Skills/Abilities: Its quantity, not quality

[PZeplin]

Let me explain: I dont mean badly designed skills or imballanced skills.
I mean its extremely important (at least for me) to have a LARGE amount of different and unique skills to choose from, even if all of them dont have a very large impact.

I've played several different mmo's... and most of them have had very few skills to choose from, or at least that were viable to use. It gets boring mashing the same button over and over and over again. A big amount of different skills makes it a lot more interesting, and also opens up a lot more for skilled players to shine more, since you can customize your playstyle and not just mash the same buttons the same way as everyone else.

Take WoW for example (disregard if you hate or love it please): I play a mage... in a good 20 minutes battleground fight, I'll probably use around 15 abilities (taken as a rough idea of what abilities I'd *"normally" use, not some extreme situation).
Now... thats FUN. Other games I've played, my character dosn't even HAVE 15 different abilities, yet in WoW, those are just the 15 I choose to use in just 20 minutes of fighting (aka, not over the course of a day, with hugely different scenarios). That opens up for skilled players to actually show... skill. It also opens up for video's, a huge market for fansites (and by that, i mean publicity and "comnunity feeling", not money making).
And most importantly... it dosn't get boring.

I very much hope Aion will have a big amount of different skills to choose from, unique to each class, race and "skill tree". For me... its a win or fail thing for an mmo.


(*note: For the disbelievers, here is what I'd use: Fireball, Fireblast, Arcane Explosion, Blink, Sheep, Frost Nova, Counterspell, Blastwave, Dragons Breath, Combustion, Icelance, Invisbility, Spellsteal, Scorch, and Evocation.)

[Bahamuth]

In some way i have to agree with you,
for me the most important thing about skills is that you'll have to use them in a tactical order. Not just click this skill and that one and boom your target is dead, no i would like to use my skills strategically (sorry if spelled wrong).

WoW is a great example, but so is guild wars. You need to keep improving YOURSELF, not the skills you use. You get rewarded for what YOU DO, not for clicking some buttons.

But quality always comes on top, not quantity That's my opinion.

[Zio]

Acctualy, i dont like the bar of skill that GW is using right now... yes, each player can have his own playstile of habilities... but I do not like to have skills and not use them.

As i have seen in some skills, it seems they could be like Lineage 2, so maybe we will have a long variety of skills to use in Aion, i am just wondering how we will have acces to them, ¿lvling + buying them?

[Ipmia]

Originally Posted by PZeplin

Let me explain: I dont mean badly designed skills or imballanced skills.
I mean its extremely important (at least for me) to have a LARGE amount of different and unique skills to choose from, even if all of them dont have a very large impact.

I've played several different mmo's... and most of them have had very few skills to choose from, or at least that were viable to use. It gets boring mashing the same button over and over and over again. A big amount of different skills makes it a lot more interesting, and also opens up a lot more for skilled players to shine more, since you can customize your playstyle and not just mash the same buttons the same way as everyone else.

Take WoW for example (disregard if you hate or love it please): I play a mage... in a good 20 minutes battleground fight, I'll probably use around 15 abilities (taken as a rough idea of what abilities I'd *"normally" use, not some extreme situation).
Now... thats FUN. Other games I've played, my character dosn't even HAVE 15 different abilities, yet in WoW, those are just the 15 I choose to use in just 20 minutes of fighting (aka, not over the course of a day, with hugely different scenarios). That opens up for skilled players to actually show... skill. It also opens up for video's, a huge market for fansites (and by that, i mean publicity and "comnunity feeling", not money making).
And most importantly... it dosn't get boring.

I very much hope Aion will have a big amount of different skills to choose from, unique to each class, race and "skill tree". For me... its a win or fail thing for an mmo.


(*note: For the disbelievers, here is what I'd use: Fireball, Fireblast, Arcane Explosion, Blink, Sheep, Frost Nova, Counterspell, Blastwave, Dragons Breath, Combustion, Icelance, Invisbility, Spellsteal, Scorch, and Evocation.)

WoW have a nice skil tree system.. some flaws on it but overall good. its probelme doesnt come from that but more from the maingless pvp. Anyways still those skills were designed to match some balance.. its not QUANTITY like you seem to think its QUALITY. i dont give **** if i have 150 skill from wich i will never use like 130 of them because its silly ( my bad you might like to sheep.turtle etc )

for the record not all the classes of WoW have that many usefull skills

[PZeplin]

I should note that the header for this topic is mean to be somewhat provocative... I think it made it quite clear in my opening statement that I didn't want badly balanced skills or any such. What I meant (and said) was that I dont want just 1 skill that can do it all for me (that would be "quality"), but a lot of different skills that each do one different thing for me (that would be "quantity")

for the record not all the classes of WoW have that many usefull skills

Thats why we mages rule
Seriously though, I know. I believe the mage is one of the classes with the most skills. But even pvp-warriors or warlocks still rack up a good 5-10 abilities used in a 20 minute match (note that this is the skills that class use for pvp, they have a lot more different abilities if you count what they would use in PvE too)
I've played mmo's where I only had maybe... i dunno, 3-5 skills that would be worthwhile to use in PvP... maybe less. And all of them were just "ok, cooldown finished, push me and I do some damage" and a variant over that (like... smaller damage, smaller cooldown... bigger damage, longer cooldown! Short cooldown, big damage, but high mana cost! WOO!)




Zio, let me get this straight... you think its bad you have to many options? o.0 No one forces you to use skills you think are bad... and honestly, if you think 5-10-15 or so skills is to much to use, then I'm assuming your a PvE guy, because surely that would be a bare minimum for fun PvP/Skill.

[Zio]

No no ^^u

I like diversity in a game, and if that game gives me a lot of diversity in habilitis then better because i can choose to use them all, or only a few ones to make my own playstile.

Acctualy, i dont like the bar of skill that GW is using right now... yes, each player can have his own playstile of habilities... but I do not like to have skills and not use them.

What i have said of Gw is that i dont like to have a lot of skills that i am not able to use them when i want. Gw only gives 8 slot to the habilities, that means that you can only can use 8 of the all habilities you have, thats why i said i didnt like that system because you can gain acces to every hability in the game, but you must select only 8 to use, no more, thats what i didnt like ;p

As i have seen in some skills, it seems they could be like Lineage 2, so maybe we will have a long variety of skills to use in Aion, i am just wondering how we will have acces to them, ¿lvling + buying them?

Here i am only saying that as far i saw on the habilities of the game, they could be somehow like the L2, and if they are made in that way we could have a lot of variety of skills to use.

[Mark]

I like GW's system a lot. You have to plan ahead, scout it out, know what you're up against before you charge into the fray. You have to be cunning, saving your best skill for the perfect moment in which to use it. You have to use one skill to trigger another sometimes. It's like playing a huge game of Magic: The Gathering, without the problem of sucking if you can't afford the really expensive uber-cards (which was my problem back in eighth grade).

[TwilightAngel]

lol Well RFO I think a mage has way more then 15 skills to use and items...well not 15 diffrent items but there are some.

Originally Posted by Mark

I like GW's system a lot. You have to plan ahead, scout it out, know what you're up against before you charge into the fray. You have to be cunning, saving your best skill for the perfect moment in which to use it. You have to use one skill to trigger another sometimes. It's like playing a huge game of Magic: The Gathering, without the problem of sucking if you can't afford the really expensive uber-cards (which was my problem back in eighth grade).

Lol I know what you mean you have to have serten cards to unlock a realy good card that causes mass damg to the other player lol...well I was one that won alot of games do to mommy adn daddy niffty plastic card ^_^

[osric]

i likes skills, skills, and more skills!

well maybe not that many skills... but i agree with PZep on this one. i really did have a lot of fun playing WoW, and a good amount of that fun was playing around with all my fun skills now clearly we all know there must be a balance, and all the skills we get should be rather useful. every class will have a few skills that are only good in a certain situation, and are rarely used, but could be a lifesaver if used at the right time. a good mix of useful skills makes the game more fun because it's more than just "watch toon hit monster, use skill... wait for cooldown... use same skill". you get to initiate combat then "use skill, use skill, trigger a another skill use it, evaluate situation, use another skill". seems more action packed for me

[Zio]

Yep, thats true.

I usually play GW with a friend, and when we must face a boss whith we get killed many times, we always try new playstiles, other habilities and combinations and strategies to achieve our goal. I am not going to say the system they use is the worst, it has his advantages over other MMO because with it your character has your own playstile.

I dont say that system is the worst, but i dont like it at all Its just... Maybe it is an obsession of mine, but i always compare MMO with theyr own reality, the "reality" the game offers to the user to play with, if i have a character awith some habilities, i like to play with them all, maybe i wont use all of them at the end but they are a part of my character, the character with i have played along the game.

Basically i think: "¿My character learned an hability but its like he forgets it if i dont take it to the hability bar...? weird" The truth is that I am more of interpretive forums and games such D&D and Vampire with theyr dice than MMO, maybe its because of that

Well, going back to the subject in this thread, yes, i like to have a large amount of skills to choose instead of only 5 or 6. In that way you can choose to select only a few of them to personalize your char in the way you want fight, or learn to use all of them in each moment to give them a good use in a fight.

[plasma06]

i would have to agree with you,finally you said something constructive PZeplin

[Androc]

It's especially important if you're going to play a 'mage' character.

Anyone here ever played Maple Story? If you got a mage up to level 100000000, you would have... ten or so spells. But probably less.

[Tranquility]

I like GW system but i prefer it to be a mix of that and how things work in NWN ,choose a skillset - go out - find out it sucks - make a new skillbar - rest - game on!

[Dovie'andi]

Aye, I agree with alot that has been said here. Variety in your skills is a major contributor to how fun a game is, not only between classes, but between each individual playing style. Every warrior shouldn't be using the same skills, you should have freedom to tailor your abilities to your play style. Obviously trying to implement hundreds of skills, all balanced and viable, is a nightmare for developers, but it really does flesh out a game's combat system. Just like everybody's said, no one likes to hit the same skill buttons over and over again.

I have a friend who plays a Warlock on WoW, if I remember right, and whenever I watch him play, he vocalizes his strategies. He'd always say "3 4, 3 4." He had two abilities he used, basically. All he ever did during PvP was run up to someone, press 3 and 4 to cast his two Damage over Time spells, then run away. Run up, 3 4, run away. Every time, I ask myself 'How is that fun?' That's the kind of thing I'd hate to see happen to Aion. Nobody should just be pressing "3 4" over and over.

[PZeplin]

plasma06, I always say something constructive, you just might not agree with it

Dovie'andi, while what you say is true, I just have to add: a warlock can do that, but that wouldn't work in anything except mass-battles, where you can run back and hide. But it is true that a warlock is one of the classes with fewer abilities, but something so basic is down to playstyle... the warlock has 5 different pets, all with different abilities you can control... they have 3 different dots, 4 or so debuffs, and 4 or so direct damage spells... that still racks up to a lot of choices (though in this case just not used very often).

Oh, and sorry Zio, I havent actually played guildwards, so I missunderstood you. I agree, that system dosn't like very appealing to me.

And an important thing to remember, is that its not just different skills... its different skills doing different things! Not 15 differently named damage spells, on seperate cooldowns, that all just do different amount of damage. Make it AoE, debuffs, direct damage, magic damage, meelee damage, utility, selfbuffs, self "shields", teleportation, snares of different kinds, DoT's, stealth/invisibility, stuns/immobolize, etc etc, and different variants of all of them.

Most importantly, make it so that moving around, and actually controlling your character, is a good thing. Its horrible when your best strategy is just stand