MMO's are becoming too generic.

[Marchosias]

Originally Posted by Dank

FFXI is one of the only unique MMORPGs left I think, now do you understand why I said what I did earlier? You probably don't because you're so brainwashed and probably spend most of your day with your face glued to your computer screen playing some bland MMORPG. When you step out and look in, you can see that there isn't much unique about any MMORPG, at first it may seem exciting to you, but eventually you'll just be doing the same boring repetitive tasks you do in every MMORPG.

CoH and Tabula Rasa are both far different, or at least were when I played each (though this was brief), from the typical MMORPG. TR's combat system was just plain different. CoH was unique in that it wasn't focused around gear and the combat system had you fighting large groups of enemies by yourself. Neither game held me very long for completely different reasons, though (CoH, for example, was horridly repetitive, although that's true of every MMORPG... quests, as usual, lacked variation, adhering to the same three or four basic setups). From the sound of it, Earth and Beyond, too, was quite unique (apart, even from the obvious fact that it wasn't the same fantasy world). Regardless, the point is that there are unique games out there it's just that, at least for me, nobody has struck the right chord yet and made a really solid, generally entertaining (in a lasting way), but at the same time, unique game. It seems to be either/or in my experience.

I don't get where the brainwashing comment is directed at, either... People that like to feel like free-thinkers throw out the term "brainwashed" to people that disagree with them a lot. The problem here is that your post is labeled "to Calindor," who was the person that started this thread. Thus, it seems as though you're actually agreeing with his claim that MMORPGs are too generic. I can only conclude, then, that there is something in his last post that you're disagreeing with, but his last post is just talking a game he found unique, and his description of such makes it sound like it does, in fact, break the mold of traditional MMORPGs, so I fail to see the grounds for your "brainwashed" claim.

[Calindor]

Well aside from a month of WoW, I havent played a MMO for quite some time now, currently playing Diablo 2.

This thread (and that other one about immersion) are the reasons why. I've tried a few F2P, and other trials, but I find them all to be the same...which tbh I wouldnt really mind, had they come up with a key unique timesink feature (pvp maybe) that was fun...most F2P's main timesinks are just grinding/questing.

What he's talking about could be from a different thread or something, I dont know/remember.




Also TR seems really different/unique, and NCSoft. If it has a trial I may give it a shot, as I'm im in dire need of something to do, and I'll soon be bored of D2

[ImALittleMonKeY]

Originally Posted by Tareith

Casual, F2P, halfassed PVP, and Solo based....that's the making of almost every MMO these days.

Agree with you big time on the solo base. Ill use FFxi as an example here.
In that game you could solo to around 10 to get a feel for your class but then you HAD to group. you just had to. Nowadays everyone is against this because as yall have said everyone wants gimme gimme and casual play. Making people group in a game is not a bad thing. Its the reason why games like FFxi are so beautiful and brilliant. It really makes the players get to know one another and (one of my personal favorites is that it really discourages ignorance and spamming and all those bad things because if you get a rep as a bad person then you wont get groups and you wont get to play).
They also had skill chains and other group mechanics that really made the group have to communicate and work together to win, you had to group and when you were in a group the difficulty was challenging enough that you felt right being in a group working together to further yourself in the game. In FFxi I knew so many people because I was forced to group and get to know them.
It really brings the community together i think. Just my thoughts, wish theyd make another MMO thats heavily group based ^^

[Calindor]

I can assure you Earth and Beyond, was something unique (still yet to be copied) that lasted. One of my favourite parts was in a sense there was a lack of competition. There was no PvP, I found general exping to be fun, no matter what level, and there was no real incentive to go on and power grind your way up, because it was no different at the higher levels (sure you could do a few more things, have access to better raids and gear)...but I felt like I could just log on and have fun doing whatever the hell I wanted...compared to most MMO's I log in and feel like the only thing I can do is no-life my way up to the level cap.

Its apparant if you visit the old EnB fan sites, the EnB emulator, or just the youtube videos. Everwhere people trashing/boycotting EA, posting their love for the game, wanting it back after all this time...mainly just to continue through the ever changing storyline that was written and progressed by the game dev's as you went along....but the game wasnt growing very fast, and it stopped growing once Westwood was bought out, and eventually shut down prematurely.

[Marchosias]

Cal, if you find anything good let me know. I, too, am in pretty dire need of something to do, but no MMORPG out there sounds too enticing. I did some TR open beta, mostly just to try out the gameplay 'cause I wasn't really feeling the whole world they created... it wasn't my thing, and if I can't like the world I'm not going to be able to play the game. Aside from that, the game, while very unique, seemed to lack the kind of depth it would need to stand up to extended play. Again, though, this was just my early impression of the game... could be completely untrue.

As for FFXI, the group-based play is what turned me off to the game. I started playing it quite a while after it came out initially, and what I ran into was what seemed like elitism and fairly harsh discrimination against newer players. It took me longer to just find a group than the groups would ever last, since I didn't have a static or anything going, and trying to make my own never seemed to pan out. It just made the game really hard to play for someone that didn't want to invest large single blocks of time into the game... I really felt like I couldn't just pick it up and play for an hour. It seemed to me that if I wasn't playing for at least 2-3 hours I shouldn't even bother. That said, the grouping aspect of the game was, actually, a load of fun when I would finally manage to get a solid group going. I'd like a game where that's the fastest means of leveling, but only slightly so, to encourage people to do it, while making it possible to progress by yourself if you don't want to put a lot of time in, or if you don't want to rely on other people in your static to be on whenever you are...

[Calindor]

Will do, and whatever the hell is going on in this, whether its PvP, PvE or EXP...it looks freaking fun

YouTube - tabula rasa base battle amazing

edit: also why did I not read into this MMO before!...i can only hope they fixed the mistakes people complained about in beta now that it has been around for the better part of a year (i heard they added an auction house and fixed most bugs).

The combat mixes in some aspects from shooters to add some real time action elements to the game. It still is not an outright shooter and features sticky targeting and has dice rolling based on character stats underneath. Stickiness can be adjusted to fit the preference of the player. Some weapons like the shotgun don't use the sticky targeting.[11] In addition to a hit-miss system, Tabula Rasa adjusts the damage based on the situation. Real-time factors like weapon type, ammo type, stance, cover, and movement are taken into account. The enemies are reported to have AI that will try to take advantage of the terrain, their numbers, and will try to flank the players. All this mix of system based combat and realtime movement and physics system creates a gameplay which encourages the player to think tactically; i.e. to take cover behind a pillar to get some time to reload the weapon while the enemies are getting into position again.

Missions will be given out by NPCs but will not be static. What missions are available and even the access to the NPCs themselves are subject to how the battlefield is going. Some may be specific to control points that the player will need to reclaim from the Bane to gain access again. Missions are also to have multiple options to take. One example is destroying a dam to stop Bane forces that will also demolish a local village. A player can choose to just destroy or try to warn the village beforehand risking further advances by the Bane.[13] Referred to as "ethical parables" they are to make up about 20% of all missions.[14] The missions the player chooses to do and the choices made during them will change the way certain NPCs treat the player's character. Some missions will deliver the player's character to private instanced spaces. One design goal of the game is to use instanced spaces to create in-depth storytelling, with puzzles, traps, and NPCs, that would be more difficult in shared spaces. Some missions will be ethically challenging. The players will have to chose from different points of view and it can alter their future progress. "Ethical and moral dilemmas are something we definitely wanted to incorporate into the design of Tabula Rasa from the very start. The entire goal is to give you pause and allow you to think about the choices that they make in order to accomplish a mission."

sure as hell beats grinding or bringing back 10 wolf pelts.

AFS and Bane forces are in constant battle with NPC forces warring over control points and bases. Which side controls these areas greatly impacts the players. Losing one of these to the Bane means that the respawn hospital, waypoints, shops, NPCs access, and base defenses are lost and turned to the Bane's advantage.[19] Players are able to help NPC assaults to take over bases or defend ones under attack. Control of these points is meant to change back and forth commonly even without player involvement, although the current implementation rarely lets the Bane muster enough forces to invade a control point during peak player times. The Control Point System is one of the main gameplay features. Players that are fighting to defend or capture a CP get Prestige points which they can trade in for item-upgrades, experience boosters or a reset of either their attributes or their learned abilities. Prestige can also be earned by defeating bosses, looting rare items, getting the max XP multiplier and by completing special missions. Later in the game, Control points become more and more important to the players, as they are necessary to be either in Bane or AFS hands to accept or complete certain missions and they become the centerpoint of most of the later maps.[14]

So the world actually changes after you win/lose an event...just like Earth and Beyond was. If you lose a raid against enemies, and lose that territory, change the face of the universe/world based on what the players did in the game, its actual RPing. Also the missions are not static, they're randomly created based on whats happening in the server, could be due to actions the players did, or things revolving conflicts with the enemy...another feature EnB had.

Sounds like a fun PvE experience, not a game based on trying to satisfy everyone (something WoW could have been if it focused the PvE attention on the battle between horde/ally...but instead its just a pointless world with wolves everywhere, and some minigames to satisfy the PvP needs. The key word there being pointless. In almost all MMO's when I play, I feel like I have no actual purpose other than levelling up my character and getting gear, even L2 which has a world players sort of create..making their own factions, sieging for castles, creating politics, but you are still without purpose other than levelling, getting new gear and meeting your enemies out in the world...nothing really changes except the owner of castles, and winner of raid bosses.

When you have battles to plan, things/objectives to defend from intelligent enemies, and the world changes after you accomplish something, you may feel like you are fulfulling an actual purpose...It has smart enemies that use terrain to their advantage, have some sort of structure and objective, they arent just wolves evenly spread out. They plan attacks on objectives and forts the players own...I would imagine it to be really fun if they are doing it right (which could easily not be the case).

Already downloaded it yesterday, off work in an hour (check edit time of post), I'm anxious to try out the 3 day trial...Someone else should come give it a shot with me, took me only 30 minutes to download everything, I'm off tomorrow and the day after so now is my perfect time to try it out.

[Calindor]

I'm really enjoying it so far, extremely immersive...It feels like a halo style shooter or something.

You get missions out in the world that are like ones from any arcade shooter, halo, killzone, whatever...but you have to run to areas spread out across the whole land, while enemies and friendlies are grouping up everywhere and getting into skirmishes all over the place.

You go to a fort/town to get/turn in some quests and then the town gets ambushed by enemies and you cant help but go up in a tower and start shooting everything...a great way to get sidetracked, and the exp isnt bad, especially when defending something, because when you take on groups/get kill streaks you get exp multipliers.

The world doesnt change like I thought (like EnB)...its sort of just towns can be taken over like a fortress in some other game...its not like Earth and Beyond where you would raid near a planet or something, and if you lose that raid, the enemy NPC's would now have control over that sector/system, or atleast an increased presense...you may even lose a space station (similar example would be losing a town like southshore/tarren mill to the enemy faction in WoW).

The quests are like any MMO, however the style of combat makes even just trying to increase your efficiency fun. You can hold 5 weapons, get all kinds of unique power ups and skills. And the weapon styles are like EVE...where EMP kills shields/machines, projectile is good for everything, lasers are better on armour rather than shields, etc...Damage is affected by range, you can switch between aoe shotguns, machine guns for close range and blasting targets up, or rifles for longer ranger, more damage per shot...etc

The quests are all related to the war, they could be something like bring me back 10 of these from some creature because i need the chemicals in it to make some weapon or something...It could be go destroy these 5 enemy mortars...objectives you would have in a mission from medal of honor. And there are always enemy NPC's around, and you group up with other players and friendly NPC's and have mini battles along the way and at the spot for your quest...So far I'm enjoying them a lot more than the quests i've done in any other game, mainly just because its a whole new style for me, using guns, but all the quests are in the middle of a battle/war...its like the really fun quests in other games, but everywhere...you may just get one that says go defend this village, and waves of enemies will come in and you blow them to smithereens.



Its a hit or miss game, but I think if its a hit for someone they are gonna love it. I dont know much about end game yet, i know there is some PvP (arenas, duels and clan wars like l2...sounds interesting, 2 clans can wage war, anywhere they are in towns or not they can freely pvp each other)...and I see admin messages for high level out posts that are under attack, and requesting support from all players..so maybe that could be a more advanced system of the way the world changes, i havent gotten there yet.

I'd say about a 50% chance right now that I will buy it, but need to play it some more first...Its one of the few games where I've gotten that awesome/amazed noob feeling, it doesnt feel like anything else I've ever played. Only a few games have given me that feeling...L2, WoW and Earth and Beyond. All other games I've played (and there are many) just feelt like something else I've already done, there was nothing amazing about the noob levels, no suprises or anything. In TR when i was like lvl 5 I went to some fort to turn in a quest, all of a sudden this siren starts going off. I look behind the shielded door and all the enemies are attacking, theres friendly mechs (like you see in that video) and NPC's out front defending...all sorts of players appear on the map, and start taking cover in towers and at the top of walls firing at enemies..the enemies break through the door and are inside, you just go crazy shooting everything in sight...I was just like holy crap this is awesome.

</wall>

[Omegaforce]

Originally Posted by Ghorr

So go suck you're thumb.

WTH does that have to do with anything? Maybe after sucking his thumb he can mow the grass or I dont know...build a fence?

[Marchosias]

Cal, I don't work 'til Friday, so I think I'll download the trial and dink around with a bit...

[Calindor]

Sounds good, I'm on the US East server, my char is "Sikozu Shanu"...which I tried to model off of
from Farscape.

Choose your name carefully if you think you may end up playing, I was just making a random char for the trial, I didnt know that all your chars would be stuck with the same last name, and when I realized I was too lazy to reroll, trying to get the most out of the trial...I guess I'm going to have to reroll if I'm gonna play, cause I dont want the name Shanu on all my chars...if you type in chat it comes up as just your last name.

You can also make clones, you start off with 1, and you gain others from quests, I think there is 3 total. You can create a clone at anytime, the character will be the same level and class, with the same stats, but you can change gender/appearance..(but its still stuck with the same last name). The game also has class changes like L2, except no stupid quests to do them, just talk to the NPC trainer. They are at I think 5, 15 and 30 levels...you can clone just before you change classes, and try out the other classes available.

[Marchosias]

I probably should've waited your post, Cal, before making my char... I'm on USWest (Orion i think). I'm having trouble deciding if I want to go for Sniper or Grenadier (Sniper sounds cooler to me, but I'm having a lot of fun around level 10 just running around hitting **** with lightning and my shotgun... sniper seems like it would be less active). Do you know if characters stay when the trial ends or if you need to reroll? If they stay I'll start up on your server.

For the record, I'm keeping this out of PMs in case anyone else feels like joining us. I'm actually having a lot of fun so far.

Oh, and the cloning starts you out naked... kinda defeats I thought, but whatever.

[Calindor]

I'm pretty sure they stay when the trial ends, you just upgrade your account through PlayNC.
It doesnt really matter which server I guess...I just picked the East one because when I was starting it was the only one in heavy population, aside from the Euro one.



I got my strategy down pretty good now, I went Grenadier, then I'm going to go Guardian, because the staff and melee skills look killer. I have a physical rifle I use from far away, when mobs get close I swap to my laser machine gun and blast them up, or if theres multiple mobs i have a physical shot gun...for machines and shields I use an EMP machine gun.
Also grenadiers have a killer skill called Shrapnel Explosion or something, you just buy pieces of scrap metal, and you explode them sending shrapnel out AoE. Get 2 guys to run into a group of mobs with that and boom they're dead in an instant

I can spend hours just camping out at a fort and defending from enemy attacks...this game is awesome for me so far, however I'm still worried about the end-game. Will it be any different at higher levels, is there anything to do once you hit the cap? But I also heard some guy say he was playing since december and has a lvl 40 and 2 lvl 30's...so it seems like it takes a fair amount of time to get up there.