Concerns

[Rathi04]

I agree with that. Something other than promise of earth (attacker gets slowed) and our DP skill. Don't get me wrong our +500stats boost is awesome but I doubt its gonna get used enough to help all the time.

[danstaff]

Originally Posted by Rathi04

I agree with that. Something other than promise of earth (attacker gets slowed) and our DP skill. Don't get me wrong our +500stats boost is awesome but I doubt its gonna get used enough to help all the time.

i wonder if +500 stats for 30 secs is overpowered or what...500 sounds like a lot.

[Szaman]

Originally Posted by danstaff

Gives the target a 30% chance to attack one additional time per successful hit. Duration: 5 minutes.

Thats going to be a popular one... the aion windfury. Im not looking forward to being in a siege with 50+ melee around begging for 5 mins rebuffs CONSTANTLY. lol

I hope they make an easy way to apply them or increase the length.

I recon you did not play L2... Buffs are essential there and it's common practice for a party to consist in 50%+ of JUST buffers (keep in mind, that end game healers also use powerfull buffs that are class restricted). And the party in there is 9 people.
Buffing every 5 minutes? It's a joke really. Aion doesn't even come close to the sheer amount of buffs available in L2 (about 12 buffing/healing classes in this game, each with it's own set of buffs). General buffs duration time is 20 minutes, but the "must-haves" are either 2 minutes (dances / songs) or 4 minutes (prophesies).

Originally Posted by danstaff

in any case i can at least hope chanters will be closer to overlords(l2) or enhancement shamans(wow) rather than prophets from l2.

all of the above classes were buff specialists

Oh god... Overlord.
Sorry, but I have to shatter your dreams - OLs arent buff specialists. They never were. Warcryers are.
The Overlord class concept was superb - there we have an orc exlusive archetype class that is to act (RP wise) as a tribe leader, whose buffs effect ALL clan members within the range (regardless if they are in party or not etc.), with great passive skills and physique (OL and Warcyer have the highest Con/Str among all the buffers, they get skills for all types of armor etc.), with toggle skills that make them powerfull melee combatants (both OL and WC) AND give powerfull physical protection (OL only), who is a superb debuffer (all of them are MASS debuffs), who wields AoE DoT "nukes" (like aoe poison, aoe flame), who is a master of crowd control (mass root, mass skill to detarget aggro, sleep spell etc.), a class with very powerfull and usefull nuke (drain, that damages an opponent and gives 90% of the dmg amount to you as hp, thus healing you).
What DID we get? None of those. Well, in very early chronicles it might have been the case for some of those points.
But it all ended up in basically hardly anyone playing OL - they were and are a rare breed that's just a step from being wiped out. I won't go into details why it is so as it's not the point here. The point is - I sure a hell hope Chanters will NOT be castrated like Overlords are.
Why do I bother? Because I play OL (been playing for close to 3 freakin' years) and I intend to play Chanter.

Originally Posted by danstaff

i wonder if +500 stats for 30 secs is overpowered or what...500 sounds like a lot.

If fights will tend to last more then 30s (mass PvP) and given each side will have access to this type of buffs... It kinda looses it's appeal, does it?

[danstaff]

Originally Posted by Szaman

If fights will tend to last more then 30s (mass PvP) and given each side will have access to this type of buffs... It kinda looses it's appeal, does it?

Not really, because the buff is self only and im assuming since the SM fears and roots will most likely be nerfed that the 30 secs on this one may be nerfed too if +500 is really that big of a deal.

So ...

Order of Inspiration For 30 seconds, increase the speed of Physical and Magic attacks by 500. 10 DP 1 180 Self 40

With it being only 10 DP compared to some dp attacks costing 1k-2k...who knows how it stands "power"-wise.


About the whole L2 comparison with overlords. The point i was trying to get across was that it is possible that chanter can be hybrid or dps/buff oriented. People were debating with me on whether chanter had dps potential. I simply offered Overlord and shaman from wow as an example. I never meant to label OL's as pure buffers.... i dont think i implied it but they definately have their share of buffs as do chanters.


Im trying to compare aion to as many past mmo's as i can since we cant just speculate on aions future based on L2, wow, eq, or even FFXI alone. Its the same developer as L2 but uses ideas from previous mmo's and brand new ideas. I think i remember them saying that it was mostly a cross between L2 and wow but with stronger emphasis on improving the aspects that people complained about in L2.

Although i didnt play L2 very long. Im a firm believer that aion will blow it out of the water. The year i did play i found pvp pretty boring for the most part tbh. I think what bothered me most from what i can remember was 5-10 buffers being botted so they would automatically buff allies that approached. Im pretty sure i even read that it was allowed by ncsoft as long as requirements were met. Like the bots were not involved in combat or within __ range.

Kinda takes the fun out of things.

[Rathi04]

Weather or not the +500 stats is overpowered or not really depends on the rate at which chanters gain DP. Does anyone know if you gain DP by taking hits or by dealing damage or even a combo of both?

[Otium]

Originally Posted by danstaff

I'd like to melee DPS

If all the supports wanted to be like you, parties would be doomed. Your job is to stay in a safe place, buffing and healing all your battle mates, not jump into a bunch of people trying to deal damage, which will end up in your obvious death. Leave the damage dealing to the classes that are meant to do it. Your duty is to keep your party alive, and nothing else. Why is it so hard to understand?

[Rathi04]

I'm sorry, but there is no way you can say what our roll is as of now as most of if any of us are in beta. What if you have a decent cleric and everything is running smoothly, are you going to just sit there watching buff timers doing nothing else? Any added damage is a bonus if you're not being stupid about it.

[Tareith]

That's what will seperate a good player from a bad one, the more things you can do in addition to your base role (while not neglecting it), the more skilled the player. This is the way I think NC is heading with them. Now granted, you wouldn't want to be doing the same or even close to the same DPS as a DPS class, that'd be unfair.

[T3ngu]

Originally Posted by Rathi04

I'm sorry, but there is no way you can say what our roll is as of now as most of if any of us are in beta. What if you have a decent cleric and everything is running smoothly, are you going to just sit there watching buff timers doing nothing else? Any added damage is a bonus if you're not being stupid about it.

Agreed. I'm guessing the offensive skills on clerics might possibly be there for a reason, like BEING USED. It's pretty dumb to tell people what to do when they don't even know the details on the classes or game mechanics, only the things they read about.

[Otium]

Originally Posted by Rathi04

I'm sorry, but there is no way you can say what our roll is as of now as most of if any of us are in beta. What if you have a decent cleric and everything is running smoothly, are you going to just sit there watching buff timers doing nothing else? Any added damage is a bonus if you're not being stupid about it.

Yes, I can. You are a support class and that obviously leads to the conclusion that you won't be a DD class. Buffs won't last forever and according to the skill list, Chanter will be capable of healing, even if not as efficiently as a Chanter. The point is that during PvP you won't, most likely, have time to be dealing damage to your opponents. In fact, you can even become a weight to your party as you can be waking up mobs or just messing with the crowd control.

Originally Posted by Tareith

That's what will seperate a good player from a bad one, the more things you can do in addition to your base role (while not neglecting it), the more skilled the player. This is the way I think NC is heading with them. Now granted, you wouldn't want to be doing the same or even close to the same DPS as a DPS class, that'd be unfair.

Even if you're extremely good you won't survive if you rush into a group of people to deal damage. Since you're a soft target, you'll be top priority to go down, so, if you insist in going melee DPS you can call yourself a candy to the opponent's DDs. I know how most of you feel, because I myself have played support classes for a long time, but you will end up not making damage neither healing your party because you'll die really fast, even if you're good. From my MMORPG experience I can tell you that everytime i've parties with Rambo supports, not only their damage was pointless since it was pathetic compared to the damage dealing classes, but they would also get distracted with the mobs ending up not giving decent support, failing with buffs, or missing heals.

Originally Posted by T3ngu

Agreed. I'm guessing the offensive skills on clerics might possibly be there for a reason, like BEING USED. It's pretty dumb to tell people what to do when they don't even know the details on the classes or game mechanics, only the things they read about.

And what was the level you needed to learn that skill? Usually, in lower lvls, all the classes get those general skills since their job is yet to be specifically developed. Do you really think that in end-game you'll have any decent DD skill?

[Tareith]

Personally I was thinking more like a bard in FFXI. You start with your Songs, later you learn how to pinch heal, next some CC, and finally, mastering pulls. It was really obvious when you had a good bard vs a so-so one. Of course, I personally would rank meleeing as the last thing I'd try to mix in when in a PVE party, mostly due to extra hate/threat.

[Rathi04]

Originally Posted by Otium

Yes, I can. You are a support class and that obviously leads to the conclusion that you won't be a DD class. Buffs won't last forever and according to the skill list, Chanter will be capable of healing, even if not as efficiently as a Chanter. The point is that during PvP you won't, most likely, have time to be dealing damage to your opponents. In fact, you can even become a weight to your party as you can be waking up mobs or just messing with the crowd control.

The ignorance in this post is absolutely mind boggling. The majority of the posts in this thread have been about our role in a party and yes, in pvp you're restricted even more. But do you have any idea the number of different classes spanning the spectrum of different games changed their role entirely from what they were first invisioned? Just because a class is labeled support doesn't mean at all thats what 100% they're doing all the time.

I never said that we're going to compete for damage with another nuker or melee like a true DPS class, just that we have the ability to do so when we have everybody buffed and healed. When a group asks you to tank and you turn them down because you're a dps class, we'll all see how that turns out.

[Casino]

Originally Posted by Otium

If all the supports wanted to be like you, parties would be doomed. Your job is to stay in a safe place, buffing and healing all your battle mates, not jump into a bunch of people trying to deal damage, which will end up in your obvious death. Leave the damage dealing to the classes that are meant to do it. Your duty is to keep your party alive, and nothing else. Why is it so hard to understand?

pretty sure that is the clerics job, not chanter. thanks try again.

[Otium]

Originally Posted by Rathi04

The ignorance in this post is absolutely mind boggling. The majority of the posts in this thread have been about our role in a party and yes, in pvp you're restricted even more. But do you have any idea the number of different classes spanning the spectrum of different games changed their role entirely from what they were first invisioned? Just because a class is labeled support doesn't mean at all thats what 100% they're doing all the time.

Am I ignorant for believing the obvious? Ofc you can deal all the damage you want and even become an hybrid buffer and whatnot, but the question is: Are you going to be efficient in both your functions? Some people may be, others may not. And those who can't, usually think they can, and it's really annoying to see them failing on supporting while they are attacking a mob. I guess time will tell...

Originally Posted by Rathi04

I never said that we're going to compete for damage with another nuker or melee like a true DPS class, just that we have the ability to do so when we have everybody buffed and healed. When a group asks you to tank and you turn them down because you're a dps class, we'll all see how that turns out.

I can help tanking the same way you can help healing. But for sure people won't ask me to be a support because that's not my function. As a chanter you can help healing and that's more than enough to keep you busy imo. Not to mention that you'll be able to remove debuffs and everything else. Should I mention the fact that by melee attacking you'll pull some agro in mobs, and the Cletic of your party will need to spend extra mana just because you've decided to be a hero? Or should I metion that your mana is already precious for support routines but still, you want to spend it on your attacking skills?

I'm here discussing a class and proving my point. You can keep calling me ignorant and stupid, but that's not the way to go if you want to be heard. If you really need to curse to stand your ground, you kinda pitty me.

[Rathi04]

Originally Posted by Otium

Am I ignorant for believing the obvious?

Yes.

This post needs ten characters.