Chanter Blamed for Wipes?

[The XiL]

ten

Keep up your temps. That is it. Word of Life as soon as you hit lvl for it. If it takes more than word of life and your temps to save the cleric someone else screwed up. Unless you're the idiot who pulled too many mobs of course. Also blaim in all group situations falls in this order and this order only, regardless of all other circumstances:

Ranger - yeah I tabded and pulled the whole dungeon again
Temp - when you say wait for that means pull right?
Cleric - I forgot to heal between spells
Cleric - I'm trying to save mana by healing at the last possible moment against high spiking elites
Cleric - afk again brb
Spiritmaster - my pet agro'd again sawy I'm a doosh
Spiritmaster - I'm not CC but I keep fearing mobs into other mobs like a giant doosh
Sorc - I can only CC one target cause I'm overwhelmed by multitasking
Sorc - I LIKE NUKES nyerk on your tree
Glad - what means "NO AE YOU STUPID SON OF A nyerk"?
Glad - but I like swirly hits
Glad - so you don't want me to AE? what about now?
Assassin - I was trying to get behind him, I blaim the tank for not turning the mob
Assassin - I told you to turn the mob
Assassin - I teleported to the wrong mob again sorry
Chanter - I was soloing after you all died but then the pat came back so I had to run, brb to rez

/thread

char

[Razir]

Originally Posted by The XiL

ten

Keep up your temps. That is it. Word of Life as soon as you hit lvl for it. If it takes more than word of life and your temps to save the cleric someone else screwed up. Unless you're the idiot who pulled too many mobs of course. Also blaim in all group situations falls in this order and this order only, regardless of all other circumstances:

Ranger - yeah I tabded and pulled the whole dungeon again
Temp - when you say wait for that means pull right?
Cleric - I forgot to heal between spells
Cleric - I'm trying to save mana by healing at the last possible moment against high spiking elites
Cleric - afk again brb
Spiritmaster - my pet agro'd again sawy I'm a doosh
Spiritmaster - I'm not CC but I keep fearing mobs into other mobs like a giant doosh
Sorc - I can only CC one target cause I'm overwhelmed by multitasking
Sorc - I LIKE NUKES nyerk on your tree
Glad - what means "NO AE YOU STUPID SON OF A nyerk"?
Glad - but I like swirly hits
Glad - so you don't want me to AE? what about now?
Assassin - I was trying to get behind him, I blaim the tank for not turning the mob
Assassin - I told you to turn the mob
Assassin - I teleported to the wrong mob again sorry
Chanter - I was soloing after you all died but then the pat came back so I had to run, brb to rez

/thread

char

ROFL.

"Cleric - I'm trying to save mana by healing at the last possible moment against high spiking elites"
"Glad - so you don't want me to AE? what about now?"

LOLOL.

So True. Those two especially you see like every other pug. And SM pets we have already accepted as the double edge for increased drop chances.

@ Topic.

I used to put my hot on the tank all the time, but have stopped. Smart clerics will roll their hot, and even though it's not hard to do, I would rather focus on dps in good groups like that. I will roll a hot on the cleric though when we get a big pull or something.

I would say Chanter has the most pivotal role when it comes to recovering. When a pull goes bad, both the Templar and Cleric are absorbed in their duties. Tank will be trying to hold as much agro as possible, and Cleric is spamming heals and inevitably tanking a mob as well. Chanter is free to cast heals or rez or whatever. First thing I do is hit Word of Prot, then hot and spam heals on Cleric>Tank>anyone else. Once the party is back to full I will do one full skill chain and heal the Cleric again.

The Sorc is the other pivotal role for wipe recovery, since they can also change the outcome with smart CC. No one person is to blame for a wipe though, it's a group effort for a reason.

[Gurubender]

Originally Posted by The XiL

Glad - so you don't want me to AE? what about now?

Funny thing is, had a Glad ask the group 3-4 times during an FT run if it was ok for him to AE, in the middle of a pull...like anybody is gonna waste time to answer him.

Fortunatly he had enough brains to take silence as a no, and i guess that he realised his AE was dangerous .

[Isabelle]

Originally Posted by Luuca

That said, I'm glad you think we think we are somehow superior to you based upon our assertion that we are not as good at healing as a cleric. Imperfect syllogisms FTW! GG

-------------------------

No. That was you missing the obvious sarcasm by about 100 yards.

The importance of your class is determined by the need of what your class bring and (in case of hybrids) how well can you compare in the different roles you do compared to pure classes.

Which is why a chanter, although nice to have, is quite an unimportant class.

When you focus 100% on damage. You are nowhere near a pure damage class (even when taking your buffs in consideration). When you purely heal, you are nowhere near a cleric in performance. Which is why you have to do everything. Not because you are doing anything important but because you would be UTTERLY useless if you didn't.

Your argument is that doing a lot of small petty things amount to a lot. It would hold true if you had an equivalence to the pure classes who do those very things but you don't. At all.

You guys are the weed cutters of Aion. You are awesome to cut the edges the big lawnmower missed. But nobody will ever do the full job with you guys. Your problem is that you refuse to accept it. NOBODY are saying chanters are bad. They are just saying to stop thinking you are a vital role in a group. You aren't. You're great to have but nobody is lining up for those things you all claim to be skilled in doing.

[Forbidden]

Originally Posted by The XiL

Assassin - I teleported to the wrong mob again sorry
Chanter - I was soloing after you all died but then the pat came back so I had to run, brb to rez

ROFL. My fiance and I play an assassin and a chanter, and this made me laugh so hard.

[Gurubender]

Originally Posted by Isabelle

No. That was you missing the obvious sarcasm by about 100 yards.

The importance of your class is determined by the need of what your class bring and (in case of hybrids) how well can you compare in the different roles you do compared to pure classes.

Which is why a chanter, although nice to have, is quite an unimportant class.

When you focus 100% on damage. You are nowhere near a pure damage class (even when taking your buffs in consideration). When you purely heal, you are nowhere near a cleric in performance. Which is why you have to do everything. Not because you are doing anything important but because you would be UTTERLY useless if you didn't.

Your argument is that doing a lot of small petty things amount to a lot. It would hold true if you had an equivalence to the pure classes who do those very things but you don't. At all.

You guys are the weed cutters of Aion. You are awesome to cut the edges the big lawnmower missed. But nobody will ever do the full job with you guys. Your problem is that you refuse to accept it. NOBODY are saying chanters are bad. They are just saying to stop thinking you are a vital role in a group. You aren't. You're great to have but nobody is lining up for those things you all claim to be skilled in doing.

Coming from a chanter - QFT, its in the sig.

Though you have to wonder why I kept seeing a group spam for hours for a chanter for Steel Rake the other day. We've got to be doing something right.

But i cant think of a single reason why a chanter would be considered vital.

[raeyne]

Originally Posted by The XiL

ten

Keep up your temps. That is it. Word of Life as soon as you hit lvl for it. If it takes more than word of life and your temps to save the cleric someone else screwed up. Unless you're the idiot who pulled too many mobs of course. Also blaim in all group situations falls in this order and this order only, regardless of all other circumstances:

Ranger - yeah I tabbed and pulled the whole dungeon again
Temp - when you say wait for that means pull right?
Cleric - I forgot to heal between spells
Cleric - I'm trying to save mana by healing at the last possible moment against high spiking elites
Cleric - afk again brb
Spiritmaster - my pet agro'd again sawy I'm a doosh
Spiritmaster - I'm not CC but I keep fearing mobs into other mobs like a giant doosh
Sorc - I can only CC one target cause I'm overwhelmed by multitasking
Sorc - I LIKE NUKES nyerk on your tree
Glad - what means "NO AE YOU STUPID SON OF A nyerk"?
Glad - but I like swirly hits
Glad - so you don't want me to AE? what about now?
Assassin - I was trying to get behind him, I blaim the tank for not turning the mob
Assassin - I told you to turn the mob
Assassin - I teleported to the wrong mob again sorry
Chanter - I was soloing after you all died but then the pat came back so I had to run, brb to rez

/thread

char

Must be funniest post i've seen from u lol

but yea, there are many reasons for a wipe, it's not always chanter's fault.. like when your templar pull that patrol in Steel Rake at a bad time which pulls like over 9000 more mobs (am exaggerating, it was more like 10) and then u realise that nothing u do will save your party, but anyway you still decided to hit word of life, word of protection, word of quickness, spam heal templar, then all the aggros are on you, and you are dead, and you wish that at least one will survive so your sacrifice won't be in vain, but you know 3 sec later thats just wishful thinking

[Forbidden]

Originally Posted by Isabelle

No. That was you missing the obvious sarcasm by about 100 yards.

The importance of your class is determined by the need of what your class bring and (in case of hybrids) how well can you compare in the different roles you do compared to pure classes.

Which is why a chanter, although nice to have, is quite an unimportant class.

When you focus 100% on damage. You are nowhere near a pure damage class (even when taking your buffs in consideration). When you purely heal, you are nowhere near a cleric in performance. Which is why you have to do everything. Not because you are doing anything important but because you would be UTTERLY useless if you didn't.

Your argument is that doing a lot of small petty things amount to a lot. It would hold true if you had an equivalence to the pure classes who do those very things but you don't. At all.

You guys are the weed cutters of Aion. You are awesome to cut the edges the big lawnmower missed. But nobody will ever do the full job with you guys. Your problem is that you refuse to accept it. NOBODY are saying chanters are bad. They are just saying to stop thinking you are a vital role in a group. You aren't. You're great to have but nobody is lining up for those things you all claim to be skilled in doing.

Serious business.

Aside from damage and healing, chanters have quite a few useful buffs that a lot of people would probably find essential in PvP situations. Enhancement Mantra (increases stun resist) and stilling word (a DP that binds up to 18 enemies for 15 seconds)....just to name a couple of my favourites. If you think of a Chanter as useless damage-wise, and healing-wise you're right, but that doesn't mean they are all around useless and that people don't need/want them in a party. Then again, you are probably too close-minded to allow a chanter to show you how useful they can be.

[Skodaj]

Originally Posted by Aayla

I would agree that the Templar has no idea what he is talking about. However one thing I have noticed, I have a Chanter and Cleric so I see both sides of this, the Chanter should be spamming his HoT on the Templar and Gladiator since it is more powerful than the Clerics. In many groups that I have played as my Cleric I have virtually never seen this. For the most part I have seen Chanters run to the from and do nothing more than try and tank. When I play as a Chanter I spam my HoT to aid the Cleric. I think in part Chanters are getting a negative rep because there are many that simply don't play the class correctly.

I used to do this, but I stopped. Why? Many Clerics, for some incomprehensible reason, decided that I was doing it because I thought they weren't good enough to heal by themselves, and that I was wasting DPS doing it. They get insulted and tell me to cut it out. If it was just a couple of them that do this I wouldn't care... but that's not the case.

[Isabelle]

Originally Posted by Forbidden

Then again, you are probably too close-minded to allow a chanter to show you how useful they can be.

You are the perfect example of how chanters ego prevents them from seeing reality. I said in my thread that chanters are "extremely useful yet not essential and that is what you all have problems admitting".

And yet you say "too close minded to see how useful chanters are".

I already admitted they are useful genius. Many times. It's just your ego being too hurt to see what I am saying. Read next time.

[Razir]

Originally Posted by Isabelle

You are the perfect example of how chanters ego prevents them from seeing reality. I said in my thread that chanters are "extremely useful yet not essential and that is what you all have problems admitting".

And yet you say "too close minded to see how useful chanters are".

I already admitted they are useful genius. Many times. It's just your ego being too hurt to see what I am saying. Read next time.

Useful but not essential.

I'm not 50 yet but I have read a bit of Dark Poeta S rank runs? Have you heard of it you terribad troll?

The classic triad and "core" group makeup is Templar Cleric Sorc. That is a very functional unit. You have two support classes (Chanter and SM) and three other dps classes (Glad, Sin, Ranger).

I believe any good group needs atleast Temp, Cleric, Sorc, and Chanter. Aion has 6 man teams instead of 5 specifically for a support class. You can even have groups without a Sorc, but that would just make things alot harder on the group, and almost require a Chanter for backup heals. It's all about group compisition....and a Chanter in a group results in the BEST compostition.

Back to Dark Poeta and the S rank runs. You gotta be pro to do those, and every group I've seen runs with Chanter, as well as usually a Glad and Sin. All three melee classes have access to alot of stuns and knockdowns, and synergy off each other with skills that proc off those. We also have two crucial haste buffs for melee and casting spells.

You are horribly misinformed, and a very obvious troll. Please go attention seek somewhere else.

[Isabelle]

Originally Posted by Razir

Useful but not essential.

Well hello there parakeet!

I believe any good group needs atleast Temp, Cleric, Sorc, and Chanter. Aion has 6 man teams instead of 5 specifically for a support class. You can even have groups without a Sorc, but that would just make things alot harder on the group, and almost require a Chanter for backup heals. It's all about group compisition....and a Chanter in a group results in the BEST compositition.

Which still does not make you essential. It makes you useful.

Back to Dark Poeta and the S rank runs. You gotta be pro to do those, and every group I've seen runs with Chanter, as well as usually a Glad and Sin. All three melee classes have access to alot of stuns and knockdowns, and synergy off each other with skills that proc off those. We also have two crucial haste buffs for melee and casting spells.

Which still does not make you essential. It makes you useful.

You are horribly misinformed, and a very obvious troll. Please go attention seek somewhere else.

I think it is quite ironic calling me misinformed when you still do not grasp the important difference between useful and essential. And I also find it ironic that your best counter argument is that a chanter is "extremely useful in ONE end game instance". If that isn't circumstantial I do not know what is.

I'll put it in a simpler way so you may have a chance to understand. And I'll even use your own example.

In a dark poeta group. Taking normally geared people for that part of the game. Can a group function easily without resorting to gimmicks if they don't have a cleric? A templar? A sorcerer? Chanter?

If you answered no to any of those class then they are essential. If you answer "well yes BUT..." then you are NOT essential. Chanters are not, at any part of the game essential. Very useful. But not essential by any stretch of the imagination. Now being a chanter, you are biased before you even consider the answer. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you realize I am not here to bash chanters. As I said twice already my first pick for a mouth breather class (pet name for dpsers) in my group after sorcerer is a chanter. Period. My only argument is that your class is not essential so please stop acting like it is.

[foozlesprite]

You know, I play a chanter but I still have to agree with Isabelle. Yeah, we make the group go smoother, but we don't excel in one category. We play whack-a-mole between dps, heals, tanking, and buffs, and nobody notices when a chanter is doing a good job because we're still not shining. I go back and forth between groups that are like OMG A CHANTER IS AWESOME I LUV UR BUFFS <3 <3 /DRYHUMP and groups that are like...'sorry, we already have/don't need a chanter.' We're NOT essential, but we're very nice to have.

And to the OP...it probably wasn't your fault, depending on your spec and what you were doing. I'm specced full support right now with heals, Word of Protection, and Word of Inspiration. If something goes wrong I'm always doing what I can...burning through mana to keep my temp buffs up, off-tanking a spare mob, spamming heals on the cleric to keep them alive (and popping Word of Quickness so all our heals are faster). I die more than I'd like because of the aggro from all of that, but it helps avoid group-ending wipes. I'd rather die a few times myself than fail to get things done.

[Razir]

@ Isabelle

I clearly stated temp cleric and sorc are the three main classes needed for dungeons and other pve type encounters. That is what you would call essential right? But I also said that I personally feel Chanters are essential for lvl 50 end game stuff. You can't finish with an S rank (perfect execution) without atleast temp cleric sorc chanter in your group.

Even if it is one encounter as you pointed out.....it would be THE encounter that separates the men from the boys. Everything below that is ezmode for the pros is it not?

I also mentioned that if your group doesn't have a sorc....that means you have to have a chanter. Not cause they provide CC or anything but because there will be more damage taken overall by the group which the cleric will not be able to handle on their own. In FT a Sorc is not essential are they? I have done FT numerous times with chant,glad,sin,ranger dps....running all physical dps mantras and using little to no CC.

Thats just pve. PvP is a whole different beast. I honestly have no real experience so I can't comment on PvP....but I know we have a few useful skills. We have a group wide damage shield. Aura's that increase stun resist by 50% and all magic resists. Buffs that inc hp/magic resists. Word spells that inc accuracy and magic resists, as well as strongest hot in the game. Lots of magic resist if you noticed, helpful for resisting spells and overcoming higher spell dmg from higher level elites in dungeons.

So conclusion......to properly execute a lvl 50 dungeon with perfection it is essential to have a templar to tank, cleric to heal, sorc to CC, and a Chanter to buff/backup. Then you need any good dps to kill fast (every other class). Any normal dungeon that is on a farm type status (liek FT) only essential classes are Templar and Cleric. Sorc is essential if there is CC required (FT doesn't need one as I pointed out).

[Eshestun]

Chanters have zero situational awareness. They think they're DPS when usually even the templar tank can outdps the chanter. They can't tell the difference between a pull we can handle and a pull we can't handle because they never have to pay attention to the pulls in the first place. The only time i've ever seen a chanter heal is when the cleric was already dead and the tank is screaming at 10% life for the chanter to heal.

You're all retarded. It's fact.