Directfeed from Korean forums, Take Two

[Ayase]

Getting addictive to post in this thread. Think this'll be my last one. I will once again remind everyone that this is about the Korean version of the game. The game will have come a long way when we get it out here and we hate bots just as much as you do - but we can't prove this at all before we actually release the game.

I think Koroem's post was covering a lot of issues, so I'll reply to the formulations in it I find relevant (nothing against you mate, I just thought you summarized quite a few interesting points well!).

Originally Posted by Koroem

FACT : The US/EURO release will always be at the mercy of the Korean playerbase. Meaning our version will be no different then theirs except for language, and our input will mean nothing to Korean devs. We are extra revenue for them, never forget that fact.

ACTUALLY : While this may have been the case in last generation games you played before that also originated from Korea, we will in fact be looking to get feedback from the player base and make something of it (Wow! I know, right!? :P). There's always a tight balance between the developers' vision for the game and the many subsections of the community's visions for the game, but wherever there's space, there will be community feedback to fill it up. As you know, Aion hasn't been released yet, but you can count on that it's our plan once it is. Remember, we'll be players just as much as you will be and will make sure to "read the vibe" of the community (again - this is you!), making sure that the game is as good as it can be (the sky's the limit).

Originally Posted by Koroem

FACT : NCsoft loves bots and will do little to nothing about them because they are paying accounts.

ACTUALLY : I don't know where to start with this one! While I haven't worked on any other NCsoft games, I did play Lineage II as a regular player and I've come to see multiple sides of this argument. I can guarantee that we have no love for 'bots' or individuals using them (read: lowlifes - provocative enough?). Each subscription fee earned from a bot is equally or more out-weighed by the loss of a real player. It doesn't make sense from a business perspective, and we sure wouldn't be able to keep any morale up whatsoever if we would be making games for bots. We're running this game for you guys and if you don't like what's happening, then you can be sure that someone internally already issued a team-wide alarm to resolve whatever might be the issue. Important to remember is that Rome wasn't built over a night and even if construction techniques have improved to date, it's a difficult feat to pull off.

Originally Posted by Koroem

FACT : NCsoft will provide lip service and empty promises till the end of time about fixing these issues like every other dev/publisher but will not and can not possibly win the battle against bots, nor balance ranged vs melee in a way a majority of players find acceptable.

ACTUALLY : You are right in that it's very difficult to eliminate the bots and immensely difficult to get balancing close to perfection, but that's not a reason to give up. There's been a lot of negativity on these boards lately and a lot of people don't believe in our ambitions or capability to do this right. It makes me very sad, but we are still as determined as ever to launch Aion here in the west properly and with as few hiccups or disturbing moments as possible. Balancing? We've got time and I'm sure that the landscape will have changed before we release here. Bots? We've got warheads and troops lined up in front-line bunkers to deal with this. It is a bit like that part in the latest Resident Evil movie (not the Japanese one) where the rage-infected zombies are amassing to break down the last fence of the desert laboratory. But like in all movies, the good guys always win, and we're the good guys this time around. Maybe RE wasn't a good example from that perspective, but I think you get the picture.

Originally Posted by Koroem

FACT : You will just have to suck it up and deal with it when US release hits.

ACTUALLY : Don't suck it up! Feedback makes us better. Constructive Feedback. Not the other kind that has to do with brute ogres living in deep forests. There are just a few things to keep in mind.

For this particular case, it's all about the release in Korea. Don't forget that. If you have problems with the Korean version, take it up with them. There are right now hundreds of thousands of players over there that will ultimately make sure that you get a better gaming experience when eventually playing the English version. We'll do our best to have a product that works for the west when we launch it next year and we will be asking you for feedback on how it's running. That's a given. We need to keep a constant dialogue to make the best out of Aion. You're right there, I'm right here. Let's walk and talk.

I've seen some good ideas in other threads on how to combat botting, and if there's something we're not already considering I'll be sure to pass it on deeper into our company hive.

That's all.

+ dancing Kerubims

[Diatress]

Originally Posted by Valkadesh

NCsoft doesn't have any credibility. They're officially historic for their bot issues at this point, and it's far more likely they'll let **** hit the fan once again than suddenly rise up and actually do something. The fact that they're still using GameGuard speaks volumes enough in that respect. They don't care what people say about them, and if they could keep the game running purely off bot accounts, I'm sure they would.

You couldn't be more right.

Ncsoft will never change their in-ability to minimize botting and farmers. It's NOT because Ncsoft doesn't have the technical capability to due so, It IS beacuse they don't CARE. Trust me. They Don't. They never have, and they NEVER will.

Now. The reality is this. Even with all the botting/farmers/hax/exploits/LOLGameguard, the game will still do well in korea, but korean's are crazy ****ing grinders compared to U.S./EU players. What many Koreans do in 6 months takes Americans 10-12 months atleast. Give or take alittle.

2nd - The game will be a HUGE hit in the U.S. in the beginning, many L2/WoW/etc players will flock to Aion for the first 3-4 months atleast. Many will see how bad botting will quickly get, and either cont. playing through that hell again, or join some botting clan (lolNova), or quit.

In the time it took Lineage 2 to become farmer/bot/ebaying infested (about 2 years from start finally push 90%+ of all legit players to finally give in and bot themselves), it will take Aion a fraction of the time. Around 6 Months from Start_Date before Aion U.S. Release hits more Bots/Farmers/Ebayers to match the percentages that exist currently in Lineage 2.
Ncsoft just doesn't care, and probably doesn't get it.

Already many people from L2 are planning to flood Aion botting it up as fast as possible and to cash in big. Dumbshits will buy into it.

So either expect the worst, and if any good comes, i'm sorry there just won't be any =)

-Dia


Ayase

ACTUALLY: ...

Come on buddy.. COME ON.........

MANY MANY MANY Community Managers have spoon fed the community of Lineage 2 the same ******** you are.

Game will be Bot Heaven Period.

NCsoft will do Nothing but ban some here and there do some mass banning and make ABSOLUTELY NO IMPACT.

Tired of this Korean gaming firm ********ting the world into thinking, "We've created a WONDERLAND FOR YOU" Go play and don't forget to Visit IGE on the way and superman/l2walker if you wana get anywhere =) Don't Forget We Support Bots <3

You people make me sick. rofl.

[Kyrein]

Originally Posted by Ayase

Getting addictive to post in this thread.

Another glitch in the Community Coordinator Bot!


It must be all the cookies it's been eating.

[Delux]

Originally Posted by Chob

I trust NCSoft with my life.

Did you finish writing your will yet?

Originally Posted by Kyrein

Another glitch in the Community Coordinator Bot! It must be all the cookies it's been eating.

Quiet you, the propaganda machine NEVER stutters.

[Fleiva]

Originally Posted by Diatress

Ayase

ACTUALLY: ...

Come on buddy.. COME ON.........

MANY MANY MANY Community Managers have spoon fed the community of Lineage 2 the same ******** you are.

Game will be Bot Heaven Period.

NCsoft will do Nothing but ban some here and there do some mass banning and make ABSOLUTELY NO IMPACT.

Tired of this Korean gaming firm ********ting the world into thinking, "We've created a WONDERLAND FOR YOU" Go play and don't forget to Visit IGE on the way and superman/l2walker if you wana get anywhere =) Don't Forget We Support Bots <3

You people make me sick. rofl.

There's a point where you get fed of ********, I've honestly reached it with your post.

Do you understand why people bot? Is Lineage II the only game NCsoft west runs? Does CoX have any bot? GW? Do anyone force you to play NCsoft games? Does anyone force you to read upcoming NCsoft forums? Can you point in the doll where NCsoft touched you?

Why the **** are you still here, it's obvious that you have no faith on NCsoft, it's obvious that you don't want to give them a second chance, get the **** out already then, your destructive feedback isn't doing anything but making an *** out of yourself.

[Diatress]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

There's a point where you get fed of ********, I've honestly reached it with your post.

Do you understand why people bot? Is Lineage II the only game NCsoft west runs? Does CoX have any bot? GW? Do anyone force you to play NCsoft games? Does anyone force you to read upcoming NCsoft forums? Can you point in the doll where NCsoft touched you?

Why the **** are you still here, it's obvious that you have no faith on NCsoft, it's obvious that you don't want to give them a second chance, get the **** out already then, your destructive feedback isn't doing anything but making an *** out of yourself.

I'm here to tell it like it is.

Deal with it.

[Livvy]

Ayase

ACTUALLY: ...

Come on buddy.. COME ON.........

MANY MANY MANY Community Managers have spoon fed the community of Lineage 2 the same ******** you are.

Game will be Bot Heaven Period.

NCsoft will do Nothing but ban some here and there do some mass banning and make ABSOLUTELY NO IMPACT.

Tired of this Korean gaming firm ********ting the world into thinking, "We've created a WONDERLAND FOR YOU" Go play and don't forget to Visit IGE on the way and superman/l2walker if you wana get anywhere =) Don't Forget We Support Bots <3

You people make me sick. rofl.

I think you're crossing the line there. You can disagree with anything but do so in a polite manner . Your post is showing nothing but disrepect towards a person who has been kind enough to post on these forums , giving information and reacting to feedback( the latter is at ayase's own risk by the way, it's risky to do that kind of stuff but the fact it's being done shows respect for the members of these forums ) .


I'm pretty sure they'll at least try to avoid releasing another bot-infested game in western hemisphere . We can only take their word on this , if it pans out it's not succesful : you can always vote with your wallet. For the time being : let's try to give constructive feedback as to how one needs to address the bot-issue . That's far more useful than any namecalling.

My confidence in NCsoft is also at an all-time low ( with the Tabula Rasa debacle ) but I wouldn't think to take that out on Ayase who has nothing to do with that stuff.

[Fleiva]

Originally Posted by Diatress

I'm here to tell it like it is.

Deal with it.

No, you're assuming how it might be, that's quite different. And you're butthurt after your experience in L2, we already got it, deal with it.

[Delux]

Originally Posted by Livvy

Your post is showing nothing but disrepect towards a person who has been kind enough to post on these forums , giving information and reacting to feedback( the latter is at ayase's own risk by the way, it's risky to do that kind of stuff but the fact it's being done shows respect for the members of these forums )

Well, to be fair, Ayase posts here because it is his job; he gets paid to toe the NCSoft company line on English fan communities.

Don't mistake job description ("monitoring and interaction with the community" and "stay cool and respond professionally to trolls and personal attacks in public forums") for kindness.

[t0yo]

see the difference from people who supported Elliot from these ******bags going "OMG NCSOFT DOESN'T CARE AION IS INSTA FAIL"
is that some people actually use some logic in their brains.

Yes albeit they are above the majority of the fanboi logistics they still lack the common idea of Evolving/Change and the different occurrences that take place in different situations.

Bot companies are not going to find it feasible to bot considering its easy as heck to level unlike l2 which took an eternity.

Jumping to conclusions is very ignorant. Even though you can ascertain certain facts from the past you can't let it cloud your judgement

Also whatever NcSoft West decides to throw at us we can't trust them, but that doesn't mean we can flame them. I severely doubt their effect in whatever changes they will want to make in the game. Korean have and always will be stubborn.

How much hold does NcSoft West even have on the korean developers to tell them to implement several features we want?

p.s. was my previous post deleted on page 3 o.o

[Diatress]

Originally Posted by Livvy

I think you're crossing the line there. You can disagree with anything but do so in a polite manner . Your post is showing nothing but disrepect towards a person who has been kind enough to post on these forums , giving information and reacting to feedback( the latter is at ayase's own risk by the way, it's risky to do that kind of stuff but the fact it's being done shows respect for the members of these forums ) .


I'm pretty sure they'll at least try to avoid releasing another bot-infested game in western hemisphere . We can only take their word on this , if it pans out it's not succesful : you can always vote with your wallet. For the time being : let's try to give constructive feedback as to how one needs to address the bot-issue . That's far more useful than any namecalling.

Yea.. I once was a humble naive person like you. After you've played 1 mmo by Ncsoft for as long as i have. You tend to understand just how much ******** they try to push on the community. Many of us had enough. Better we be vocal about it and possibly help others understand and/or help them speak out as well.

This company is corrupt in every sense of the term when it comes to cleaning up thier OWN virtual environment that they create.

Be pis sed ok, that's fine, i want people to be, maybe the community managers that somewhat listen to the Western Division will actually be our voices and not delete our posts, slow us down, and **** us over for 4 years.

I look forward to playing. I just know how bad it will be.

Tens-of-thousands, gullible people, are in for a **** storm =)

[Livvy]

If you read my posts on these forums you will notice I'm hardly being naive - I have seen it all too: back to the days of the good old CBM 64 and ZX Spectrum - or not critical about this game . But there is a difference between being critical and questioning certain aspects of a game in a rude fashion and attacking the spokesperson for the company.

It doesn't add anything, it 's just swearing . People who resort to swearing usually do so because lack any valid argument to prove their point.

"it's like this in game X, so it will be the same in game Y " is not an argument . Elliot's translation of korean forums is however proof , and Ayase has acknowledged this and said they'll be trying very hard to tackle this problem . What more can anyone do ?


Why don't you post solutions then ?

P.S.: I played nearly all titles from NCsoft so I think I know how the company works by now ,thank you very much....

[Ayase]

Originally Posted by Delux

Well, to be fair, Ayase posts here because it is his job; he gets paid to toe the NCSoft company line on English fan communities.

Don't mistake job description ("monitoring and interaction with the community" and "stay cool and respond professionally to trolls and personal attacks in public forums") for kindness.

Cynical, but very valid.

If I didn't have any passion for the game or the community, I wouldn't stay up at 1 am posting here though. I'm just lucky enough to work with something I would probably have done anyway (but don't tell our financial department I said that).

[Fleiva]

There had to be something good in L2 if it hooked you for more than 4 years.

[Diatress]

Originally Posted by Livvy

If you read my posts on these forums you will notice I'm hardly being naive - I have seen it all too: back to the days of the good old CBM 64 and ZX Spectrum - or not critical about this game . But there is a difference between being critical and questioning certain aspects of a game in a rude fashion and attacking the spokesperson for the company.

It doesn't add anything, it 's just swearing . People who resort to swearing usually do so because lack any valid argument to prove their point.

"it's like this in game X, so it will be the same in game Y " is not an argument . Elliot's translation of korean forums is however proof , and Ayase has acknowledged this and said they'll be trying very hard to tackle this problem . What more can anyone do ?


Why don't you post solutions then ?

P.S.: I played nearly all titles from NCsoft so I think I know how the company works by now ,thank you very much....

It is NOT the communities responsilibity to provide solutions to an "Information Systems Security" issue.

I work for a very large firm, doing what i do, if we failed to act in the same way Ncsoft has with failed attempts to resolve such an issue, the world's financial markets would come to an end (wtf didn't that almost happen anyway).

Ncsoft DOES NOT need solutions from anyone. They know what they need to do. It's written in thousands of manuals, documents, courses, etc etc. They don't need any Tech Help.

Ncsoft knows they have to put the funds and budget to fix the issue. Ncsoft has ALREADY realized that this issue will cost them atleast 7-8% of their total budget at the minimum to resolve the issue.

Case being, they invest less than 1 1/2 of a percent if that.

It takes Money to solve this, teams of people, and tbh, it just wouldn't be cost-effective for them to pursue the issue in the same manor Blizzard has.

Hence why they fail to resolve the issue.

Originally Posted by Fleiva

There had to be something good in L2 if it hooked you for more than 4 years.

Friends. Many Many Friends. If i had to play a game i hate, to be with friends i enjoy spending time with (virtually or not). Then so be it. Until many of my friends quit/left atleast.