Is it just me or is AS whacked

[Moses007]

I mastered cooking with relatively no problem (obviously the easiest), alchemy to 380, tailoring and handicrafting on my SM to high 300's and decided to pickup AS on my cleric as a second master along with cooking.

I made a pair of pants today (level 43) that took 206 Orichalum. To refine the ore into the wire, chain and plate I needed, it cost me about 480,000 kinah JUST TO REFINE THE ORE to usable items. This doesn't take into account the high-grade aether and ore i needed or the worth flux. To farm everything farmable, these pants cost me almost half a million in non-farmable vendor mats TO CRAFT A GREEN! That is also leaving the time to craft out of the picture, which probably came close to 30 minutes of crafting/refining crap.

I am new to Armorsmithing so please forgive me if this has already been whined about, but am I the only one that thinks this is a bit over the top? The fine charcoal really needs to be kicked to the curb. I can deal with the crafting time and the farming, but to have to spend 300,000 to a vendor, just to turn the ore into a ignot is just too much. I won't be crafting anything anymore to wear, until I am working on level 45+ blues or golds. I just thought Id craft some pants on a whim. Handicrafting requires nothing to turn ore to an ignot. Im not sure about weaponsmith. I spent half a million crafting a green that is comprable to a green drop i could have bought from the broker for 350,000. It just boggles my mind. Seems like the reward for leveling the profession isn't really a reward at all.

[ChuMann]

Originally Posted by Moses007

I made a pair of pants today (level 43) that took 206 Orichalum. To refine the ore into the wire, chain and plate I needed, it cost me about 480,000 kinah JUST TO REFINE THE ORE to usable items. This doesn't take into account the high-grade aether and ore i needed or the worth flux. To farm everything farmable, these pants cost me almost half a million in non-farmable vendor mats TO CRAFT A GREEN! That is also leaving the time to craft out of the picture, which probably came close to 30 minutes of crafting/refining crap.

Armorsmithing sucks until you're expert. Then you can easily sell items at 5-10x the cost. My advice is to avoid making armor until you're an expert. People don't yet, and maybe never will, understand that armorsmithing is one of, if not the most time consuming and raw consuming profession around.

Mind you, I myself am not an expert, and this is only my opinion based on my server's (Vaizel) economy.

[Organic]

Originally Posted by Moses007

I mastered cooking with relatively no problem (obviously the easiest), alchemy to 380, tailoring and handicrafting on my SM to high 300's and decided to pickup AS on my cleric as a second master along with cooking.

I made a pair of pants today (level 43) that took 206 Orichalum. To refine the ore into the wire, chain and plate I needed, it cost me about 480,000 kinah JUST TO REFINE THE ORE to usable items. This doesn't take into account the high-grade aether and ore i needed or the worth flux. To farm everything farmable, these pants cost me almost half a million in non-farmable vendor mats TO CRAFT A GREEN! That is also leaving the time to craft out of the picture, which probably came close to 30 minutes of crafting/refining crap.

I am new to Armorsmithing so please forgive me if this has already been whined about, but am I the only one that thinks this is a bit over the top? The fine charcoal really needs to be kicked to the curb. I can deal with the crafting time and the farming, but to have to spend 300,000 to a vendor, just to turn the ore into a ignot is just too much. I won't be crafting anything anymore to wear, until I am working on level 45+ blues or golds. I just thought Id craft some pants on a whim. Handicrafting requires nothing to turn ore to an ignot. Im not sure about weaponsmith. I spent half a million crafting a green that is comprable to a green drop i could have bought from the broker for 350,000. It just boggles my mind. Seems like the reward for leveling the profession isn't really a reward at all.

This certainly has been a bone of contention, along with the sheer amount of time needed to actually craft all of the ingots for each armor attempt, for quite some time. I don't see them doing anything about it as, after all, it's just money. Also, we do have green recipes to work from and don't require the double proc that handicrafting, weapons in alchemy, or weaponsmithing require. Money's always earnable, though it wouldn't be completely unreasonable for the devs to take a second look at the sheer costs of crafting the item (especially with the Daevanion armor set and plenty of green/blue armor pieces through drops and quests) should enough of us voice our concern.

[Vidrak]

I would agree that the vendor, non-farmable, non-player driven, materials are much too expensive. I am not an Expert yet, but have made a lot of money crafting armor. But 90% of the time, I can't make a profit. The times I have made money usually fall within a short window of when certain materials are posted up cheap on the broker. Only then can I make any sort of money. Then within a couple days to a week, all those materials are 3-5x what they were before, and the armor sells for a mere fraction of what it costs to make it.

The problem is people posting crap on the broker have no clue what it costs to make stuff. Everyone I have made armor for is like, "WTF!?", when I tell them the cost of the vendor materials just to make the ingots/plates/chains/etc.

Personally, I think the prices of vendor materials should drop considerably, and have the actual player economy drive the prices of the armor/materials. I can see if they want crafting to be a large money sink in the game (which it is, often times you are spending 50%+ of the cost to make an item on vendor mats), but I think it is a little overboard, to the point of making crafting gear pointless to an extent.

Right now, I pretty much harvest some materials and make my own gear every 5 levels, and I don't worry about procs, I just make a set and put it on. Sometimes if I proc blues, I will sell them and make more items, and usually just settle for a green set for myself. I figure I am going to out level it fast, and I can always make it for myself, so might as well capitalize now while the capitalizing is good

But the costs of many items right now, I would sadly attribute to "Gold Buyers and Sellers". They need to get this crap under control, ban every last one of them, and then ... finally, we may have a chance at a more stable and reasonable economy.

[Organic]

Originally Posted by Vidrak

The problem is people posting crap on the broker have no clue what it costs to make stuff. Everyone I have made armor for is like, "WTF!?", when I tell them the cost of the vendor materials just to make the ingots/plates/chains/etc.

I remember the first time that happened for me. I was crafting a chest piece and it cost 28,000 in charcoal and acid. The guildy handed me all the craft mats and then I said, "Okay, I'll need 28k kinah to craft it" and he about wet himself. And that's just for one attempt and a lower level item at that. Kinda crazy that you can often find the crafted gear up on the AH for less than what it'd cost you to craft it.

[agieas]

Originally Posted by Moses007

I mastered cooking with relatively no problem (obviously the easiest), alchemy to 380, tailoring and handicrafting on my SM to high 300's and decided to pickup AS on my cleric as a second master along with cooking.

I made a pair of pants today (level 43) that took 206 Orichalum. To refine the ore into the wire, chain and plate I needed, it cost me about 480,000 kinah JUST TO REFINE THE ORE to usable items. This doesn't take into account the high-grade aether and ore i needed or the worth flux. To farm everything farmable, these pants cost me almost half a million in non-farmable vendor mats TO CRAFT A GREEN! That is also leaving the time to craft out of the picture, which probably came close to 30 minutes of crafting/refining crap.

I am new to Armorsmithing so please forgive me if this has already been whined about, but am I the only one that thinks this is a bit over the top? The fine charcoal really needs to be kicked to the curb. I can deal with the crafting time and the farming, but to have to spend 300,000 to a vendor, just to turn the ore into a ignot is just too much. I won't be crafting anything anymore to wear, until I am working on level 45+ blues or golds. I just thought Id craft some pants on a whim. Handicrafting requires nothing to turn ore to an ignot. Im not sure about weaponsmith. I spent half a million crafting a green that is comprable to a green drop i could have bought from the broker for 350,000. It just boggles my mind. Seems like the reward for leveling the profession isn't really a reward at all.

One major problem now is the rising cost of the expert flux's needed to make these designs. As long as the price keeps rising its like any economy around. Demand will increase the price. When you first put something on the AH you get a set price that is like the "worth" of the item. You can see these fluxs (ones needed to expert a craft) and the expert fluxs them selves are way over priced by thier value. But, you have to have them so the price is going to keep going up. Until enough flood the market and drive down the price of the flux.

[steveb]

The truly irritating part is that people try and sell fluxes for 2.5 million each and then turn around and complain about the price of crafted items.

Anyone else broke from failing the expert quest 4 times (so far)?

[RamzaBehoulve]

Originally Posted by steveb

The truly irritating part is that people try and sell fluxes for 2.5 million each and then turn around and complain about the price of crafted items.

Anyone else broke from failing the expert quest 4 times (so far)?

Unless you have legion support, I strongly advise against attempting Expert quests before many more people are 45+.

[Stupid]

Originally Posted by Vidrak

I would agree that the vendor, non-farmable, non-player driven, materials are much too expensive. I am not an Expert yet, but have made a lot of money crafting armor. But 90% of the time, I can't make a profit. The times I have made money usually fall within a short window of when certain materials are posted up cheap on the broker. Only then can I make any sort of money. Then within a couple days to a week, all those materials are 3-5x what they were before, and the armor sells for a mere fraction of what it costs to make it.

The problem is people posting crap on the broker have no clue what it costs to make stuff. Everyone I have made armor for is like, "WTF!?", when I tell them the cost of the vendor materials just to make the ingots/plates/chains/etc.

Personally, I think the prices of vendor materials should drop considerably, and have the actual player economy drive the prices of the armor/materials. I can see if they want crafting to be a large money sink in the game (which it is, often times you are spending 50%+ of the cost to make an item on vendor mats), but I think it is a little overboard, to the point of making crafting gear pointless to an extent.

Right now, I pretty much harvest some materials and make my own gear every 5 levels, and I don't worry about procs, I just make a set and put it on. Sometimes if I proc blues, I will sell them and make more items, and usually just settle for a green set for myself. I figure I am going to out level it fast, and I can always make it for myself, so might as well capitalize now while the capitalizing is good

QFT. You are a wise man.

[snoopykoo]

Just fyi, handicrafting costs more to make the ore into ingots than armorsmithing.

And I've failed the expert quest six times so far. And yeah... I'm dirt poor.

Edit: Make the 8 times, just failed 2 more.

[Juiblex]

IMO armorsmithing is very broken. Last weekend I made some helms 1 for myself and 3 to sell on the market from the items I have gathered and hoping maybe one would proc a blue to make some money. None did no big deal sell them and make back most of the cost right, wrong. A few were already listed about 10% below cost to make so I listed them at the same price I can live with a little loss. I check back the next day to see the prices and there were 2 more listed at a 40% loss, WTF! So I thought maybe they are making a killing on the blues so I check the blues price and it comes out that assuming 1 in 5 proc blue and you sell all items you are losing about 12% overall. I don't know what it is, are people just not calculating the costs or just ignorant but you cannot make money with this profession it seems.

[snoopykoo]

The trick to making money with AS is to check the broker BEFORE you craft, and then craft something that has little to no competition (and craft a small amount... this last part is key, because you don't want to be stuck with a dozen items when everyone floods the market with super low prices). I was selling level 33 breastplates for 300k each (the green ones) for about 3 days... made some really good money, then everyone and their mother started making the 33 breastplates and the market price dropped to 90k (which is a ridiculous loss %... like 50%?), so I stopped. I already had my blues for myself, so meh. Right now, the market on Azphel is actually pretty open when you look at the lower level crafts (the 23 and 28 sets), and while they don't offer the profit margins of the higher level sets, a profit is a profit.

[steveb]

Originally Posted by RamzaBehoulve

Unless you have legion support, I strongly advise against attempting Expert quests before many more people are 45+.

Yeah.. I haven't had legion support. Up to level 46.5 I've gotten all of 3 worthy premium fluxes as drops. The rest have been purchased. FOr my first try they were around 350k. Since then they've consistenly been over a million each.

[Juiblex]

Originally Posted by snoopykoo

The trick to making money with AS is to check the broker BEFORE you craft, and then craft something that has little to no competition

Yeah that works till the next day when someone dumps items on the market for 20% below what you have them listed for when your already taking a small loss. I guess it was double bad luck for me proc and timing wise and my mistake in assuming people wouldn't sell stuff for a massive loss overall.

[snoopykoo]

Yeah... that is (sadly) a good assessment.

I do find that the expert crafters sell in much better harmony with material costs (and they can, because there are much fewer of them and the items they craft start out as top tier equipment). So if you think of it that way, it's just a matter of waiting for the crowds to clear. Then again, sooner or later, there will be lots of expert crafters too, so it's never a sure thing.