme scenario, said hunter can be winning a staff for casters. But once again, he cannot really be denied or else that would be equivalent to ignoring his contributions.

My guild however, used an interesting variant of DKP. It was a negative DKP system with officer decided loot. Officers almost purely decided loot distribution. DKP merely served as a tiebreaker and a limiter on how frequently one could receive loot.

The way it worked was for every boss kill or major contribution you are awarded DKP ( or have a chance to be awarded in the latter case ). When loot is dropped, all individuals who want said item report to their physically present class leaders ( in this case, me ). The class leaders discuss gear nominations and choose one ( rarely two ) members to nominate to the next level. At the next level, the guild leader and all class leaders debate guild nominations and an end winner is chosen. This usually takes two or three minutes.

When you receive an item, your DKP is reset to zero. The higher your DKP, the more privilege you have to be at the front of the line so if there are two equally eligible members, the member with higher DKP will win.

In this system, the guild as a whole must have absolute trust in the equality of the officers, however, in my experience, the system is nearly hassle free. As you can see, DKP serves more of a cooldown between receiving drops and can sometimes be used as a tie breaker.

[Shade]

Originally Posted by Celestin

But how can you deny the hunter the sword? DKP represents what the guild owes you for your contribution to the guild at that moment. You cannot deny the hunter because that would be to deny his contribution to the guild. Unless the item itself is class restricted, you do not really have any fair grounds to deny the hunter.

Fairness is in the judgement of God (me). So, I would call the Hunter a dóuche and give the sword to the Warrior; unless the Hunter actually had a valid reason for wanting the sword, the greater good of the guild would be my main concern.

As for an implemented DKP system, I'd like it Even if it has flaws, I'll work around them by being an áss.

[Celestin]

Read my edit.

If you deny the hunter, your guild will no longer be operating on democratic principles. You have to avoid this conflict within the rule set of your DKP system.

[Verth]

Every system has it's flaws and I've used all sorts in my time, the system Celestin talks about was the most fair imo as long as your officers are honest and not biased to their friends or the asskissers of the guild. I also prefer the random roll as well as it provides a non biased side and really just operates on the luck aspect. But to each their own.

[blehz]

Originally Posted by Verth

Every system has it's flaws and I've used all sorts in my time, the system Celestin talks about was the most fair imo as long as your officers are honest and not biased to their friends or the asskissers of the guild. I also prefer the random roll as well as it provides a non biased side and really just operates on the luck aspect. But to each their own.

true true. (but the bold happens everywhere)

DKP is a good system if all peeps play fair
in my ex guild, peeps would pay a specific amount of DKP for certain items (categorized like weapons, class set, cloaks, resistance gear etc...)
you could overbid, which was almost the double of the normal DKP price

when a certain item drops, peeps bid; the normal DKP price, or the overbid (the double)

those who didn't overbid are lost when others did
the winner will be the one with the most DKP

in the case of the warrior/hunter story; everyone should know for themselves what is in the interest of the guild
if the hunter is 'greedy' by taking the sword (which he probably only uses in certain cases) instead of the warrior, then raidleaders should be fair
everyone knows that the warrior should get it, if the raidleader/guild leader decides otherwise without agreement of the warrior, I think guildmembers should take their conclusions out of that


so DKP is a good system if some considerations are taken into account, and not in flavour of irl friends/asslickers (and thats what was wrong in my ex guild, especially about invites, where we had 50 peeps for 40 spots)

[persepha]

zero sum system is one of the dkp systems i dislike a lot, usually i dislike DKP in general especially in wow since it would highly affect hardcore raiders (if you didnt get into one raid ud loose dkp and attendence) which would usually result in people being extremely greedy.

id personally prefer a system that only counts into attendence (people passing raids for others (gearwise) and theyd still get attendence), usually makes people less greedy and more considerate to other guild member. but im sure aion wont be like wow so its hard to say what kind of system is needed to make stuff fair for all in a guild.

[Mr Mage]

Ok dumb question but what does DKP stand for?

[LethalGT]

Originally Posted by Mr Mage

Ok dumb question but what does DKP stand for?

Dragon Kin Points.

[Verth]

DKP if I remember correctly came from EQ and stood for Dragon Kill Points and has just been used in every game that the same point system or other variants is used.

[Mr Mage]

Thank you for explaining that.

[Tareith]

Personally, I still lothe DKP in 90% of it's forms.

[Celestin]

You can't really just deny a person their right to spend DKP over a class questionable item though, which is the core problem of DKP.

In the system I used, because DKP is persistent ( like in all DKP systems ) and only serves as a limiter on the number of items you receive in a timespan, given that there are other people who want items ( technically, if you just got an item and have zero DKP, but another item you want drops and nobody else wants it or is nominated to receive the item, you will receive the item with no penalty ) so attendance is automatically taken into account.

[Xenicide]

DKP is a flawed system. I can't tell you how many times I've lost items on WoW because of DKP. Some *** would get **** for an offspec because he had more dkp.

[Shmak]

Thott invented DKP, the guy that started the guild "After Life" on Mith Mar back in EQ. He still runs Thottbot. I find it kind of awesome that his guild influenced the future of MMOs through the way that old guild played 9 years ago.