Why do you hate bots/gold farmers ect

[Anjeru]

I know this has prolly been asked before but im unsure.

I'm just wondering why do you/you's personaly hate gold farmers so much?

Also on that note why do you hate bots and people buying toons?

Is it the spam in chat? or the stupid bot killing your quest mobs and so on? the fact some rich kid just brought a toon in the same gear you worked so hard for kinda thing?.

Feel free to vent im just really interested, the other day i was playing wow (yeah yeah bash away) and i was on vent with some guildies and thier all going on about how much they hate goldfarmers and so on, but when asked why noone could give me an answer rofl.

I have reason for hating bots and so on myself and want to see them kept outside of aion (as do we all ^^ ) but i was jsut wondering why you hate them and why do you think its so bad to have the likes of these things in the game.

[Aryan]

If you understand whats going on with the economy now, its pretty similar to what happens with gold farmers.

An external source is injecting massive amounts of wealth into the game economy. The end result is inflation. Items become ever increasingly expensive since gold becomes so 'easy' to come by.

Additionally, it screws over the common joe who doesnt believe in paying to get an advantage in an MMO game. He cant compete with people who buy money with real money. In most cases he is either forced to quit or keep up with the status quo.

Oh and its morally wrong to some.

Thats about it.

[Anjeru]

Yeah thats what i figured, i found while playing a few mmos tho people went utter ape over them, sure they do pump alot of money into the system but they also get thier hands on alot of rare gear and so forth too that you most likly dont want to spend 90 hours trying to get from a world drop and say chuck it up on a ah and you finally get what you wanted aswell?

Ive always looked at it as a 2 way street kinda, i say kinda because its kinda good, maybe a little good but really really bad say 99% of the time

[Endrance]

MMORPGs are momentaly basically about character progression, hence gaining better stats through leveling and gathering equipment. Because it's more enjoyable to be "strong" in a community than in an offline game (where no one gets ****ed off by yourself taking advantages), many people would pay alot of money for, which I find sad, since you shouldn't be able to buy the main core of strength through money, not even in games. Currency sellers are usually disliked more, as they tend to monopolize viable hunting grounds or profitable crafting recipes from actual players.

In short: Currency sellers and buyers are the cheats of MMORPGs. And simply no one likes to be cheated in a multiplayer game.


EDIT: The solution for this is rather simple though. By making gameplay more important in terms of strength than character progression through impementing player-skill oriented real time action-combat, paying a huge amount of money for minor strength increases would pretty much be meaningless.
Character Progression could still be there like it used to be, just in another way than increasing your chracters strength - such as unlocking cooler and harder missions, way cooler looking (while only little stronger) equipment that maybe unlocks harder to use, but little more efficient moves/combo options (which'd provide meaningful gameplay change) or interesting features (very generalized, but there are many options). So the feeling of progression wouldn't be lost, it'd just be of minor meaning. This did work already very well in several action-gameplay oriented RPGs (the most popular one probably being Monster Hunter from Capcom).

[Anjeru]

I'd call it cheating more exploiting.

So dose it make that much of a diffrence if someone else buys stuff? lets say your wearing raid gear right and someone standing next to you is wearing the same gear but he brought his why dose it bother you so much? and why hate the guy who got it to him? i can understand messing up the econ, but what if they were buying gear or toon's would that bother you?

[Cairbre]

Originally Posted by Anjeru

I'd call it cheating more exploiting.

So dose it make that much of a diffrence if someone else buys stuff? lets say your wearing raid gear right and someone standing next to you is wearing the same gear but he brought his why dose it bother you so much? and why hate the guy who got it to him? i can understand messing up the econ, but what if they were buying gear or toon's would that bother you?

I'm not sure what you want to hear. Everybody explained the reasons pretty well. These people have unfair advantages, and not everybody has the resources or the desire to cheat in the game. The fact that they purchased a toon or armor is what is messing up the economy for others. It's all connected, whether you buy money, gear, or a character.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Anjeru

I'd call it cheating more exploiting.

So dose it make that much of a diffrence if someone else buys stuff? lets say your wearing raid gear right and someone standing next to you is wearing the same gear but he brought his why dose it bother you so much? and why hate the guy who got it to him? i can understand messing up the econ, but what if they were buying gear or toon's would that bother you?

Because gathering better equipment (than others) through accomplishments is the current meaning of MMORPGs for the majority of players (especially hardcore players). It's how you gain the upper hand in a MMORPG. Why else would someone play a MMORPG in terms of the game? Sure, people also join MMORPGs to make online-friends, but the core of the game itself is character progression and people simply don't want to be cheated in terms of this. You could call it stupid - it is, (not because someone feels cheated by another, but because the design of the game itself forces this feeling) but that doesn't change the fact that MMORPGs as a game are all about character progression.

[Necrosis]

It goes against the intended gameplay parameters set by the developers. If botting was intended, then it would be implemented in the user interface. If buying ingame currency or items for real money was intended, there would be a cash shop offering that. What it boils down to is that if it's not intended yet still being done, it is cheating. Unlike entering cheat codes in normal games, cheating online affects everyone since it's a competative environment.

Having farmers around just encourages cheating. I can spend weeks farming for some item.... or I can spend 5 bucks and get it from a professional farmer. Even if you work at mcdonalds, 5 bucks is still less than an hour's work (time is money). It just keeps snowballing. And the publishers never see any of this money, some third party is profiting off virtual property they cant actually own (<insert legal jargon here>). At least with a cash shop, you could support the publisher that helps keep the game running. Of course, their spamming is annoying, and their farming can affect other's ability to play the game (such as them taking the good spawns). Even more true if they are organized enough to do things like raids and sieges that ****blocks the economy.

And with botting, it just negates the effort:reward ratio. How are you going to pvp someone who isnt affected by xp loss (in a game where pvp death = xp loss)? It costs them no effort, and so they can only get rewarded. Guess who's more likely to cancel their account when it spirals out of control?

Alot of these games boil down to who can endure grinding the longest and acquire the best gear. This is the RPG approach which replaces alot of skill-based elements with numerical representations. And it makes it easier to cheat simply by modifying the numbers, and when it's done outside the parameters set by the developers, it provides an unfair advantage (as far as competative gaming is concerned).

[Anjeru]

Originally Posted by Cairbre

I'm not sure what you want to hear. Everybody explained the reasons pretty well. These people have unfair advantages, and not everybody has the resources or the desire to cheat in the game. The fact that they purchased a toon or armor is what is messing up the economy for others. It's all connected, whether you buy money, gear, or a character.

I was more aimed at more why you yourself hate them, but it seems you all seem to hate them because of the econ so what if it didn't would you still care then? im going to randomly geuss not.

I was more wanting to see peoples personal reactions and thoughts on them. apart from stating the obvious over and over

[Cairbre]

Originally Posted by Anjeru

I was more aimed at more why you yourself hate them, but it seems you all seem to hate them because of the econ so what if it didn't would you still care then? im going to randomly geuss not.

I was more wanting to see peoples personal reactions and thoughts on them. apart from stating the obvious over and over

Still not sure what you're looking for; I think the only thing to say is the obvious...? I think most of us share the common (but indeed personal) opinion that bots ruin the economy and have an unfair advantage in the game. There is no way that what they do wouldn't do that--it's happening in real life, it happens in game after game. Unbalancing something is going to mess it up, there's no way around it.

If someone loves bots because it allows them to get all the gear and levels they want easily, then that is their personal opinion as well.

[Endrance]

Anjeru. That rather strange post makes you look like someone who only opened this thread to ease his conscience.

[Anjeru]

Yeah see now thats what id call a reason lol you dont want them to ruin the community/devs team. thats good enough reason to me ^^ i understand what you mean tho nec time is money.

[Esencia]

i have always wondered what lineage 2 woulda been like without farmers as they sold im sure like 80% of the materials required for crafting in that game, and I don't think the inflation rate would be much better without them, yes there woulda been less currency in the game but there would have been 100x more demand, therefor creating inflation itself, so i would have been interested in seeing what the economy would have been like with and without the bots/farmers.

[Anjeru]

Originally Posted by Endrance

Anjeru. That rather strange post makes you look like someone who only opened this thread to ease his conscience.

I know alot of wow end game raiding guilds pre wotlk that were running t6 content selling gear and i saw how much damage that was doing to the game, i asked bcause i know why i hate them.

Mine is they turned alot of people into homo's and not the cool gay kind, the annoying 12 y/o with a op toon and gear so i was wondering if people had a personal reason as to why they hate them vs the general hate that we all have for them, e.g freaking 20 people botting hunters in the only area i can kill x mob for y quest T.T .

The other reason i asked was ive asked people why they hate them and they couldnt give me one lol so i was wondering if anyone else had gone threw this.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Esencia

i have always wondered what lineage 2 woulda been like without farmers as they sold im sure like 80% of the materials required for crafting in that game, and I don't think the inflation rate would be much better without them, yes there woulda been less currency in the game but there would have been 100x more demand, therefor creating inflation itself, so i would have been interested in seeing what the economy would have been like with and without the bots/farmers.

Lineage II is completely unbearable without cheating. You can't use this game as reference in such a topic, because it's character progression design fails horribly (while in my opinion the majority of designs in the genre fail, but don't have to be completely unbearable).