Planning new computer for the Aion? Read here!

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by Kalean

The cheapest 3850 is 130 dollars for a 256mb model. With the 512 coming in at 150, the 9600 GT can ALSO be had for 150.

Price depends on your region, but definately - check what you can afford and the best product in that price range, common sense.

Originally Posted by Kalean

You have one major flaw in your calculations, if you are comparing GPU clock speeds of a 3850 and 2600 series...that proves my point. Clock speed for gpu's are only compared in apples to apples comparisons...You can't compare two gpu's of different architectures in terms of performance via clock speed. PLUS...GPU speed means NOTHING if their isn't enough video memory for it to calculate all those textures...It will bottle neck and be held back by the lack of memory..Which is what happens when you take 256 mb cards into a 1650x1050 or 1920x1200 resolution...The ABSOLUTE maximum res I recommend for 256 mb cards is 1280x1024...no higher, at that point, the performance loss becomes huge...

It seems you didnt understood my post at all, by gpu speed I meant exactly that - gpu speed, not just its clock. Also you seem to overestimate memory size, as much as its important, its not all in all, as I just showed this lowly card blazing 77fps in FarCry at 1680x1050 with AA and AF on. It seems you think from Crysis perspective, just imagine MMO with such demands

Nice review of majority of cards to see their relative performance in FarCry:
techPowerUp :: HIS HD 3870 IceQ3 Turbo 512 MB Review :: Page 9 / 25

Originally Posted by Kalean

Also keep in mind, this is going to be a UPDATED Farcry engine, you can't just run farcry and take off 15 frames and get an average...Farcry will not have NEARLY as much textures in terms of terrain/characters/mobs/npc's. You need to understand that MMO's have a VAST amount of textures unlike farcry, which used the same tree textures repeatedly..We are talking about TONS of armor textures, each with different colors on dyes, weapon textures, character textures for each character customization (which is MUCH more intricated now). I could go on and on...The fact is, Aion is NOT Farcry with repetitive textures...This is an MMO...Which are far more graphically demanding.

Yes Aion will have more detailed textures, but its not as overhelming as you imply, also you can tune up/down texture quality as you see fit. And yes - we can take same engine based game to see their relative performance, if games are equaly tuned, which is more important than textures. Lets take for example Serious Sam or UT based engines - they fly with amazing graphics and textures, while some other worse looking engines are actualy slower.

Originally Posted by Kalean

It's not for no reason that MMO's always tend to use older graphical engines compared to going a Crysis like approach going over the edge....MMO's are VERY demanding on resources when they are released, they take textures to a whole new level..and in order to compensate...They must use older engines in order to make sure the game play is smooth. Even those who spent a lot of money on a rig for Lineage 2 know what I'm talking about...it would come to a crawl during castle sieges and in town loading....256mb at those resolutions you stated is NOT enough....Now don't take what I'm saying as a insult or anything. I'm just trying to point this out for you.

Thats not true, or actualy it is for very minor part. Why? Because MMOs have to use older engines (or new but extremely scalable) if they want broad audience, like WoW - playable even on 5 years old Intel integrated graphics Massive audience is what counts and the reason why older/better scalable engines are picked, it has little to do with just better textures.

[Calindor]

My comp pretty much meets all these specs, and I was planning on getting a new one for aion :OOO

I have an AMD X2 4000+, 2 gigs of ram(PC3200 , but 4x512 all the same brand/type), geforce 7600 and a 7200rpm 360gig hd.

I can run L2 at 1280x1024 on almost max settings, and am lucky to hit 30fps. In most open places/towns/character dense places i get 20-25...but its the game style, lowering the settings/resolution doesnt do much. Also keep in mind that a mmorpg requires a lot more ram than a shooter due to character (NPC/PC) loading. 2 gigs is the minumum now, and it should be 2x1024 rather than 4x512.

Theres a local shop with pretty much unbeatable prices (when shipping+handling from stores out of town is counted for). I was considering this system.

* Processor : Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.40GHz 8MB Retail Box (3year)
* Motherboard : Asus P5N-D LGA775 C2D nForce 750i SLI DDR2 PCIe Snd/Lan 1394 (3year)
* Memory:OCZ Reaper 2GB (2X1GB) PC9600 DDR2-800MHz (Lifetime)
* Hard Disk: Western Digital SATA2 500GB 16MB Cache 7200RPM WD5000KS (3year)
* Video Card : PNY GeForce 9800GTX 512MB GDDR3 PCIe Dual DVI (1year)
* DVDRW : Pioneer DVR-215 20x +/- Dual Layer SATA DVD Burner Black (1year)
* Case : Antec P182 Performance One Silent Case No PSU Black (3 Year)
* Power Supply : PC Power and Cooling 750W Silencer 750 Quad PCI-e Copper (5year)

Total: $1150 CDN ($1CDN ~= $1USD, but I doubt the price of Canadian electronics has really caught up to the dollar yet, since 6 months ago a US dollar was like 60 cents Canadian)

They basically sell parts for comps, but they will custom build a certain system spec (like the one above) free of charge...its not a store like Circuit City or something...However I'd like a 10 000rpm hard drive instead.

They build 3 AMD and 3 Intel systems, an entry, medium and high level. This is the medium level intel system, the medium level AMD is identical in price...however I have not liked my AMD dual core 1 bit since i purchased it..and intel seems to be the way to go atm. I loved my old x1 Athlon...it was unbeatable at the time, but I've hated my x2 4000+.

[Harrison]

Nice new rig Calindor, not much use of Quad in Aion, but will be handy if you'll do any video/audio editing or you like heavy multitasking like I do Keep in mind 9800GTX is pretty much 8800GTS 512 OC, you could save some cash by doing it yourself, but ofc if you are buying prebuild system its nice. 9800 GTX has Ultra speed for 50% cost

[Belmont]

Yeah, sounds sweet but with that PC dont start crying when you reach a populated place like towns or just a grind area and your FPS go down as ****

In my opinion system requirements for MMOS are huge, if you want ALWAYS good performance like me

Got quad core 6600 oc'ed till 2,8 Ghz, 2 GB DDR2 800 and ATI X1950 XT 256 MB DDR3 and Im sure Ill change the vcard and even upgrade to 4 GB ram and I dont think I can play that smooth with high settings on populated places (Ill go for 9800 GTX I guess)

[Kalean]

Originally Posted by Harrison

Price depends on your region, but definately - check what you can afford and the best product in that price range, common sense.

It's not just commons sense. What you fail to realize, is that the gpu market isn't as easy and cookie cutter as most. There are gpu's out there that COST MORE but offer less performance in the market right now, Why pay 350 for a 8800 GTX that consumes more power, gives off more heat? When you can get a 8800 GTS g92 or 9800 GTX that will offer the same, if not better performance, with less heat, and power needed. Price doesn't mean anything..you need knowledge of GPU's and the market. Which is precisely why my advice is reliable, you need to understand the technology you speak of.

Originally Posted by Harrison

It seems you didnt understood my post at all, by gpu speed I meant exactly that - gpu speed, not just its clock. Also you seem to overestimate memory size, as much as its important, its not all in all, as I just showed this lowly card blazing 77fps in FarCry at 1680x1050 with AA and AF on. It seems you think from Crysis perspective, just imagine MMO with such demands

Nice review of majority of cards to see their relative performance in FarCry:
techPowerUp :: HIS HD 3870 IceQ3 Turbo 512 MB Review :: Page 9 / 25

Sorry to say bud, you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. GPU speed = clock speed based on the architecture, which each architecture...Whether it be a g92, r600, r670, have specific amount of Shading processors, raster operations, texturing units.."GPU Speed" is not even a term in their actual architecture. As stated before, you need to understand the architecture and limitations before you can give advice...Because honestly, you are 100% incorrect. GPU Clock speed relates to performance based on the architecture, so you are basically agreeing with me while denying it. Clock speed means nothing, it's the architecture that it is based on before you can determine the performance.

Originally Posted by Harrison

Yes Aion will have more detailed textures, but its not as overhelming as you imply, also you can tune up/down texture quality as you see fit. And yes - we can take same engine based game to see their relative performance, if games are equaly tuned, which is more important than textures. Lets take for example Serious Sam or UT based engines - they fly with amazing graphics and textures, while some other worse looking engines are actualy slower.

YES as overwhelming...Do you realize there is another thread in here with someone's specs and experience/frame rates displayed?...please tell me HOW on earth..you would get 60+ frames when a 3870 is capable of this....

FINALLY someone posted their CPU specs and the result!

You see that fourth picture..Tell me WHY on earth is it so low? I'm sorry to say cause you don't understand textures. In Farcry, you have repeated textures being used of terrain/trees. In aion that's a different story. In Farcry you have the same character models of your enemies being used...In Aion..it's LAUGHABLE to even think that. Do you know how many character choices there are now?...11 fps in that scenario explains my thoughts perfectly..and keep in mind this is on a 3870 with 512mb's of ram..So how on earth do you think you'll be getting 60+ with a card limited to 256mbs of memory. With all those character creation choices, which is a LOT of different textures...Plus, keep in mind ontop of that the terrain, mobs, the vastness of the world. That's a lot of vram needed, 256 is NOT ENOUGH for 1650x1050 or 1920x1200 resolutions. Also keep in mind, this is the beginning of CBT...they are still mostly sharing the same armor, now imagine all the different sets and the ability to transfer the stats of one weapon, to one with a different skins...That even adds more strain. I'm sorry man, but you are trying to play off what you think you know, which is 100% invalid.

YOU CAN NOT compare aion to farcry and get an estimate...That just proves my point in how you are comparing an apple to an orange.

Originally Posted by Harrison

Thats not true, or actualy it is for very minor part. Why? Because MMOs have to use older engines (or new but extremely scalable) if they want broad audience, like WoW - playable even on 5 years old Intel integrated graphics Massive audience is what counts and the reason why older/better scalable engines are picked, it has little to do with just better textures.

Precisely, I stated they have to use older engines..So what are you even trying to point out?....They have far more textures then the average game, the amount of characters, models, terrain, mobs, the vast amount of polys...It's a lot of data that needs to be used. In terms of WoW..The fact that you are even comparing a IGP for aion is laughable...IGP's are the barebone lows of gpu computing...Low settings, low resolution. And WoW is NOT a very demanding game bud. Bad comparison...

[Calindor]

Well they just changed their build, 1 month ago it was an Intel Core 2 Duo 6700 (i think...it might have been a 6750) and a XFX GeForce 8800GT Alpha Dog 512MB GDDR3 PCIe Dual DVI. I didnt even realize it was a quad core now lol...but the price is only $150 more than the older build was (seems like a bargain to me). I guess it depends on the amount of stock for each part they get for what they include in their builds.

I do some audio editing/multitracking for my guitar, and I make movies with vegas for L2 (soon to be Aion). Also I think i mentioned earlier, but if not, these comps aren't pre-assembled. The store just buys excess of these specific parts and will build the machine for you actually cheaper than buying all of these parts individually.

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by Kalean

It's not just commons sense. What you fail to realize, is that the gpu market isn't as easy and cookie cutter as most. There are gpu's out there that COST MORE but offer less performance in the market right now, Why pay 350 for a 8800 GTX that consumes more power, gives off more heat? When you can get a 8800 GTS g92 or 9800 GTX that will offer the same, if not better performance, with less heat, and power needed. Price doesn't mean anything..you need knowledge of GPU's and the market. Which is precisely why my advice is reliable, you need to understand the technology you speak of.

Could you at least try to understand simple english? How on earth from "the best product in that price range" you get the price part only? Doesnt the best product say anything to you? And your condescending view doesnt help, since you understand much less about the topic.

Originally Posted by Kalean

Sorry to say bud, you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. GPU speed = clock speed based on the architecture, which each architecture...Whether it be a g92, r600, r670, have specific amount of Shading processors, raster operations, texturing units.."GPU Speed" is not even a term in their actual architecture. As stated before, you need to understand the architecture and limitations before you can give advice...Because honestly, you are 100% incorrect. GPU Clock speed relates to performance based on the architecture, so you are basically agreeing with me while denying it. Clock speed means nothing, it's the architecture that it is based on before you can determine the performance.

Again you cant understand simple english GPU speed in laymen terms means its performance in games, if you dont understand that, ask, but you without a clue starting to show how much (actualy, little) you know about this topic. You out of place "introduced" GPU clock speeds without understanding the posts, and then start to defeat your own strawman

Originally Posted by Kalean

YES as overwhelming...Do you realize there is another thread in here with someone's specs and experience/frame rates displayed?...please tell me HOW on earth..you would get 60+ frames when a 3870 is capable of this....

We dont know most of his settings, plus you think Aion wont be tuned better? It seems you imply Aion is as tuned now as it will be during/after the launch, which just shows you have little experience with the topic.

Originally Posted by Kalean

Precisely, I stated they have to use older engines..So what are you even trying to point out?....They have far more textures then the average game, the amount of characters, models, terrain, mobs, the vast amount of polys...It's a lot of data that needs to be used. In terms of WoW..The fact that you are even comparing a IGP for aion is laughable...IGP's are the barebone lows of gpu computing...Low settings, low resolution. And WoW is NOT a very demanding game bud. Bad comparison...

again, you mixing different topics as you dont understand them - MMOs choose the engine which are suitable for broader audience, just better textures doesnt mean anything - you can tune them down/up in options, or even download as extra pack as in LOTRO. Thats why you dont have to use old engine, scalable new works just fine. You overstimate textures as well, nor its always in video cards memory. After Aion launch you'll see plenty of players running with 256MB cards (actualy most will have less than 512MB). We are yet to see how tuned the game will be at the launch, its obvious players with slower rigs wont play on highest settings.

[Diablo]

I'm looking at super cheap.

3.2 P4 and an Nvidia 5600LE on a D850GB Intel generic mobo with a blazing gig of ddr2-400.

And to top it all off an 80 GB IDE Seagate.

Total Price about 80 bucks.

Looking for 10-15 FPS on low settings.

Cause its great to play games with textures and settings turned all the way down.

[Kalean]

The point of my ENTIRE argument, is not about gpu performance buddy. You're the one that threw in the term "GPU Speed"...What I'm trying to get across which you are failing to realize, is that a 256mb card is not enough for running 1650x1050, or 1920x1200 in a mmo with a enjoyable experience...You would bottle neck BIG TIME. The fact that you don't even understand that shows you have no idea what you are talking about. More Vram offers the ability to run more textures and a higher resolution...Cutting the amount of memory to a limited 256mb's for those resolutions is suicide if you expect to run atleast decent settings...You will see a MASSIVE drop in performance once you bump up to 1650x1050, and 1920x1200 is even larger.

Of course you can always turn down your texture quality, but keep in mind the higher you go in resolution, the more vram is required in order to get an enjoyable experience, even on low texture settings, which would make the game lose some of it's prettiness, you will be bottlenecking. THAT is the point I'm trying to get across, the other information is related to what you have been throwing around in terms of GPU speed, and that more expensive up the chain = better performance. So please don't try to bring in a condescending tone in order to get past your prior statements which I've been speaking against. Everything I said relates to what you've been spouting, but the MAIN factor of this discussion, 1650x1050/1920x1200 needs more vram then 256mbs for an MMO...which are extremely heavy on the amount of textures displayed...They wouldn't pick older engines for no reason..This is one of them.

[DSFARGEG]

Hi everyone! [yay, first post.]

This thread is truly relevant to my interests, as i am planning to build a new comp as well, like so many people here.

Could anyone here tell me if i'll be able to play at max settings on 1680x1050 with the following rig ?

Case: Antec P-180
Mob: Asus Maximus Formula
Proc: e8500 [3,16]
GPU: [Asus EN]9800gtx
RAM: 2x2048mb ddr2 800mhz [pc6400] OR 2x[4x?]1024mb ddr2 1066mhz [pc8500] ?
PSU: 600w
Cooling: Zalman CNPS9500Led
HDD: Main-> 150gb raptor SATA / Aux: whatever

Many thanks in advance for answering

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by Kalean

The point of my ENTIRE argument, is not about gpu performance buddy. You're the one that threw in the term "GPU Speed"...What I'm trying to get across which you are failing to realize, is that a 256mb card is not enough for running 1650x1050, or 1920x1200 in a mmo with a enjoyable experience...You would bottle neck BIG TIME. The fact that you don't even understand that shows you have no idea what you are talking about. More Vram offers the ability to run more textures and a higher resolution...Cutting the amount of memory to a limited 256mb's for those resolutions is suicide if you expect to run atleast decent settings...You will see a MASSIVE drop in performance once you bump up to 1650x1050, and 1920x1200 is even larger.

All right, lets leave out your other wanderings and concentrate on video memory importance in MMOs, not just regular games where I already proved my point before.

Couldnt find Lineage2 and 3850 tests, but came accross Guild Wars with 1680x1050, Maximum Settings, Avg: 110 fps. In newer MMO Hellgate with better graphics, in DX9 1680x1050 without AA/AF - avg 99fps, in DX10 - 40-50fps.

As I said before, I fully agree video memory size is important, but gpu speed is much more essential, i.e. 3850 256 will be much faster in MMO than slower gpu cards (2600, 8600, etc) with more memory.

To sum it up, if you can afford faster card with more memory - go for it. If in your region 9600GT/3870 costs more than you can afford while 3850 256MB is in your price range, get it instead of crappy performance cards with 512MB. There is no point for anyone to be the elitist "oh my, you have only 256MB card and dont experience what I do with my super fast card with n memory, go and kill yourself" Everyone should get the best product available to them. Simple truth, isnt?

Welcome to the source DSFARGEG!

Your PC should fly in the Aion I have similar rig.

[Kalean]

GPU speed is not more essential. They both come hand in hand..If you don't have enough vram to handle all the textures, your gpu would bottle neck by not having enough memory, and vice versa as well. If you have tons of Vram and your gpu isn't up to snuff...the same will happen, performance won't increase due to the more memory, but it won't degrade performance either. They both go hand in hand...

regarding searching for game benchmarks..You just can't do that...Guild wars isn't graphically demanding at all considering the title. Also keep in mind guild wars is zone based...Small zones loaded...So your frame rate would increase because of that. I don't disagree with you when you say gpu performance is essential..It is..But if you don't have enough vram, you will lag up. Aion will also have loaded zones, which help in system performance, if you've played L2...you'd find out that full world rendered MMO's can bring your computer down to it's knees. But it's not fair to compare any game to aion, yes it uses a farcry en