New PC Budget, $2200 setup.

[Skold]

Originally Posted by LethalGT

Ok, Listen up.

Processor: Intel Q9450.
Graphics: 9800GTX x2.
RAM: 4gb's of DDR3.
Mobo: Evga 790i.
Case: Cooler master stacker 832.
Monitor: Samsung 223BW.

Don't get 8gb's, such a waste of money it doesn't do ANYTHING for you.

WINDOWS VISTA 64-BIT!

Winning gaming setup... I doubt thats under 2200 with a monitor though.

[LethalGT]

Originally Posted by Skold

Winning gaming setup... I doubt thats under 2200 with a monitor though.

Nope, I'll calculate it right now.

Around $1800. $2000 if you want Silverstone 1000W PSU, which is recommended, than a heatsink which is VERY cheap.

[Skold]

Yeah I wouldn't go below a 950-1000 w psu... Kind of dangerous with the 2x 9800s

[Casino]

Originally Posted by Skold

New parts aren't going to be any more affordable, and will be out of his budget. If you want to build a PC for good price/performance ratio now is the time to do it. I build PCs for a partial living and am very familiar with the market. Building a top end PC now can run almost to $7,000 - $9,000 dollars. Its going to take a while for prices to come down on new technology and august isn't that far away. The Nehalem is 2x faster than current processors, but currently, the top processor is $1,500. Thats pretty steep and with the Nehalem coming out theres no reason for them to make it cheap, considering it smashes all other processors. Sure it will make others drop but the power will go unused for years. The P45 chipset is nice, as well as the GT200, but we are talking parts that are going to be released by the end of this year and at high prices. (Atleast 500+.)

this isn't true at all. new technology always comes in tiers, the op isn't saying he wants the best of the best cutting edge. when a new cpu is released there is always several speed tiers or multicore options that range from very affordable to.. well.. insane. the hard part is finding the best bang for the buck inbetween those 2 markers. the same thing applies to virtually every major part in a computer.

you talk as if the op is wanting to wait til the current top of the line comes down in price, but as you should know that won't ever happen. prices will surely decline, but not enough to bring them into his price range until they are obsolete and he wouldn't want them anyways.

[Kalean]

See that's what I'mt alking about. Nvidia chipsets = buggy as hell and not worth the money. DDR3?...Are you joking me?...Performance that doesn't match up for what you pay. The FSB architecture can't fully take advantage of DDR3, you only see performance gains that are actually worth while int he ddr3-1600-2000 range, and they are too expensive.

Dual 9800 GTX's?..In this time and age?..Are you joking me? Why when GT200 is on the verge of release, a new architecture that will dethrone the 9800GX2, which is a dual gpu solution by the way, and a single gpu solution will offer similar/better performance from GT200.

IT'S NOT the best time to buy...BTW Skold, you can get away with MUCH less then a 950-1000 watt psu. I find it intriguing how often people recommend these enormous PSU's, especially when they pick the cheapest ones of the bunch. The PSU is the most critical factor in pc's....I wouldn't recommend a 1000 watt psu unless the person plans for tri/quad gpu setups. Heck, if you even picked up a q6600 with some oc'ing, as well as a 9800 GTX, a Antec Earthwatts 430 watt psu would be more then sufficient, watts doesn't matter, it's the combination of watts + amperages that matters. Where those amps are located, 3.3, 5, or 12 rails...That define a good PSU. Quality of the unit is also a MAJOR concern. a 950-1000 watt is overkill for a dual 9800 GX2 setup, A PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 series with its massive 60 amps on a single 12 rail is more then enough.

Right now is not the best time to buy if you want a rig to last, we have two new gpu architectures coming out, p45 chipset which atm we have no idea on pricing, but will offer pci-e 2.0 at a more budget friendly price then going x38/x48, as well as Nehalem around the corner. Now, the Nehalem issue isn't the best thing to wait for, but these new gpus are....

Just like you Skold, I build/fix rigs....Heck, This is my hobby, whether it be building, trouble shooting, fixing, isolating hardware failures, you name it.....I'm a heavy computer enthusiast, I'm extremely deep into the market, as well as upcoming technology. It's damn hard making a living off of it, but it puts a pretty penny in my pocket to get me by.....But saying that right now is the best time to build a rig for a high end machine, would be the worst thing to say. The only way it would be justifiable, is if you pick up a EVGA card for stepping up to the new gpu's, that would be the main factor.

Sorry bud, butt there is a difference from COMPLETELY knowing and understanding the market, and buying/building rigs with the consumers computer plans in mind, compared to just picking out expensive components.

[Casino]

could easily cut half your expenditure on video cards just waiting for the gt200, plus that means you can save money on a psu also, which means you end up with either extra money left over or you can binge on a sweet sweet monitor.

edit: as far as psu's go my c2d, 8800gts, 2 hard drives, and 2gb ram with a few case fans are all running off an old but well made OCZ Powerstream 420w psu. its not the wattage, its the quality that you should be looking for. now i'm not saying you can run multi cards with 420w but you don't have to jump to the quadruple digits just to power your system.

[Kalean]

Indeed casino, why take two cards over one superior card? Which is just 30-50 days away? Especially considering it will have an improved architecture, as well as a superior UVD. Right now is not the best time to buy a high end graphics card.....It's best to wait and see what GT200 and R700 offer, they'll also make current cards drop a bit in price...ESPECIALLY due to r700, which is suppose to be priced in a very affordable segment of the market.

[Clinkz]

Originally Posted by Skold

New parts aren't going to be any more affordable, and will be out of his budget. If you want to build a PC for good price/performance ratio now is the time to do it. I build PCs for a partial living and am very familiar with the market. Building a top end PC now can run almost to $7,000 - $9,000 dollars. Its going to take a while for prices to come down on new technology and august isn't that far away. The Nehalem is 2x faster than current processors, but currently, the top processor is $1,500. Thats pretty steep and with the Nehalem coming out theres no reason for them to make it cheap, considering it smashes all other processors. Sure it will make others drop but the power will go unused for years. The P45 chipset is nice, as well as the GT200, but we are talking parts that are going to be released by the end of this year and at high prices. (Atleast 500+.)

Uh, 7000-9000$? Maybe if you just decide to buy server hardware and run it as a computer...

[Kalean]

He was just stating that in regards to affordability and how prices won't drop. Which is indeed true for the cpu market, but no one wants a 1000-1500 dollar cpu, it's overkill and ridiculous. Nehalem will also not be 2x faster, it will be DAMN faster in certain applications utilizing it's QPI and IMC, thanks to the higher memory bandwidth, but gaming won't see THAT massive of a jump, a good jump, but nothing compared to the server/workstation orientated segments.

[Clinkz]

Also Kal, it's really up to you. A List would be nice, but not necessary. If you have the time. Go for it. If not, don't sweat it man. You've done more than enough for me (and I am sure many other Source members). You're a great guy and you sure as hell know your stuff. = )

[Casino]

i must have skimmed over the 2x faster part. that right there is pretty humorous. computer companies will never intentionally make hardware that scales that much so quickly. its all about the slow and steady keep our company afloat as we slowly string along the consumers, to a certain degree at least until you factor in competition, but even there both companies are in the same boat so they wouldn't push too far too fast.

[Kalean]

Here you go Clinkz....But before you read it, I'd just like to state there are three place holders in there just to hold the price until the new cards come out, so the 9800GX2 will vanish, I just placed it for the price of 600 just incase for the GT200, GT200 price is expected to be 499.99, but just though it'd be best to throw it in so we don't go over budget ever...Read after the list for information regarding the parts selected, that can change based on what you want to do...

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion...tTitle=Clinkz2

Depending on how long you want this rig to last, I threw in a temporary E8400...If you want to overclock, I HEAVILY suggest picking up a q6600 for some overclocking. You can always increase the core speed, but you can never add more cores, and the future is indeed multi-threaded. So this part is up to you on either E8400 or Q6600. Only pick up the q6600 if you are 100% overclocking though, as you'd see a bigger performance advantage with the faster clock speed in the current state of computer applications....Keep in mind though that a quad will liver longer and better down the road as more applications become multithreaded. Also, if you plan to upgrade relatively soon to Nehalem during 2009, then just pick up the e8400, unless you have specific uses that can take advantage of a quad and plan to OC to 3ghz +.

The motherboard is a place holder, No card on the market atm breaks the pci-e 1.1 barrier...With VERY FEW games even taking advantage of PCI-E 2.0, one of the only ones is Flight Simulator which not many really play here I bet =P. If you want this rig to last 3-5 years with only a gpu upgrade down the line, then definitely grab the x38 board for the PCI-E 2.0 interface. As stated nothing breaks the barrier now, but 2-3 years down the road that will change. We also have no idea what GT200 will bring to the table....so best to wait and see how it performs in PCI-E 1.1 boards just incase. If it still isn't close to the barrier, and you plan to upgrade to Nehalem in 2009, you can then drop the board to a cheaper P35 based solution, which will save you around 100-150 depending on the board. One more thing, if you plan to upgrade to Nehalem during Q1/Q2 2009, I'd suggest picking up a p35 board regardless so you don't waste too much money, then just swap out your board/ram/cpu for a Nehalem mainstream solution....There are rumors going around that intel might lock the ability to overclock on the lower end solutions, but it's a rumor atm....If you do decide to upgrade, DDR3 might seem a like a good pick up right now so you don't have to buy memory again, but with the prices of DDR-2 so low, and good ddr3 boards a bit higher, I wouldn't suggest it. Anyways, you'd have a spare rig possibility if you go DDR2 as well. Keep in mind though that Nehalem won't be 100% needed, current technology will still live quite a long time down the road...Nehalem is a modified core architecture with a IMC and intel's QPI....Plus, current processors will live a lot longer then previous generations cpu's due to the fact that they have multiple cores.

The ram modules are some tasty cas4 ddr2-800 modules from Mushkin, they also sport Micron D9 ic's, and as I've always preached...Micron IC's are very high quality modules ^_^. good overclockers that can easily sustain and hold higher clocks/voltages then other IC manufacturers in terms of lifetime. Great chips, also comes with a free 3DMark Vantage 08 from newegg ^_^.

9800GX2 is a place holder as mentioned, Although the price of the GT200 will be around 500, I thought best to put in sometihng more expensive so we don't go over budget just in case, and it'll make you a happy camper once you see the price drop ^.^. Remember, don't buy now, wait till Gt200/R700 in mid-late June/Early July. Whatever happens, we will be getting a EVGA/BFG/XFX card, why buy from other manufacturers when these lovely companies offer lifetime warranties?...Also, since we're going high end, you quality for my infinite high end tactic if you decide to ^_^...First off, before I get into that...EVGA/BFG both offer 90/100 day step up programs, simple really, you can trade in your card within that time frame for something better, you just pay the difference ^_^.

the infinite high end tactic is only accessible with XFX cards (can be done with other brands, but XFX = higher success rate). Basically, you buy a new high end on day 1 from XFX, use it, and hopefully if the market has been competitive with not so many darn refreshes (such as lately), on the verge of a upcoming new highend architecture gpu, you take the XFX card and pop it up on ebay or a similar site. Due to the Double lifetime warranty from XFX, the lifetime warranty is transferable to the new owner, this will allow you to sell the used card QUICKLY...You do so priced at 50-100 below the current MSRP (you do this a month or so before a new high end comes out). Take that money you got, slap on an additional 100-250 (price varies depending on state of graphics market), and buy the new high end ^_^...and repeat over and over. You lose out on keeping your older card, but get a new high end for a MUCH cheaper cost and can always stay up to date for the lowest amount of funds possible. This ONLY works with high end solutions if they retain their market value (8800 GTX cards haven't as you see, due to the refreshes, which are due to the lack of competition from ATI =(...)

For the hard drive, it depends how much space you need....I temporarily put in a 150gb Raptor and a 7200.11 PMR 500gb drive from seagate (5 year warranty = yum). If you don't need more then 300 gb's, I'd suggest dropping both of these and picking up the new WD Velociraptor which comes out in June. priced at 300 though, but has a 1ms faster random access time compared to the current raptor drives, while improving on dollar per gigabyte ratio. Also offers the read/write rate of current 7,200 rpm PMR drives....Good purchase...The faster access times are really helpful in MMO's as I've stated in many other threads, on the fly hard drive requests in mmo's are a plague for 7,200 rpm drives and their slower spindle/access times. It'll decrease load times and lessen those system lock ups as the hard drive is requested for information (models/textures)...We've all felt this while running down a path and the system freezes for 1-3 seconds, followed by a massive load of terrain/mobs/character/etc....Also help town loading times for character models and log ins with random characters popping up. If you want more space, then just pick up the two drives I've already selected, raptor as the main OS drive, and the 500 gigabyte seagate for storage.

For the PSU, I threw in a PC Power silencer series, newegg unfortunately doesn't have the 610 watt model, while the 750 is indeed overkill for this rig...lol. But hopefully they'll get the black model in stock, as well as offer the 610 watt models..If they don't, you can pick up the 610 watt model in black from Buy.com at a great price with free shipping.

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610W EPS 12V SLI Ready Power Supply - S61EPS - Buy.com

If you want a modular PSU, just state so, and I'll throw in some other suggestions...If you don't know what modular is, it's basically a PSU that allows you to connect whatever wires you want, no excess wires hanging loosely in the case, you just attack the connectors you want to the psu.

Now, I didn't add cpu cooling to the list, but it all depends on if you plan to oc or not, of if you're the type of person who likes to keep their components cool regardless if you don't oc...lol...here are my suggestions.

Newegg.com - ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - CPU Fans & Heatsinks

Considered one of the best budget coolers, if you don't place to OC, or OC mildy, this would be a great choice...If you want to even improve on the cooling more, add this thermal compound..

Newegg.com - ARCTIC COOLING MX-2 Thermal Compound - Thermal Compound / Grease

If you want a high end air cooling solution, pick this sucker up...

Thermalright Ultra120 eXtreme Premium Heatpipe Cooler Products Model: ULTRA120-EXTREME [ULTRA120-EXTREME] : Performance-PCs.com, ... sleeve it and they will come (they never have it in stock at newegg...

and add this fan for the bracket,

SCYTHE S-FLEX™ 120mm 1600 rpm Quiet Fan - Sleeved Products Model: SFF21F [SFF21F] : Performance-PCs.com, ... sleeve it and they will come

as well as the mx-2 compound, and you're set for a massive air overclock ^_^.

Regarding Case, a tasty Antec 900...Out of all the cases I've bought, I have to admit I love antec considering they give you quality fans with their cases. Fantastic value, two front 120mm intake, one rear 120mm exhaust, and a top 200mm exhaust (with a optional slot on the side panel for a 120mm fan, not the best positioning though). All fans are 3 speed adjustable, so you can get some pretty good airflow out of them, or low noise depending on your tastes, fantastic build quality as well. If you don't like the looks or want something else, just say so and I'll state some alternatives, although they are more pricey, and more then likely you will have to buy fans since they don't come filled up.

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That pretty much does it, can't think of anything else off the top of my head....If you have any comments/questions/concerns, drop a line. ^_^

[Skold]

The P45 chipset comes out in a month or so, so its probably a good idea to wait for it for upgrading reasons. (PCI-E 2.0 etc. It will also hopefully support the Nehalem.) It is true that the GT200 will be released in probably 3 different models, but they aren't going to be any less than 300-400$ at the lowest model.(Set to release in July.) As for the Nehalem, yes it will have almost 2x performance on multi-threaded applications, and not so much in other areas. Although its not really important to buy a Nehalem, considering it won't be out until the end of 2008, possibly 2009. What is more important is buying a chipset that can upgrade to it. Kal is pretty much on track with everything he has said. Definately agree with the Q6600, it is one of the best overclockers/multitaskers on the market for its price. As well as the case, especially because the Q6600 already does amazing on air cooling. Hard Drive is a good choice as well although I might have chose a solid state drive instead. Kal is also correct on the power supply, it is possible to use lower watt power supplies as long as the 12v rails can supply enough power. As long as they don't go back on what the P45 was supposed to be. "A new low-cost solution to PCI-E 2.0." It should be a good setup.