Concerns

[danstaff]

Anyone else concerned about the direction of the chanter? It seems like most people think that the chanters role is just to buff/rebuff and off heal. People also say that chanters should not be able to main heal or DPS a decent bit in groups.

So where does that leave us if the only thing we are good at is rebuffing? Our healing doesnt appear so specialized that a cleric couldnt take our place. I would find it hard to believe that a 6 man needs 2 healers.

Dont get me wrong. I look forward to bringing good buffs to the table but id like to look forward to growing too. For example... Assassins getting excited about getting new weapons or stats thatll raise their general DPS, crit, dodge etc. Buffs are static. Wheres our competitive growth at if we cant look forward to gearing up to main heal or pump out worthwhile DPS?

Im just hoping that we are able to grow into more specialized roles. It would be nice if we had the capability to DPS or heal maybe... 80% as effective as a healer or dps can.

Me personally? I'd like to melee DPS and provide auras to other melee in range during pvp. Im guessing in game that most chanters are far back healing (beyond the 10 yard range of auras) to avoid being focused on like most healers are in PVP. I'm sure in pvp melee would like the hp regen/dmg reduction aura...or +crit etc.


Im still waiting for word back from beta testers but what are your thoughts?

[T3ngu]

Yeah, it would be a shame if they just turned Chanters into a generic support class that can only buff and heal allies. Apparently they will be getting a buff, which will hopefully be enough to make them into a versatile support/fighter instead of a class where you just hit your buff macros once every few minutes. I expect a fully buffed Chanter to be able to hold their own against unbuffed warrior classes.

[omokiron]

No offense but do you have any idea how broken a chanter would be if they could heal 80% as well as a cleric and dps 80% as well as a damage dealer? Their buffs are being boosted, their role is pretty clear cut though I'm sure many will take them out of that role it still remains for the time being their role in Aion: Buffers. If the buffs are strong enough then there will always be a huge demand for Chanters regardless of their other abilities. Their ability to heal and buff is a huge benefit and I don't see why you think they should be basically an 'uber class'. I guess you've never really played a strong buff job (if anybody knows of BRD in FFXI you know what I mean) because they are ALWAYS wanted and desired and usually get snatched up super fast and always are busy and having something to do. With the sheer mountain of abilities of chanter and most classes you'll be busy. Though I guess if you or other chanters don't know how to dynamically apply yourself or adapt to changing situations in battle, then the class of chanter would be boring since you'd only do the same ability over and over and sitting.

I've seen buff classes played wrong and people complain they're weak and boring, I've seen them played right and seen how great a party benefits from it. If you wanna go ahead and dps in a party against strong mobs then that's your prerogative but don't say you think the class needs to be changed when A) You haven't played it B) It's not fully balanced/finished C) You don't know how it plays yet and D) You don't have any inkling as to what game balance means or else you wouldn't of posted 80% at all.

[T3ngu]

Originally Posted by omokiron

No offense but do you have any idea how broken a chanter would be if they could heal 80% as well as a cleric and dps 80% as well as a damage dealer? Their buffs are being boosted, their role is pretty clear cut though I'm sure many will take them out of that role it still remains for the time being their role in Aion: Buffers. If the buffs are strong enough then there will always be a huge demand for Chanters regardless of their other abilities. Their ability to heal and buff is a huge benefit and I don't see why you think they should be basically an 'uber class'. I guess you've never really played a strong buff job (if anybody knows of BRD in FFXI you know what I mean) because they are ALWAYS wanted and desired and usually get snatched up super fast and always are busy and having something to do. With the sheer mountain of abilities of chanter and most classes you'll be busy. Though I guess if you or other chanters don't know how to dynamically apply yourself or adapt to changing situations in battle, then the class of chanter would be boring since you'd only do the same ability over and over and sitting.

I've seen buff classes played wrong and people complain they're weak and boring, I've seen them played right and seen how great a party benefits from it. If you wanna go ahead and dps in a party against strong mobs then that's your prerogative but don't say you think the class needs to be changed when A) You haven't played it B) It's not fully balanced/finished C) You don't know how it plays yet and D) You don't have any inkling as to what game balance means or else you wouldn't of posted 80% at all.

I don't know what you're getting so worked up about, he never once said he played the class or that it's finished, or that it NEEDS to be changed. He's just commenting on what he thinks about the direction that Chanters seem to be going.

I do agree that that their main role is to buff though, so I don't expect their heals to be nearly as effective as healing classes. However my impression is that Chanters are advertised as a buffer/damage dealer, and can learn skills that back up that idea, so hopefully they will be able to do both. Of course, I don't expect them to have as much survivability as other damage dealers so you wouldn't be able to just charge into a group of mobs just because you're buffed.

[omokiron]

Not really worked up, I guess it's a pet peeve when people join and then immediately start recommending things change to benefit the class they want to obviously be. From the skills that I know they have, they are mainly a buffer class with a few damage dealing abilities (all classes have a few of those, even cleric) I don't think that they should do nothing but buff so don't get me wrong. It all depends on your party, if you're going against mobs that have AOE then you'd be an MP sponge to be up and close whacking at it since there's no way a cleric should do near the damage of an up-front class like Gladiator.

I've seen it too many times in my experience that somebody wants to do something the job simply is not catered to doing, and they end up bringing their whole party down. I know chanter is getting a boost with CBT3 and I hope it allows them to be more desired and versatile as well as being able to solo better (problem i've heard of with those two classes especially). It's the fact that he said 80% of healing ability and 80% of dps which is just downright silly. His words had implications that implied that he thought they should be altered and the post was filled primarily with complaints about the direction of the job. It's pretty simple, if you don't want like the direction of the class/job pick another.

Party dynamics are usually pretty static depending on what game/area you play but they typically look like this: Tank, Healer, Buffer, 3 Damage Dealer. Sometimes another buffer if it's worthwhile or a job that can debuff the mob it all depends on what you're after but the basic formula allots for a buffer in 90% of the cases, so unless the buff job is horrible, or unless the party is not aware a buff will benefit them more there will almost always be a spot for a buffer, horrible or not people seem to love buffers in their parties.

[Tareith]

As long as Chanters are buffers first and foremost, pinch healer second, and everything else last, I'm happy. The only time we should be DPSing in a group environment is when we don't have any buffs to apply and everyone is healed. If they increase our damage or healing too much, the dynamics of the class totally change. Buffer class =/= Hybrid class in my book. The only risky part is how to make one useful in PVP w/o killing it's primary use in PVE. Best solution I can think of is CC, Self heals, and very short term self buffs.

[danstaff]

Originally Posted by omokiron

No offense but do you have any idea how broken a chanter would be if they could heal 80% as well as a cleric and dps 80% as well as a damage dealer? Their buffs are being boosted, their role is pretty clear cut though I'm sure many will take them out of that role it still remains for the time being their role in Aion: Buffers. If the buffs are strong enough then there will always be a huge demand for Chanters regardless of their other abilities. Their ability to heal and buff is a huge benefit and I don't see why you think they should be basically an 'uber class'. I guess you've never really played a strong buff job (if anybody knows of BRD in FFXI you know what I mean) because they are ALWAYS wanted and desired and usually get snatched up super fast and always are busy and having something to do. With the sheer mountain of abilities of chanter and most classes you'll be busy. Though I guess if you or other chanters don't know how to dynamically apply yourself or adapt to changing situations in battle, then the class of chanter would be boring since you'd only do the same ability over and over and sitting.

I've seen buff classes played wrong and people complain they're weak and boring, I've seen them played right and seen how great a party benefits from it. If you wanna go ahead and dps in a party against strong mobs then that's your prerogative but don't say you think the class needs to be changed when A) You haven't played it B) It's not fully balanced/finished C) You don't know how it plays yet and D) You don't have any inkling as to what game balance means or else you wouldn't of posted 80% at all.

Dont get me wrong... i never said ANY chanter should be able to do 80% dps AND healing....BUT if a chanter chooses to specialize in DPS and stack agility or strength etc then they could be better in DPS and less effective when it comes to mana efficientcy/healing and visa versa

"C) You don't know how it plays yet"

Sure its a bit early to say but beta testers have already posted some concerns in korean forums from the sounds of it so lets talk...

"You don't have any inkling as to what game balance means or else you wouldn't of posted 80% at all."

Im not sure why people get so worked up at the idea of having chanter as a hybrid rather than a support class. Is 80% really that bad? I mean seriously... in most mmo's some geared hybrids can out heal or out dps other classes dedicated to dps/healing. I wouldnt want chanters to out DPS/heal other classes in general at all.

In the past, ive played DD classes and have always welcomed the competition and variety. With variety of dps comes new and useful buffs like the example stated above with melee receiving auras.


"Though I guess if you or other chanters don't know how to dynamically apply yourself or adapt to changing situations in battle, then the class of chanter would be boring since you'd only do the same ability over and over and sitting."

Look at the current skills. I guarantee you that there is going to be "OP and Preferred" auras and there will be the bastard child auras that people dont use often. With the auras that are available right now i just dont see a situation in a boss fight where you would have to be switching auras constantly.

Theres going to be preferred auras for the group your in! Healer groups might want mana regen, tank group dodge or dmg reduction, dps melee maybe the crit or chance to hit one? If there was an aura that allowed the effected player to 100% avoid the next attack with a single charge/CD(for example) i could see aura switching viable. None of them look that "active".

If you think our time is going to be consumed with buffing and changing auras i think your wrong. Can this all change? definitely. Will it change drastically? probably not.

My point is they gave us a good selection of healing and damage spells for a reason... im hoping that those spells can benefit a pve raid/pvp scenario and are closer to competing with other classes than just a joke.

Something i thought id add regarding the FFXI comments. FF was a very unique mmo. People compare aion to a combo of WoW and L2 mostly, not FF. In FF its damn near impossible to solo mid-late game with each class and because of that buffers can specialize at buffing without much worry of having to solo or pvp.

I think ncsoft recognizes the complaints that L2 players had with getting bored with buff classes. Buffing classes we rarely used as mains and were mostly botted for pvp or people logged on them to pass out buffs and then logged onto a main.

we cant really have a bard or a pure buff specialist in aion when pve and pvp especially is going to be such a big part of the game.

FF was almost all party based.

[Riku]

The dev's did say they are going to improve chanter and cleric classes in reguards to attacking skills so they can solo better so this should translate into better pvp as well.

[omokiron]

Originally Posted by Tareith

As long as Chanters are buffers first and foremost, pinch healer second, and everything else last, I'm happy. The only time we should be DPSing in a group environment is when we don't have any buffs to apply and everyone is healed. If they increase our damage or healing too much, the dynamics of the class totally change. Buffer class =/= Hybrid class in my book. The only risky part is how to make one useful in PVP w/o killing it's primary use in PVE. Best solution I can think of is CC, Self heals, and very short term self buffs.

That's how I feel, buffers aren't hybrids, pure and simple. As to the response by dan, yes 80% is a huge drastic increase and it really would be 'that bad'. As to the rest I point you kindly at the post above as it is concise and to the point.

[danstaff]

Originally Posted by omokiron

That's how I feel, buffers aren't hybrids, pure and simple. As to the response by dan, yes 80% is a huge drastic increase and it really would be 'that bad'. As to the rest I point you kindly at the post above as it is concise and to the point.

Did NCsoft label chanters "buffers" or is that the playerbase? I've heard them reffered to as hybrid too. i guess it depends on what game u came from. Old wow players didnt really have a buffing class, just hybrids with probably just as many buffs as chanters. L2 had buffing classes, but even overlords held their own and then some in PvP/DPS.

Them buffing chanters for solo play and pvp has a very thin line too. If they up dps for chanters in order to make it easier for chanters to grind mobs their level then that will also make them more viable for a dps role. basically... it increases the potential.

I really dont see how they could stop people from stacking melee stats and dps gear and keep them from becoming DPS. It seems like a fun challenge and this wouldnt be the first mmo where people tried new things and succeded when thinking out of the box. I cant really claim that chanter dps will be overpowered or worthwhile anymore than people can tell me that i shouldnt even attempt it for w/e reason. It could fail or it could be a trend and turn out to be overpowered deserving a nerf.


Im sure that if people stacked melee stats and got good weapons they could do some interesting things in pvp with...

Order of the Guardian Increases all characteristics by 500 for 30 seconds. 10 DP 1 180 Self 37

and...

Nemisis(Rank.4) Inflicts 1139 magic damage and stuns the target for 3 seconds. 237 Instant 24 Single Target 40
or...

Promise of the Earth(Rank.3) All attacks against the caster reduces the attackers speed by 30%. Duration: 5 minutes. 275 2 1 Self 37



Sounds like we'd have some potential

in any case i can at least hope chanters will be closer to overlords(l2) or enhancement shamans(wow) rather than prophets from l2.

all of the above classes were buff specialists

********************

Im bored and stuck at work.....

Heres a few quotes from Wiki...

"The Chanter is one of the eight advanced character classes of Aion. Their specialty is in healing and fortifying magic, but they can also use a magic staff to great offensive effect. The Chanter uses mantras to strengthen allies and raise their morale. "

"While fortifying allies is its greatest strength, in an emergency a Chanter can transform into a powerful soldier and can fight in close range combat using their magic staff. "

"The Chanter will be a skill based class, but will be able to cave in heads with a Mace."

The Chanter will depend on Maces to destroy their enemies. Other one-handed weapons are possible. To be effected, a Chanter will need to stay fully buffed.

Sounds to me like an all around hybrid rather than just a buff specialist TBH.

[Tareith]

"While fortifying allies is its greatest strength, in an emergency a Chanter can transform into a powerful soldier and can fight in close range combat using their magic staff. "

Sounds like a buffing class to me. Then again, go read the original WoW class descriptions and laugh at what actually happened. In just about every MMO I've played, the players will change the direction of a class if given the time, normally in a direction the developers didn't have in mind (Ninja tanks in FFXI, Paladin main tanks in WoW, etc).

[danstaff]

Originally Posted by Tareith

"While fortifying allies is its greatest strength, in an emergency a Chanter can transform into a powerful soldier and can fight in close range combat using their magic staff. "

Sounds like a buffing class to me. Then again, go read the original WoW class descriptions and laugh at what actually happened. In just about every MMO I've played, the players will change the direction of a class if given the time, normally in a direction the developers didn't have in mind (Ninja tanks in FFXI, Paladin main tanks in WoW, etc).

Ah yea i hear ya. Palys and shaman had a very large selection of buffs too but depending how you geared them or specd them they could fill multiple roles. I hope we have a few options like that with chanter too.

[Rathi04]

It sounds almost like chanters will be closest to the shaman class from WoW. Melee DPS, Caster DPS, and the ability to heal. With out the correct gear and spec they would suck at any of the three, but specifically focusing on one of those specific areas they become proficent at it.

Thats how I feel a chanter should be. I agree that it would get boring just buffing and reapplying buffs, but I doubt that will be our only roll in battle because most would quit out of boardom.

[danstaff]

Originally Posted by Rathi04

It sounds almost like chanters will be closest to the shaman class from WoW. Melee DPS, Caster DPS, and the ability to heal. With out the correct gear and spec they would suck at any of the three, but specifically focusing on one of those specific areas they become proficent at it.

Thats how I feel a chanter should be. I agree that it would get boring just buffing and reapplying buffs, but I doubt that will be our only roll in battle because most would quit out of boardom.

Gives the target a 30% chance to attack one additional time per successful hit. Duration: 5 minutes.

Thats going to be a popular one... the aion windfury. Im not looking forward to being in a siege with 50+ melee around begging for 5 mins rebuffs CONSTANTLY. lol

I hope they make an easy way to apply them or increase the length.

[Tareith]

God, reminds me of being the only paladin in 40 mans back in the day. Really, just make it party only