Macbook Pro

poorbuggers · 05-13-2008, 12:16 PM

I have a few questions for a mac laptop for school/programming (java and c++)/gaming(aion, conan, crysis, etc)...

Price difference - Specs --> question
$500 - NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT with 256MB or 512MB --> what's the big difference, is the extra 256MB really worth it?
$100 - Serial ATA Hard Drive 5400rpm vs 7200rpm --> both 200gb, what's the big difference? will I ever need to go about 5400?
$200 - 2GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB or 4GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x2GB --> will I ever need over 2gb?
2.4ghz or 2.5ghz - "The faster 2.5GHz processor has double the L2 cache (6MB) than the 2.4GHz processor, which means the real-world performance bump is much more than the .1GHz difference advertised on Apple’s web site and in-store." (Guide to the New MacBooks and MacBook Pros | notebooks.com)

Any help would be great. Also, what video card comes custom on the normal Macbook? I couldn't find it. And I'm scared of the Macbook's 13" screen... it seems too small.

Any help would be great.

Fleiva · 05-13-2008, 12:35 PM

whew, that's a huge ripoff.

calliopi · 05-13-2008, 01:25 PM

I use a 13" macbook. I use it for work & always taking classes so it gets a lot of use. I have played WoW on it (in kara with no lag & on wireless) & I have also played FFXI on it in windows boot with no issues. (I have since quit FFXI again & got rid of the bootcamp partition in favor of vmware, which is much better IMO)

I have the black macbook specs in a white shell. I would honestly say if its just for school, don't be afraid of the 13" screen. I don't notice much of a difference than when I am using my desktop with the cinema display. I you want the upgrades the only thing I would say don't do is the RAM. You can upgrade the RAM on your own without voiding your warranty for half the price that Apple sells RAM for. I got 2gb with the computer & just upgraded to 4gb for $60.00.

my opinion.

Kalean · 05-13-2008, 06:39 PM

Macs are extremely overpriced man...and I mean extremely...

But regarding to your questions..A jump to the 7,200 rpm drive will decrease loading times in applications, and windows start up. Also, with the way MMO's are coded, they benefit from faster access times. So it is indeed a plus and I recommend going this route.

Ram is not that big of an issue, 2gb is good, 4gb is better considering how cheap it is now-a-days...Some games are breaking the 2gb barrier, but it's up to you...From what it seems, they offer 2x1 or 2x2..So they might only have 2 ram slots, so decide if you want to upgrade now...Since you won't be able to upgrade later, I don't have much experience with the macbook though, so you might want to ask someone, or apple how many slots they have.

In regarding to the graphics card...Did you mean 500 bucks to upgrade from a 8600m with 256 mb to 512?...if so I HATE APPLE. Way too overpriced, plus the 8600 series is VERY old, and it was scrutinized for bad gaming performance when it was released. IF you want a laptop to last now-a-days gaming wise, you really have to go the whole nine yards and get a 8800M...the performance difference is massive.

plasma06 · 05-13-2008, 07:17 PM

i thought normal laptop prices wore bad this is insane

poorbuggers · 05-13-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalean

In regarding to the graphics card...Did you mean 500 bucks to upgrade from a 8600m with 256 mb to 512?...if so I HATE APPLE. Way too overpriced, plus the 8600 series is VERY old, and it was scrutinized for bad gaming performance when it was released. IF you want a laptop to last now-a-days gaming wise, you really have to go the whole nine yards and get a 8800M...the performance difference is massive.

It's $500 to upgrade the graphics card, you get from 2.4 to 2.5ghz (6mb cache, so its really more than .1ghz difference), and jump from 200gb 5400rpm to 250gb 5400rpm. Also, if I do that, it's only $45 to get the upgrade from 250gb 5400rpm to 200gb 7200rpm.

Also, the video card for the Macbook (not pro) is "Intel GMA X3100 graphics processor with 144MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory".

Kalean · 05-13-2008, 07:24 PM

Cpu speed from 2.4 to 2.5 isn't that big of a jump, the 7,200 rpm hard drive boost is indeed beneficial. The graphics card isn't going to be good for gaming, you'll be gaming on the lower settings....low/medium. Regarding the video memory, it depends on the resolution, and since this is a 13 inch screen, I doubt they'll have a large resolution....But honestly..you'd be better off getting a pc laptop for the price you are considering to pay.

poorbuggers · 05-13-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalean

Cpu speed from 2.4 to 2.5 isn't that big of a jump, the 7,200 rpm hard drive boost is indeed beneficial. The graphics card isn't going to be good for gaming, you'll be gaming on the lower settings....low/medium. Regarding the video memory, it depends on the resolution, and since this is a 13 inch screen, I doubt they'll have a large resolution....But honestly..you'd be better off getting a pc laptop for the price you are considering to pay.

I understand that, but the 2.4 to 2.5 also jumps from 3MB shared L2 cache to 6MB shared L2 cache, so the difference will be much greater than the .1ghz as I understand it...

Kalean · 05-13-2008, 08:06 PM

Don't think that more cache always means better performance..

Benchmark Results - Tom's Hardware : Does Cache Size Really Boost Performance?

It's not for no reason people pick up e2160/e2180's and overclock them to 3.0-3.2 ghz for budget gaming. It does affect performance, but not as much as you'd think for gaming. Up to you on what you want to do...But do keep in mind that 8600M's are VERY OLD mobile chips, the 8800M is the current generation, with upcoming 9x00m's in development...The difference in performance between a 8800M and a 8600M are MASSIVE...and I mean massive. the 8600M is incapable of playing some games, meanwhile the 8800M will allow you to play pretty much any game, even crysis if you want to do some really nice settings. The 8600M is not a good gaming gpu, you'll be running crysis on low with a couple med options...With a 8800M, you'll be able to run on medium/high/very high...(VERY FEW very high, crysis kills rigs)

Obviously you are planning to run Bootcamp in order to play Aion, AoC..etc...But if you can go pc based if all the software you use is also on the PC, I'd suggest doing so, you get a lot more for your money...

Edit--

Just wanted to throw in a quick benchmarks.

AnandTech: NVIDIA GeForce 8800M: Fast DX10 Mobile GPUs Finally Arrive

Keep in mind the 8700GT runs the same architecture gpu under the 8600M...Just clocked much higher, 150 mhz on the core, 300 on the shader clock, and 200 mhz on the memory...It gets obliterated as you can see....Not even SLI'ed 8700's can come close...

I'll say right now, if you want to play AoC or Crysis, not going to happen on a 8600 without using the lowest settings.

poorbuggers · 05-13-2008, 08:55 PM

So basically, if I want to play any half-decent games, a Macbook Pro would suck...

Kalean · 05-13-2008, 09:00 PM

Precisely, you'd HAVE to go a pc laptop, and spend a good amount of money to game, since 8800M's are only used in the higher up models....

Laptops aren't that great for gaming. They CAN be, but you have to pay quite a bit to get up there. BTW, don't let the 8800M name fool you, the 8800M runs a g92, just like the 8800GT, 8800 GTS 512, and 9800GTX. The difference in performance compared to the scrutinized 8600 series is massive.

poorbuggers · 05-13-2008, 09:07 PM

It would be for occasional gaming, since I'm going to college and that is not what I plan on doing. If it is just occasional gaming, would the MBP work (with the 8600)? Or should I still end up getting a PC?

Skold · 05-13-2008, 09:12 PM

Macbooks weren't meant for gaming. The 8600 isn't a good graphics card and for the same price you are paying for that you could buy an alienware with a 8800 GTX.

Kalean · 05-13-2008, 09:26 PM

How much is your budget poorbuggers?...Just curious..

As stated, Macbooks pros aren't meant for gaming, they can be gamed on using Bootcamp with a windows partition, but they are still not meant for that purpose. Regarding if you can game casually, yes, but...Keep in mind, AoC, Aion, and Crysis?..Sorry bud, low settings across the board (Aion most like low with a couple medium options).....

Btw, I'd rather take a Sager notebook then alienware =P...But they are indeed pricey.

poorbuggers · 05-14-2008, 07:50 AM

My parents will pitch in up to 1500, the rest is out of my pocket (but I've had a job for 2 years and haven't invested in anything big).

05-13-2008, 12:16 PM	#1 (permalink)
poorbuggers Daeva Join Date: Sep 2007 Character: Ruani Class: Chanter Legion: The Spirits Within Race: Undecided	Macbook Pro I have a few questions for a mac laptop for school/programming (java and c++)/gaming(aion, conan, crysis, etc)... Price difference - Specs --> question $500 - NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT with 256MB or 512MB --> what's the big difference, is the extra 256MB really worth it? $100 - Serial ATA Hard Drive 5400rpm vs 7200rpm --> both 200gb, what's the big difference? will I ever need to go about 5400? $200 - 2GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB or 4GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x2GB --> will I ever need over 2gb? 2.4ghz or 2.5ghz - "The faster 2.5GHz processor has double the L2 cache (6MB) than the 2.4GHz processor, which means the real-world performance bump is much more than the .1GHz difference advertised on Apple’s web site and in-store." (Guide to the New MacBooks and MacBook Pros \| notebooks.com) Any help would be great. Also, what video card comes custom on the normal Macbook? I couldn't find it. And I'm scared of the Macbook's 13" screen... it seems too small. Any help would be great. __________________ Trample the weak, hurdle the dead.

05-13-2008, 12:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
Fleiva Daeva Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Spain Blog Entries: 3 Class: Chanter Legion: Reign Race: Undecided	whew, that's a huge ripoff. __________________

05-13-2008, 06:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
Kalean Daeva Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Reseda, CA Legion: Undecided Race: Elyos	Macs are extremely overpriced man...and I mean extremely... But regarding to your questions..A jump to the 7,200 rpm drive will decrease loading times in applications, and windows start up. Also, with the way MMO's are coded, they benefit from faster access times. So it is indeed a plus and I recommend going this route. Ram is not that big of an issue, 2gb is good, 4gb is better considering how cheap it is now-a-days...Some games are breaking the 2gb barrier, but it's up to you...From what it seems, they offer 2x1 or 2x2..So they might only have 2 ram slots, so decide if you want to upgrade now...Since you won't be able to upgrade later, I don't have much experience with the macbook though, so you might want to ask someone, or apple how many slots they have. In regarding to the graphics card...Did you mean 500 bucks to upgrade from a 8600m with 256 mb to 512?...if so I HATE APPLE. Way too overpriced, plus the 8600 series is VERY old, and it was scrutinized for bad gaming performance when it was released. IF you want a laptop to last now-a-days gaming wise, you really have to go the whole nine yards and get a 8800M...the performance difference is massive. __________________

05-13-2008, 07:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
plasma06 Daeva Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Blog Entries: 1 Class: Ranger Legion: [GM] Blood Lust Race: Asmodians	i thought normal laptop prices wore bad this is insane __________________ CPU:AMD X2 6000+ GPU:9600GT RAM:4GIG 800 Can't wait for WoW:LK 13th Nov is all most here

05-13-2008, 07:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
Kalean Daeva Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Reseda, CA Legion: Undecided Race: Elyos	Cpu speed from 2.4 to 2.5 isn't that big of a jump, the 7,200 rpm hard drive boost is indeed beneficial. The graphics card isn't going to be good for gaming, you'll be gaming on the lower settings....low/medium. Regarding the video memory, it depends on the resolution, and since this is a 13 inch screen, I doubt they'll have a large resolution....But honestly..you'd be better off getting a pc laptop for the price you are considering to pay. __________________ Last edited by Kalean; 05-13-2008 at 07:59 PM..

05-13-2008, 01:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
calliopi Human Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ontario Class: Cleric Race: Elyos	I use a 13" macbook. I use it for work & always taking classes so it gets a lot of use. I have played WoW on it (in kara with no lag & on wireless) & I have also played FFXI on it in windows boot with no issues. (I have since quit FFXI again & got rid of the bootcamp partition in favor of vmware, which is much better IMO) I have the black macbook specs in a white shell. I would honestly say if its just for school, don't be afraid of the 13" screen. I don't notice much of a difference than when I am using my desktop with the cinema display. I you want the upgrades the only thing I would say don't do is the RAM. You can upgrade the RAM on your own without voiding your warranty for half the price that Apple sells RAM for. I got 2gb with the computer & just upgraded to 4gb for $60.00. my opinion.

05-13-2008, 08:06 PM	#9 (permalink)
Kalean Daeva Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Reseda, CA Legion: Undecided Race: Elyos	Don't think that more cache always means better performance.. Benchmark Results - Tom's Hardware : Does Cache Size Really Boost Performance? It's not for no reason people pick up e2160/e2180's and overclock them to 3.0-3.2 ghz for budget gaming. It does affect performance, but not as much as you'd think for gaming. Up to you on what you want to do...But do keep in mind that 8600M's are VERY OLD mobile chips, the 8800M is the current generation, with upcoming 9x00m's in development...The difference in performance between a 8800M and a 8600M are MASSIVE...and I mean massive. the 8600M is incapable of playing some games, meanwhile the 8800M will allow you to play pretty much any game, even crysis if you want to do some really nice settings. The 8600M is not a good gaming gpu, you'll be running crysis on low with a couple med options...With a 8800M, you'll be able to run on medium/high/very high...(VERY FEW very high, crysis kills rigs) Obviously you are planning to run Bootcamp in order to play Aion, AoC..etc...But if you can go pc based if all the software you use is also on the PC, I'd suggest doing so, you get a lot more for your money... Edit-- Just wanted to throw in a quick benchmarks. AnandTech: NVIDIA GeForce 8800M: Fast DX10 Mobile GPUs Finally Arrive Keep in mind the 8700GT runs the same architecture gpu under the 8600M...Just clocked much higher, 150 mhz on the core, 300 on the shader clock, and 200 mhz on the memory...It gets obliterated as you can see....Not even SLI'ed 8700's can come close... I'll say right now, if you want to play AoC or Crysis, not going to happen on a 8600 without using the lowest settings. __________________ Last edited by Kalean; 05-13-2008 at 08:32 PM..

05-13-2008, 08:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
poorbuggers Daeva Join Date: Sep 2007 Character: Ruani Class: Chanter Legion: The Spirits Within Race: Undecided	So basically, if I want to play any half-decent games, a Macbook Pro would suck... __________________ Trample the weak, hurdle the dead.

05-13-2008, 09:00 PM	#11 (permalink)
Kalean Daeva Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Reseda, CA Legion: Undecided Race: Elyos	Precisely, you'd HAVE to go a pc laptop, and spend a good amount of money to game, since 8800M's are only used in the higher up models.... Laptops aren't that great for gaming. They CAN be, but you have to pay quite a bit to get up there. BTW, don't let the 8800M name fool you, the 8800M runs a g92, just like the 8800GT, 8800 GTS 512, and 9800GTX. The difference in performance compared to the scrutinized 8600 series is massive. __________________

05-13-2008, 09:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
poorbuggers Daeva Join Date: Sep 2007 Character: Ruani Class: Chanter Legion: The Spirits Within Race: Undecided	It would be for occasional gaming, since I'm going to college and that is not what I plan on doing. If it is just occasional gaming, would the MBP work (with the 8600)? Or should I still end up getting a PC? __________________ Trample the weak, hurdle the dead.

05-13-2008, 09:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
Skold Daeva Join Date: May 2008 Location: Ohio Character: Skold Class: Templar Legion: MUGEN Race: Elyos	Macbooks weren't meant for gaming. The 8600 isn't a good graphics card and for the same price you are paying for that you could buy an alienware with a 8800 GTX.

05-13-2008, 09:26 PM	#14 (permalink)
Kalean Daeva Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Reseda, CA Legion: Undecided Race: Elyos	How much is your budget poorbuggers?...Just curious.. As stated, Macbooks pros aren't meant for gaming, they can be gamed on using Bootcamp with a windows partition, but they are still not meant for that purpose. Regarding if you can game casually, yes, but...Keep in mind, AoC, Aion, and Crysis?..Sorry bud, low settings across the board (Aion most like low with a couple medium options)..... Btw, I'd rather take a Sager notebook then alienware =P...But they are indeed pricey. __________________

05-14-2008, 07:50 AM	#15 (permalink)
poorbuggers Daeva Join Date: Sep 2007 Character: Ruani Class: Chanter Legion: The Spirits Within Race: Undecided	My parents will pitch in up to 1500, the rest is out of my pocket (but I've had a job for 2 years and haven't invested in anything big). __________________ Trample the weak, hurdle the dead.

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