Concerns

[Otium]

This discussion won't lead anywhere simply because no one will twist his arm. Everyone has their ideas, and I have mine, because I know that above DD is your duty to support your party well, and most of the players usually forget that they are there to heal and buff. Even if you can turn your Chanter into a "decent" damage dealer with all the customization features, who would grab such a Chanter instead of an assassin/ranger/gladiator? If you're expecting something like WoW, in order to get your specializations focused on attacks, you will lose in buffs, and that might not be the best idea.

NCsoft created L2, and although it won't be the same game, NCsoft will always be NCsoft, and their policies won't change, unless they have redeemed themselves. That's the only reason why I like to compare Aion with Lineage at some point.

About my gladiator, i'm yet to understand why you're bad-mouthing it or using it to prevent me of entering into a discussion of another class. It's not your call to send me somewhere else to post neither could I give more of damn about it, you just have to deal with it since we're in a forum where everyone has the right to express their opinion no matter how hard it is for you to accept.

I'm not asking you to do what i'm saying. If you have anything new to add to this discussion go ahead. If you're going to press the same button again, PM me and i'll be glad to discuss stuff with you.

[Casino]

otium, ncsoft also said aion will not be the grinder L2 was, so any parallels can't be believed at this point. NCSoft also is a company and i'll bet that the team designing aion is composed of mostly new members since L2 was designed. NCSoft itself is not some overwhelming entity that solo designs its games, the new people will bring new ideas and thoughts on different balances will seep into the game regardless.

though if it turns out as you say and chanters stand there and buff and do nothing else but spot heal (why would this even be necessary in the first place, though) i'm certainly changing classes because i will be useless and would have no progression path. any chanter can stand and select buffs, hell if ncsoft allows it this style of chanter will become more bots than real players. if this is the way chanters will be you won't even need gear really. all you have to do is have mana to buff every once in a while.

[Otium]

Originally Posted by Casino

otium, ncsoft also said aion will not be the grinder L2 was, so any parallels can't be believed at this point. NCSoft also is a company and i'll bet that the team designing aion is composed of mostly new members since L2 was designed. NCSoft itself is not some overwhelming entity that solo designs its games, the new people will bring new ideas and thoughts on different balances will seep into the game regardless.

I believe NCsoft will grab on some successful formulas like WoW, in order to get a good game. Obviously, the new dev team may have different ideas for Aion than those they had years ago for Lineage, but the company's policy and efforts to, for example, patrol the servers will have a huge weight on Aion's success. If they keep closing their eyes to account sales or botting festivals, then we will have a ruined game some months after release. I like to come with some comparisons between both projects because I believe some of the previous ideas NCsoft implemented in past games will somehow be present in Aion.

Originally Posted by Casino

though if it turns out as you say and chanters stand there and buff and do nothing else but spot heal (why would this even be necessary in the first place, though) i'm certainly changing classes because i will be useless and would have no progression path. any chanter can stand and select buffs, hell if ncsoft allows it this style of chanter will become more bots than real players. if this is the way chanters will be you won't even need gear really. all you have to do is have mana to buff every once in a while.

That's how buffers pretty much worked on L2. I'm at your side when you don't want to feel useless while using a buffer, but I would prefer to see a buffer using certain debuffs on mobs than attacking them. That may just be me, but wouldn't it be better to lower someone's attack speed, or rooting a mob to the ground instead of wasting mana on a damage that will be overwhelmed by the DDs of your party?

[Casino]

at present though, chanters really don't have many debuffs. one that slows attack speed if the chanter is struck (i think.. i'll check wiki after i post this) and one that reduces defense by 100, which may or may not be significant and we don't know how long it lasts also. a pure buff/debuff class could be interesting, but there still is no real progression path seeing as your efforts are not measurable by damage/healing performed or mitigation of damage. unless chanter's gear is completely different than anyone else's where instead of more dexterity you'd have 'increases xx buff/debuff by x%' on every item you are wearing. though it will be difficult to gear a chanter if that were to happen since you'd have to deal with the other 7 classes worth of gear drops who can to a certain extent cross gear while you cannot.

edit: ok checked the wiki. the attack speed debuff IS when the chanter is struck.. so good luck getting that on a boss or raid mob that would 1 shot you. the defense reduction lasts 8 sec for rank 1 and 10 seconds for rank 2, i didn't notice any higher ranks, but i'd assume there would probably be 2-3 more ranks putting it up to at least 12-16 seconds duration, though the skill lists a recast cooldown of 8 seconds.

[Heinel]

I'd actually hope chanters to become more like swordsingers or bladedancers, or even orc mages but not prophets.

Cycle rebuff then sit for 15 mins is an absurd mechanic for a game.

[Rathi04]

Originally Posted by Otium

This discussion won't lead anywhere simply because no one will twist his arm. Everyone has their ideas, and I have mine, because I know that above DD is your duty to support your party well, and most of the players usually forget that they are there to heal and buff.

This whole "discussion" came from you implying that chanters want to be another class than a buffer. When most of us were replying to the stuff we do AFTER we buff and heal. So yes, Buff/heal is our top priority but most of us were talking about the other things to do in the 5min after we buff a group.

No one wants to play a class that doesn't have an active roll in battles. If the group has a good cleric who keeps everyone topped off and doesn't need the help, I'm gonna throw out a nuke here and there to help the DPS classes kill a bit faster. The hardest thing right now is trying to figure out truely what a chanter can do, we get a bit of everything so it is really hard to say with out some hard data. Who knows, our nuke w/ a stun might be a nice interrupt for mobs casting or a rank 1 armor reduction nuke might help a lot.

I see a battle going like this: Buff during down time, heal if cleric can't hold their weight, and DPS when everything is fine. We have skills that give us mana back and I'm sure there are mana pots in the game so I doubt it will come out early game that a party wipes because a chanter threw in a nuke here and there. If a gladiator only had auto attack that started at the beginning of the battle and lasted 5min, while you did nothing but watch your character attack with no interaction, I doubt you would enjoy yourself too.

[adrianus]

didn't read all the topic... but why worry so much... because of self heal any healer can be very strong in pvp. As long as i've seen in perfect world.. the best pvp-ers r the healers. but yeah.. when it comes 2 party in raids and exp party .. i prefer a healer 2 watch our HP and constantly heal/rebuff.. the rest will watch on the mobs/bosses or w.e. I've played healer char in PW and I know they r really good in party and they always get a party . also my second choice in playing is a healer..

[Zanny]

The secret with healing - if a class can heal, it will heal.

[Rathi04]

Originally Posted by Zanny

The secret with healing - if a class can heal, it will heal.

So a class that can melee will melee?

So a class that can nuke will nuke?

what about a class that can nuke, melee, and heal?

[Zanny]

Originally Posted by Rathi04

So a class that can melee will melee?

So a class that can nuke will nuke?

what about a class that can nuke, melee, and heal?

Only applies to healers.

If a class can nuke, melee, and heal, it will heal.

[Rathi04]

Yay, another open minded gladiator that takes everything into perspective.

[Kriaser]

Originally Posted by Zanny

Only applies to healers.

If a class can nuke, melee, and heal, it will heal.

I'm sorry, but have you played any hybrids before? If a class can do everything, and is specialized in everything, they WILL do everything. There is no Chanter that is going to be in a group of 6 or 24 that is going to sit idle and play healer when they can be performing (probably likely) better than most DPS. If you insist on believing a Chanter is nothing more than simple support and heal, I think you really need to look a little closer.

[danstaff]

Originally Posted by Zanny

Only applies to healers.

If a class can nuke, melee, and heal, it will heal.

lol...ok now their just trolling, im burned out on arguing with close minded fools. We'll see when the game comes out.

[Karnage]

The reason that the Gladiators are having such a hard time grasping the well made points that are being made is that they have chosen a one-trick pony as opposed to our jack-of-all-trades. The Chanter is exactly that. The buffs are only there to increase the power of the group, or the solo chanter. The are designed to fight in that down-time. Even their armor is designed for quick battle and support nuking. These are the attributes of chain armor according to the site wiki.

Details
This armor is used for any non-magical players. Its mostly geared towards the School of Clerics.

Attributes
Confirmed attributes:

Concentration - Increase
Dodge - Increase
Special attributes (uncommon or rare/unique items)

Concentration - Increase
Moving Speed - Increase
Strength - Increase
Power - Increase
Will - Increase
Critical Chance - Increase
Spirit - Increase

[Blazze889]

as much as I too share these fears
I have full confidence in NCsoft and not making such a move
plus how active they are on these forums, they know what the people want