An answer to the typical grinding mmorpg

[Visarian]

First I will just list out what a typical grind is, and then I will show you what my idea is in paragraph form.

Typical Grind-
-thousands of boring mobs
-large time commitment
-hundreds of boring quest that only provide small portions of a the xp required to level
-reward usually doesn't justify the work put in until endgame
-gear becomes less useful as you level

My idea:To have a mmo where boss kills are the main means to leveling. For example in this game there might be around 200 bosses requiring more skills and higher "skill" level to kill(not a higher level(no l2)), however not to the point where a well organized and experienced pick up group cannot kill the boss. And whenever a boss is killed it drops items for each player on the team not just one or two of them, and allows each player to get a new skill which will be identical to one of the abilities of the boss.

No class specific items because class will be defined by the skills you acquire when a boss is defeated. So the main means of "leveling up" is by acquiring new and better gear as well as new skills. In the end players will be defined by the bosses they have killed, and not the amount of time they have put into the game.

All Bosses are accessible from the beginning of the game and all gear they drop will be equivalent; meaning that all gear dropped will have a direct effect on the skills that one acquires from a specific boss. For example: If Boss A gives a skill called "water gun" then the leggings armor it drops will increase the abilities of the "water gun" skill when they are both being used. Also lets say that each boss drops 10 pieces of armor and has 10 corresponding skills and when all 20 are used simultaneously the player gets a bonus

I'm sure the biggest problem with this game will be balancing the skills. meaning that with the numbers i proposed there will be around 2000 different skills.

PvP would be really sweet because it would be like a bunch of bosses fighting.

I know its brief and there are definite problems with the base explanation I gave but I think it is a good start and a possible solution the the typical grinding mmo. I would like if Aion were like this in some way.

[Ipmia]

and wher would be those bosses ? instancied places i assume to ovoide boss camping..

there is tons of flaws in you re ideas.

need LOT of bosses like a LOT , it would make a game where the usefull things would be all instancide taking away the persisatn world aspect of a mmorpg.

once all the bosses are mastered it wouldnt be different than a "build" but instead of going to a npc learn their skills those players would go kill a boss in a instancied place.

i m sure those ideas would find lot of ppl that enjoy it, but that would be wayy to different than what a mmorpg is supposed to be.. grind is part of this type of game.. there is no need ot redifine it.. if one doenst liek it then play something else period.

now i reckon that some games are more succefull at making tgis "grind" more fun than others.. that one of the thing s that make a mmorpg good or not tbh.

[SepiD]

Originally Posted by Ipmia

and wher would be those bosses ? instancied places i assume to ovoide boss camping..

there is tons of flaws in you re ideas.

need LOT of bosses like a LOT , it would make a game where the usefull things would be all instancide taking away the persisatn world aspect of a mmorpg.

once all the bosses are mastered it wouldnt be different than a "build" but instead of going to a npc learn their skills those players would go kill a boss in a instancied place.

i m sure those ideas would find lot of ppl that enjoy it, but that would be wayy to different than what a mmorpg is supposed to be.. grind is part of this type of game.. there is no need ot redifine it.. if one doenst liek it then play something else period.

now i reckon that some games are more succefull at making tgis "grind" more fun than others.. that one of the thing s that make a mmorpg good or not tbh.

No one has really defined what MMORPG should be...
So this idea could be used in a new MMORPG.
And no those don't have to be camped bosses if there is +200 boss.. are you gonna camp all of them? :F so no need for instances.

Myself would like to see game like Rakion. WELL MADE.
It's not MMORPG.. it's more like.. AFG? came up with that xD arena fighting game. Rakion is just so buggy that it creeps me :F

But in the end everyone would be the same with that system right?.. after u have killed all the bosses :S

[Fleiva]

Camping has pros and cons also, its a reliable reason to mass pvp, huge spawn windows are the boring part of it imho.

[mheehee]

Originally Posted by Visarian

First I will just list out what a typical grind is, and then I will show you what my idea is in paragraph form.

Typical Grind-
-thousands of boring mobs
-large time commitment
-hundreds of boring quest that only provide small portions of a the xp required to level
-reward usually doesn't justify the work put in until endgame
-gear becomes less useful as you level

My idea:To have a mmo where boss kills are the main means to leveling. For example in this game there might be around 200 bosses requiring more skills and higher "skill" level to kill(not a higher level(no l2)), however not to the point where a well organized and experienced pick up group cannot kill the boss. And whenever a boss is killed it drops items for each player on the team not just one or two of them, and allows each player to get a new skill which will be identical to one of the abilities of the boss.

No class specific items because class will be defined by the skills you acquire when a boss is defeated. So the main means of "leveling up" is by acquiring new and better gear as well as new skills. In the end players will be defined by the bosses they have killed, and not the amount of time they have put into the game.

All Bosses are accessible from the beginning of the game and all gear they drop will be equivalent; meaning that all gear dropped will have a direct effect on the skills that one acquires from a specific boss. For example: If Boss A gives a skill called "water gun" then the leggings armor it drops will increase the abilities of the "water gun" skill when they are both being used. Also lets say that each boss drops 10 pieces of armor and has 10 corresponding skills and when all 20 are used simultaneously the player gets a bonus

I'm sure the biggest problem with this game will be balancing the skills. meaning that with the numbers i proposed there will be around 2000 different skills.

PvP would be really sweet because it would be like a bunch of bosses fighting.

I know its brief and there are definite problems with the base explanation I gave but I think it is a good start and a possible solution the the typical grinding mmo. I would like if Aion were like this in some way.

Unless making each and every skill identical, or there will never be a "balanced state" between skills, there will always be skills that are better and skills that are not as good.

Better skills => Heavy camping on the boss that drops such skill => A. Everyone will get it if the boss has high spawn rate or B. Everyone will still get it, just takes longer due to boring waiting time for respawn and interference from other players.

Not as good skills => No one wants them => worthless mobs/locations

With your logic, there is no point of even designing a game, just create 200 identical room and put one boss in each, then make an arena so players can fight each other.

[Visarian]

Originally Posted by mheehee

Unless making each and every skill identical, or there will never be a "balanced state" between skills, there will always be skills that are better and skills that are not as good.

Better skills => Heavy camping on the boss that drops such skill => A. Everyone will get it if the boss has high spawn rate or B. Everyone will still get it, just takes longer due to boring waiting time for respawn and interference from other players.

Not as good skills => No one wants them => worthless mobs/locations

With your logic, there is no point of even designing a game, just create 200 identical room and put one boss in each, then make an arena so players can fight each other.

That is why there would be a need for highly defined skill sets. Different bosses would have different skill sets which could be used for different strategies in PvP and PvE. The players aquire those same skill sets by defeating the boss and then compliment them with the gear that drops off the boss. The real difficulty would lie in creating 200 different skill sets each with there own positive and negative effects, for example: skill and armor set that is set up for healing rather then doing damage. Its the same as a class system but more variety and allows for players to choose from a much larger range of abilities so they can truly define themselves in-game.

-As for the land scape in PvE I see huge open areas for each boss, and in order to get to the boss a party would have to fight through numerous obstacles that would be both fun and challenging. Maybe even sub bosses.
-For PvP the landscape would be completely open and is where the different instances for the bosses are located.

Also having player levels isn't out of the question, but the only way to gain these levels would be to defeat bosses; meaning, that lets just say in order to get to level 2 you would have to kill 10 different bosses which would each award the player with a certain amount of kill points that would after defeating ten of them be enough for the player to level.

Once again this is just an idea that I think is a could starting point to answer the question that is grinding.

[Ipmia]

Originally Posted by SepiD

No one has really defined what MMORPG should be...
So this idea could be used in a new MMORPG.
And no those don't have to be camped bosses if there is +200 boss.. are you gonna camp all of them? :F so no need for instances.

Myself would like to see game like Rakion. WELL MADE.
It's not MMORPG.. it's more like.. AFG? came up with that xD arena fighting game. Rakion is just so buggy that it creeps me :F

But in the end everyone would be the same with that system right?.. after u have killed all the bosses :S

really ? i guess that why all the AC, EQ, AO , DAOC, UO , L2 and the list goes on all have the same basics ... i figured that was what define a genre

soon you gona say that noone has defined a hack and slash and decide GW is one ?

[Visarian]

Originally Posted by Ipmia

really ? i guess that why all the AC, EQ, AO , DAOC, UO , L2 and the list goes on all have the same basics ... i figured that was what define a genre

soon you gona say that noone has defined a hack and slash and decide GW is one ?

What he is saying is that there is room for improvement on the current trends in mmo's, namely everything.

[Hellriser]

Originally Posted by Ipmia

really ? i guess that why all the AC, EQ, AO , DAOC, UO , L2 and the list goes on all have the same basics ... i figured that was what define a genre

soon you gona say that noone has defined a hack and slash and decide GW is one ?

I think he ment that the world of MMORPGs is not strictly defined or limited. The possibilities of gameplay are infinite and while some of the genres of MMORPGs are already defined and in use (AC, EQ, L2, etc.), new genres are yet to be discovered/invented. The MMORPG world has infinite options, the only thing that the developers have to take "as is" being the customer's needs, because not EVERY idea is appealing to the players. And here I can give such a long list with games that totally suck.

Edit: oh snap! Visarian beat me to it I agree with what he sais too, kinda' the same with my post.

[poorbuggers]

Originally Posted by Visarian

My idea:To have a mmo where boss kills are the main means to leveling. For example in this game there might be around 200 bosses requiring more skills and higher "skill" level to kill(not a higher level(no l2)), however not to the point where a well organized and experienced pick up group cannot kill the boss. And whenever a boss is killed it drops items for each player on the team not just one or two of them, and allows each player to get a new skill which will be identical to one of the abilities of the boss.

No class specific items because class will be defined by the skills you acquire when a boss is defeated. So the main means of "leveling up" is by acquiring new and better gear as well as new skills. In the end players will be defined by the bosses they have killed, and not the amount of time they have put into the game.

All Bosses are accessible from the beginning of the game and all gear they drop will be equivalent; meaning that all gear dropped will have a direct effect on the skills that one acquires from a specific boss. For example: If Boss A gives a skill called "water gun" then the leggings armor it drops will increase the abilities of the "water gun" skill when they are both being used. Also lets say that each boss drops 10 pieces of armor and has 10 corresponding skills and when all 20 are used simultaneously the player gets a bonus

I'm sure the biggest problem with this game will be balancing the skills. meaning that with the numbers i proposed there will be around 2000 different skills.

/fail

That means a level 1 could just pay to get helped by a level 100 and get all the uber skills.

[JunSakurada]

unfortunately its not as easy as the OP made it out to be, leveling is fine, grinding should just be replaced with shorter but vastly more difficult mob fights, I'm talking like super hard fights where your barely able to turn a win at higher lvls unless you have superior equipment. Increasing skill difficulty and faster exp is a lot better than creating a grind, the skill difficulty just has to be so great its able to keep people occupied for a long time.

[Necrosis]

Originally Posted by SepiD

No one has really defined what MMORPG should be...
So this idea could be used in a new MMORPG.

Just because you dont know what it means doesnt mean it's not defined. Massive is a term used to describe a minimum capacity of 1,000 concurrent users within the same persistant environment (server or cluster). This makes a game like Everquest a MMORPG and Diablo (the game you're idea is mimicing closest to) not.

As for your "answer", all you've done is substituted one form of grinding with another. How it's supposed relate to Aion is beyond me.

[Ipmia]

Originally Posted by Visarian

What he is saying is that there is room for improvement on the current trends in mmo's, namely everything.

my bad then if its what he meant.

On a side note you do realise why devs came to instancied dungeons right ? to ovoid the boss/named camping ala EQ.

and re you basicly asking for it again ^^. Not that i care.. i spent hours camping bosses/named mobs in EQ/AO

[Hellriser]

Originally Posted by poorbuggers

/fail

That means a level 1 could just pay to get helped by a level 100 and get all the uber skills.

That's a pretty easy to fix exploit. You set the minimum level of skill aquire (the bosses reward skills) at 5 levels under the level of the boss. No more Lv. 1 players getting ub3r skills.