Concerns

[Rathi04]

@Birdman

If you weed though the thread and look at my posts, I've never actually said what the class is. I'm hoping that its a form of hybrid or jack of all trades that is decent at everything but not the best at anything (other than buffing). My main point to Otium was that if everything was going smoothly and the cleric didn't need any help in group pve play we would be able to melee and/or nuke to help out the group when we weren't buffing.

So far I can only rely in knowledge from the previous games I played and hope that NCsoft takes the best of everything out of those games for Aion. Aside from looking over the chanter skill list in Aionsource's wiki and the vague class description, your guess is as good as mine.

[VendorTrash]

Originally Posted by birdman

Rathi, what makes you think that Chanters are going to be DPS/anything that isn't a buffer? Everything that has been said so far points in that direction, do you have some considerable evidence to prove otherwise?

this forum is split

half the people that post here as chanters think they are for dps (with no evidence to back it)

the other half like me thinks they are purely a buffer/support class with no main role as a dps (with evidence to back it)

there was a thread in here that was just recently moved to the graveyard (go figure) where I put up a good argument backing claims that it is a obvious buffer/support type class and not for dps. here is the thread, just read all the posts. Chanter a very offensive class !

[Rathi04]

That video showed nothing more then our class getting our *** beat by a dps class. It didn't show anything of chanter's being a dps class lol. Most of my input has come from the PVE point, its way too early to talk about pve yet since there are so many variables that could effect the outcome.

[Karnage]

The Chanter has no evidence towards it's overall role besides the fact that NCSoft has said it will be the best at buffs, and the opinions of close-minded people on both sides. I'm keeping a relatively open mind about it, but from what I've seen the Chanter is going to be the ultimate technical fighter. The arguments everyone are making hinge on the fact that the Chanter will never buff itself. Don't you think that considering the buffs we've had revealed that a Chanter could be a significant threat with enough patience and skill? And VendorTrash, those points you made fall under the close-minded category.

[Lucio]

I believe the chanters will have a long cast heavy heal and a short cast weak heal. The clerics will have heal over time spells, flash heals, heals with high crits and so on, u kno a real healing specialist. But that doesn't mean the chanter's heals have to be weak at all. The chanter from the vids already show a bit of promise with some heavy cast spells from that gladiator chanter vid. So it seems to be fine and pve vids have shown a chanter dpsing with only its staff and saving its SP for heals. The class can b done a whole bunch of ways it seems already, i don't think there is need to b concerned until u see wat the class is like at end game.

[Tareith]

As long as it's a buffer class (not hybrid), I'm happy. If it's a Hybrid class, I'll just go roll something else (like a cleric). It'd be kinda strange for it to have any significant melee DPS considering it's a branch of the Priest tree, but we'll see.

[Rathi04]

If we could get someone who is nice enough to give us screen shots of the chanter talent trees we would be able to make a much better assumption of what a chanter can do.

[Lucio]

Originally Posted by Haubix

Here comes live translation #2. Have fun reading!

Disclaimer:

This is the raw translated text from the interview.
All grammatical errors/bugs/etc. are copyrighted.
Feel free to transform this raw text into beautiful correct english sentences
Source: Live stream from allvatar.com

Devs are concentrated on analysing the beta data; balancing data
1st time they introduced pvp -> analysed which class died how often, what skills were used, etc

Main focus on balancing, there were doubt about content: they are working on it

Translations are running parallel to cbt testing in korea;
First english, then other languages. They aim to keep as close to the original as possible;
they dont want to do a miserable translation, they aim for quality

EU/US Beta expected this year

-> dont believe release dates from online-trading platforms (amazon, etc)

Balancing: Devs got lots of log data
e.g. which class killed which class, who died how often, what was used to kill? (skills)

Hunter strong in PvP, suits the projected role, have most kills
many details to get balanced;

melee classes cant get to players to kill them -> you see that in log files
devs think about introducing skills to prevent that: maybe faster running

there won't be a rock-scissor-paper-system
logfiles very helpful, "you can't imagine what we're able to see "

• Talent trees? Skill trees? Specialization?

Standard classes, with lvl 9 -> quest to specialize into a specific class (e.g. warrior -> templar or gladiator)
from then there will be no "tree", you can buy all skills (->moneysink) from npcs
you can have all standard skills if you have enough many (due the huge variety)

Stigma -> level 20 quest, unlock stigma slots; the fact that you have all skills don't mean that you're like the rest (regarding diversity)
there are weapons/armors with different attributes, they have slots for mana stones(drop or buyable from npc);
Mana stones are comparable to runes in GuildWars, they are cumulative;

Cut the article a bit, but that shows something about talent trees, im sure that only confuses things more lol.

[birdman]

To quote the wiki:

The Chanter's main source of damage will be buffing. Buffing themself as well as party members will increase damage, hp, range, or other things to help wipe out the enemies.

It's just hard to believe that a class that is going to be the party buffer happens to also be great at melee/ranged dps. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

It would be far more convincing if you provided evidence to support that chanters will be a strong dps class instead of using the lack of evidence against that particular idea. Isn't the burden of proof on you to prove your point and not us to disprove it?


Anyways, no need to get too hostile over it ;p.

[Horny]

Well too bad this turned into a dps or buffer discussion.
It seems that some people are too lazy to read... we kinda had all that already... and now we don't really have to discuss it twice do we?
Anyway it would be more fun if we didn't fix on just 2 of those ... we had discussion going what the Chanter might be... also later in the game(not just the classic buffer or dps char).
'Cause one thing can be sure - NCSoft still wants to change the Chanter. If he's still in the CBT we can argue about reviews... but those aren't worth that much, since they still change quite some stuff.

[buglepong]

Any class that can solo must be able to do enough damage to mobs before death. For a low damage class the ability to prevent death by healing or tanking means the ability to solo, albeit slowly. NCsoft revealed they would modify clerics and chanters to be able to solo in the next phase of testing. If they had been unable to, perhaps it is the intention that they should be able to do so in a capacity fitting of a "support class". Granting additional healing or tanking ability (instead of damage power) to prevent death during soloing would fulfill such a promise. On the other hand if chanters and clerics had been able to solo in such a manner, then a reasonable interpretation would be the solo ability of these classes be made viable instead of simply possible; "viability" meaning the activity of soloing not be incomparable to the activity of partying in relation to character/game progress. It must be necessary that the ability to kill mobs quickly be true and present, which in turn necessarily indicates an increase in damage per second or DPS. In MMOs what is true of the individual in solo will be strongly reflected in parties. Thus it is entirely probable that classes from the priest school have strong offensive potential.

It would be great if the letter case was true, wouldn't it?

[Tareith]

Sadly, you don't have to increase the DPS of a class to make it solo as fast as other classes. Typically, tanks and healer types are able to solo due to a reduction in downtime. As long as over the course of 1 hour Classes A, B, and C all can kill the same number of mobs (or even gain the same amount of exp killing different levels of mobs), the soloablity of the classes is supposedly on-par. Of course, this does not count harder than normal quest mobs or special mobs. Another flaw with this method is that in a PVP environment, the classes that sacrifice DPS for healing/mitigation aren't a threat to higher DPS classes, just an annoyance (while that tank or healer can't kill you unless you go for coffee, it'll take forever to take them down as well).

The best overall solution that I've seen to this is to give a buffer class, very short term but long cooldown self buffs made to give them good burst DPS for PVE but not practical enough for PVP. Mob AI typically isn't intelligent enough to know to root/disable or avoid a character for 15 seconds because they just used "uber glowy buff of DPS".

[buglepong]

Originally Posted by Tareith

The best overall solution that I've seen to this is to give a buffer class, very short term but long cooldown self buffs made to give them good burst DPS for PVE but not practical enough for PVP

A short term timer would seem to favour pvp application more, at least in small scale or 1 on 1 engagements. Ingenious defenses/counters can be themselves countered. The argument that a mob is not a human can be used both ways; a human will not respond like a mob, but neither will a human be approached as a mob.

[pernicion]

From what I've seen from class trailers and scavenged through readings on chanters here and there, it really seems that chanters will both buff/support heal(obviously) with enough melee dps to make at least a small difference in killing times for parties. With effective tanking, I doubt it would be overly dangerous to stand within melee range when fighting single mobs, at least, as the time taken to reapply buffs and such would lower their aggro. Off-healing and melee dps and even some debuffing, judging from the wiki chanter skill listings (though these are out of date) would provide not only viable ways for a chanter to contribute to a party beyond merely buffing, it'd also make the gameplay for the chanter much more complicated and entertaining. The main function for the chanter will still be buffing, of course, but as the number of short term-short cool down buffs from the preliminary skill list is pretty limited, this would spice up gameplay so Chanters aren't just buff-bots.

At least, that's my interpretation of Chanter's place in parties, anyway.

Also, from CBT2, I think Chanters did have a self-buff that improved all attributes significantly, lasting for half a minute with a cooldown of three minutes. It required some small DP usage though.

[Threnody]

I hate to add to this ridiculously endless speculation thread but is it really difficult for people to see that everyone is right at least a little bit? Nothing is firm and final, and yet some are flat out calling people 'wrong'. How silly.

Chanter most likely is not going to be a typical hybrid class. It could be considered 'specialized'. They will buff/debuff, capable of casting nasty instant damage spells (one of which stuns) and they will be able to melee and wear up to chain mail.

The question of DPS is a moot point. Of course they will be able to output damage (melee and spellcasting) and of course they won't be the ultimate DPS machine when compared to some of the other classes.

And if in the end if the devs decide to give Chanter a little more DPS boost for soloing purposes is that such a bad thing? They still won't be capable of outputting consistent crazy overthetop damage that would make them the #1 DPS class and negate their role as buffers/healing. Enough with the worrying.