[Translation] Patch Notes 12/10/08

[Kaldur]

What did t0yo just wrote? it's too long...

[toptier]

Originally Posted by t0yo

At least I still have this thread to rant on Q___Q Mark locked the other one as soon as I was going to post my large response

Well, you're not getting drama from me

[t0yo]

Originally Posted by toptier

Well, you're not getting drama from me

Who are you? @.@

[Infares]

Originally Posted by Chaos_Theory

->"The thousand devs of the NCsoft empire descends upon you. Their nerfs will blot out the sun."

---->" Then we shall QQ in the shade."

Sigged. (10)

[Night_Stalker]

Originally Posted by t0yo

Honestly coming from someone who tries to copypasta 4chan memes to act cool, this statement coming from you lacks all its entirety.

And this is where the problem lies.

Most of your contributions to AS as of late (if you can even call them contributions) have been labelling people based on their personalities, not thought-out arguements. If you look through the last couple of pages, you've called various people fanboys, blind followers, kids, or stupid. I think the point Mark was trying to make when he said that you act like the conversation is over after you post, is that you don't give an arguement in the first place. Most people with a brain will know that no matter what they say, or how accurate their information is, you'll never admit to being incorrect or even slighty off-base. Hell, I already know that by posting this you'll probably slap some rediculous label on me and pass off my post as unintelligent garbage.

Your point of "Elliot's translation > player experience" makes me laugh, especially since 99% of everything that Elliot has translated has been based off the opinions of players. So he shows 2 bar graphs and suddenly everything he says must be 100% true? are you 100% sure that he hadn't selectively picked those population charts to back up his point?

You call yourself a realist, and everyone else blind fanboys? Why is it such a huge problem to you that some people actually enjoy Aion? You even attack people with neutral stances, like you're on some crusade to turn everybody into your pessimistic followers.

Yes the game has problems, nobody denies that. Have you ever seen anybody actually say the game is perfect, and that everything the Koreans say has absolutely no merit? No. but there's a much better way to solve these problems than screaming and kicking at each other until half of AionSource's population, along with newcomers, get scared away.

Originally Posted by t0yo

Nothing personal.

So you just told Mark that he's an attention-hungry loser, and somehow that's not personal?

In a real debate, you make a rebuttle based solely on the information that your opponent presents. You don't use personal attacks on them to try and render their point "invalid", that just shows how much knowledge on the subject you really lack

Just my 2 cents, nothing personal though

[Mark]

It's funny, I don't even notice when people try to talk to me anymore because I ignore massive quantities of posts and skip to people I actually know might be worth reading.

Whoops?

Time for me to do some backtracking, obviously...

[justamemory]

Originally Posted by Mark

It's funny, I don't even notice when people try to talk to me anymore because I ignore massive quantities of posts and skip to people I actually know might be worth reading.

Whoops?

Time for me to do some backtracking, obviously...

i c wut yoo did der.

[elliot]

Originally Posted by Night_Stalker

And this is where the problem lies.
Your point of "Elliot's translation > player experience" makes me laugh, especially since 99% of everything that Elliot has translated has been based off the opinions of players. So he shows 2 bar graphs and suddenly everything he says must be 100% true? are you 100% sure that he hadn't selectively picked those population charts to back up his point?

Those are population charts of the only two servers that opened this week. Is there something more to it?

[Mark]

What about the other thirty servers? Just curious. It's hard for me to navigate Aion.co.kr, everything takes forever to load.

[elliot]

Originally Posted by Mark

What about the other thirty servers? Just curious. It's hard for me to navigate Aion.co.kr, everything takes forever to load.

New servers more accurately depict class choices for players(right now). Old server populations don't really count as current status. Its not like people are gonna delete characters that they leveled? I don't know its just old statististics VS new statistics i guess? They were around 15~17% in old servers.

[toptier]

Originally Posted by elliot

New servers more accurately depict class choices for players(right now). Old server populations don't really count as current status. Its not like people are gonna delete characters that they leveled? I don't know its just old statististics VS new statistics i guess? They were around 15~17% in old servers.

Too bad you used the data of servers that opened before the new patch was rolled in to argue that the new buffs for Rangers did nothing.

And I agree with Night_Stalker

[Livvy]

Your point of "Elliot's translation > player experience" makes me laugh, especially since 99% of everything that Elliot has translated has been based off the opinions of players. So he shows 2 bar graphs and suddenly everything he says must be 100% true? are you 100% sure that he hadn't selectively picked those population charts to back up his point?

You call yourself a realist, and everyone else blind fanboys? Why is it such a huge problem to you that some people actually enjoy Aion? You even attack people with neutral stances, like you're on some crusade to turn everybody into your pessimistic followers.

Yes the game has problems, nobody denies that. Have you ever seen anybody actually say the game is perfect, and that everything the Koreans say has absolutely no merit? No. but there's a much better way to solve these problems than screaming and kicking at each other until half of AionSource's population, along with newcomers, get scared away.

You got to be kidding if you think any potential new players would be scared away by these translations or any opinion voiced here . You most definitely overestimate the influence of any forum on a game's success . Most folks playing games don't even read forums or write posts on them.It's only folks who actually care enough about any outstanding issues who bother to signup for game forums . The vast majority doesn't get past the homepage of the game itself to read possible patch notes .


Forum translations are always based on opinion, anyone not realizing that isn't even part of a forum . He could have translated the patch notes and be done with it ,but what use is that It just doesn't mean anything if the discussion regarding those notes isn't translated as well- be it his own views or those of others . You might as well translate Aion's frontpage then . That's not news - in terms of how the game is evolving - the news is how players think patch affects the game ..

It's total BS to just read the latest patch notes for WoW- for example - if you have no clue how this will affect the actual gameplay . The only way to know that is by reading that from players actually playing the game .


I always say: if you can't stand the heat,get out of the kitchen . a Forum like this is meant to have discussion on issues described by players ( in this case the only folks actually playing the game are in Korea ) , else there is no point to it. That means you must have serious debate - while remaining polite and sticking to arguments put forward ,not attacking persons themselves - on those opinions and make suggestions or offer ideas .

Those discussions are vital to make sure the developers know how a patch affects the game . I once talked to a WoW-GM and he told me - off the record - developers don't even read threads which are not critical of the game because they have no value for them . They want to know what can be improved ,not what's already deemed very good feature .

[t0yo]

Originally Posted by Night_Stalker

And this is where the problem lies.

1. Most of your contributions to AS as of late (if you can even call them contributions) have been labelling people based on their personalities, not thought-out arguements. If you look through the last couple of pages, you've called various people fanboys, blind followers, kids, or stupid. I think the point Mark was trying to make when he said that you act like the conversation is over after you post, is that you don't give an arguement in the first place. Most people with a brain will know that no matter what they say, or how accurate their information is, you'll never admit to being incorrect or even slighty off-base. Hell, I already know that by posting this you'll probably slap some rediculous label on me and pass off my post as unintelligent garbage.


2. Your point of "Elliot's translation > player experience" makes me laugh, especially since 99% of everything that Elliot has translated has been based off the opinions of players. So he shows 2 bar graphs and suddenly everything he says must be 100% true? are you 100% sure that he hadn't selectively picked those population charts to back up his point?

3. You call yourself a realist, and everyone else blind fanboys? Why is it such a huge problem to you that some people actually enjoy Aion? You even attack people with neutral stances, like you're on some crusade to turn everybody into your pessimistic followers.

4. Yes the game has problems, nobody denies that. Have you ever seen anybody actually say the game is perfect, and that everything the Koreans say has absolutely no merit? No. but there's a much better way to solve these problems than screaming and kicking at each other until half of AionSource's population, along with newcomers, get scared away.

5. So you just told Mark that he's an attention-hungry loser, and somehow that's not personal?

6. In a real debate, you make a rebuttle based solely on the information that your opponent presents. You don't use personal attacks on them to try and render their point "invalid", that just shows how much knowledge on the subject you really lack
Just my 2 cents, nothing personal though

1.Contributions? I don't think anyone besides the translators and wiki team can consider any post they make a contribution. Its just one person *****ing at another about their opinions. Well some people seem to misinterpret the audience I was targeting towards. Apparently most of you labelled me as Elliot's advocate just because I proceeded to defend him against unwarranted claims. I basically did call a few people fanboys, blind or kids because they react so negatively just because someone decides to criticize a game. Especially when such bashing of criticism is basically inciting all that happened here. If I did call people stupid it was based on sheer anger I won't deny that. However if you feel I was arguing with people based on their personality rather then their arguments its because our actions/arguments define who we are as a person, so indirectly I was.

When did I ever deny my wrong doing? I know my ranting was a bit anger excessive lately but then again people always like to point out the things that are negative because its easier. It was never meant to be an argument even though you insinuate the fact that I have no brain, a person with such knowledge would know how to spell two words in the English language :P p.s Ridiculous Slightly, Rebuttal

and before you take that comment seriously, I'm only joking, I make grammatical errors all the time

2. The reason I said that because if you think about it, generally speaking the opinion of a number of people on an experience (I say experience because it doesn't require knowledge to express how it feels, at least in this situation) is generally better then the individual. Why? Because instead of gauging the experience factor off of one person who could have different tastes from us, it would be gauged on a group of people with different play styles with different expectations. So in general it would bring more a realistic imposition to the idea brought out. It's not always the case but considering the koreans do have more knowledge and experience in the game.

When the hell did I say its 100% true? See I get really annoyed when people get so hypocritical about issues. First you mention about judging people on their arguments not personalities and consider it wrong but then again you do the same thing and its all in a different light ;D. I just said that compared to other people he has more "factual" backing because the opinions ahd choices of the koreans mean more then most people here.

3. You think I don't? I totally understand the fact that people love Aion because I do too. Actually I'm the biggest Aion Fanatic in my guild, and I'm constantly told to stop talking about it xD the difference is that these types of people are basically setting the centre stage for hyping Aion to be something its not because of all the negativity towards it they try to hide. Basically the general idea of Aion will be to expect something more then it is which will basically end up with people going

"Omg Aion sucks all the promises and nothing new"

If they really were realists then they wouldn't take it so personally when someone posts negative aspects about Aion. I don't remember attacking anyone on neutral stances, I only heavily voiced my displeasure with people who were so...naive about Aion that any negative comment they received about it they'd lash out like hungry hyenas.


4.No, but then again have you ever seen Elliot say he hates Aion? We all draw conclusions from what people say.
However if a person is going to take their opinions over the koreans who actually played, then yes I do not see it logical what so ever. If something is broken is broken, even if he hand picked what to show and what not to, the fact is that its still happening. I totally agree and I feel annoyed that I got caught up into this posting frenzy because my emotions do get the better of me but at least I don't jump to conclusions that just because a guy says negative things about the game he's evil

5. XD! So just because I told Mark that he acts cool because he posts 4chan memes I said that? Wow then I guess everyone is all of those then, considering a majority of people post 4chan memes not only on this site but on the whole internet. I guess if I judged people by their personalities and not by their thought out arguments


6. In a real debate we wouldn't be on a forum? Honestly all elliot's threads have turned into war zones because people couldn't handle negative information about the game. If you're only going to lecture me about debating make sure you make a segment about it on the forums, I'm sure a lot of other people would need it too
Although kudos you basically briefly analysed me the same way I used to do to other people, considering your rebuttal consists of only personal attacks. However I actually enjoyed reading it

Originally Posted by Night_Stalker

And this is where the problem lies. have been labelling people based on their personalities, not thought-out arguements.

I suppose you raise the bar for debaters all around the world but sadly I never called my style of posting debating ;D But if you're willing to shove more words in my mouth I'm sure you'll find a lot to do :P

[Mark]

I'm sick of numbered lists and long replies. You guys aren't even discussing the patch anymore.

Goodbye thread.

[Fleiva]

Originally Posted by elliot

New servers more accurately depict class choices for players(right now). Old server populations don't really count as current status. Its not like people are gonna delete characters that they leveled? I don't know its just old statististics VS new statistics i guess? They were around 15~17% in old servers.

All of the "old servers" (The first 16 that were opened pre-OB) have at most a 10% in rangers and spiritmasters. They were never popular to start with.