We Ask the Questions (Part X)

[skimike]

Don't scrap ideas right out of the gate. It's not about shooting down ideas - it's about coming up with them. Anyone who has ever taken part in brainstorming activities knows you don't start poking holes in concepts at the drawing board. Get everyone's ideas on the table before discussing why it will or won't work. If devs listened to the naysayers, no game would ever get developed. I don't think the point of this exercise is to get every dirty little detail of a concept nailed down so as to make it completely unexploitable.

I would rather see a product where people are encouraged, but not forced, to help their fellow players. Whether they want to do so out of genuine interest or out of some self-motivated desire, the fact still remains that they're being helpful. An elective rewards system satisfies both the situation of a genuinely decent person helping out while encouraging those who could give a damn about anyone but themselves to maybe not be quite so self-centered. I think the devs are smart enough to counter any ways in which such a system can be abused. In the end, you wind up with a scenario where some people still only do their own thing, some good people now actually getting some recognition for their efforts who previously went under the radar because they weren't leet-sausage, and some people who were on the fence doing more to help their fellow players. I see it as only a positive situation.

[DoveSong]

I see it as giving something to those that don't truley deserve it, yet one more way to reward mediocrity, and punish extraordinary....

but yes I agree with you as I said..it'll make the server overall a more "well-behaved" place. That is positive I suppose....

I;d rather know who was a real jerk and who wasn't though, instead of just knowing that who is smart enough to pretend not to be one, and not know who were the truely nice people worth getting to know.

[Cynthe]

Yes the word 'scrap' was probably not the best choice of words in indsight. I still do think that a reputation system in this sense feels like a way to babysit the population.
If such a system were to exist I guess it might discourage people from being troublesome, but it would create a world of illusion, where the real great people would not care about this and not make much of an effort to get points and thus have a low score, while people who want the best reputation work real hard to rack up the points by behaving this way but actually don't really care about the people involved.

So again the best way to reward players that isn't related to leveling or fighting, is maybe discovery titles, special achievement titles/bonuses/cool item for amount of time played, amount of events attended that kind of thing. Bringing it to in game behavior spells trouble in my opinion, I could be totally wrong of course.

[skimike]

I disagree with the analysis that good people will simply fade into the shadows while others, less reputable, will climb to the top, nor do I see it as rewarding mediocrity. This isn't something that can be "farmed" unless you consider helping other people "farming", and only then if they actually somehow manage to force you to "vote" for them. Most doctors don't help people out of the goodness in their hearts; they do it because, at the end of the day, minus the malpractice insurance, it's a nice, big, fat paycheck. That doesn't make a doctor a bad person and it doesn't mean they shouldn't be rewarded for their efforts to help their patients. If nothing gets implemented, then it's the status quo, and I think the only people who like that idea are the people who don't want to see anyone but themselves being rewarded for anything. Given that it would be an elective system, if you really thought the person was just doing it to farm reputation, you're under no obligation to cast a ballot in their favor. So, in the end, what have you lost?

Without going too far down that familiar path of the anonymity of the Internet and the lack of real-world consequences for in-game actions tending to bring out the worst in people, I still believe a system that rewards good-natured people is a healthy comprimise. You can't impose laws in the chaotic environment of online gaming in the same fashion as in the real world, but you can reward good behavior instead of punishing the bad, thereby enticing more people to "play nice". It's a lure. Some people will take the bait. Some people won't. And some people who were already outgoing individuals might actually get some recognition they'd otherwise never receive. Rewarding the guy who helped guide some noobs through a treacherous canyon yet who's never been on a 12 hour raid to The Big Monster's Lair and doesn't have the Mighty Slayer+17 isn't rewarding mediocrity, it's giving credit where credit is due. And since it's elective...

I'm of the opinion that if you do something long enough, it starts to stick. If you're (figuratively, not you, personally ) only ever a jerk to people, that eventually becomes second nature and you get forever locked into that rythm. If people are enticed to help each other out and they do it long enough, they might just start helping each other of their own accord. I might, of course, be completely wrong in that thinking. It would make an interesting social experiment, however.

[Ecronyte]

I don't think the rep system should be scrapped. I know there has to be a way to make it at very least interesting, or serving of a purpose. I just don't think there is any way to impliment a rep system in any meaningful way.

If you give players the ability to recommend eachother, they will get friends, allies, strangers to give them votes/recs. There is no guarantee that good deeds are being rewarded, or in fact any deed at all. People will exchange them, give them away, buy them, sell them, etc.

There may be some way to set it up so that doing certain things earns you a good rep. But that brings up the issue of farming rep. And the question of if that is a good or bad thing.

I agree that the playerbase being more pleasant and helpful in general can't be a bad thing. But I guess I would rather have a system where each players true nature was acknowledged/commended, Instead of simply praising/rewarding their ability to act in a way that may be in exact opposite of their character.

[osric]

i suppose they only way to really make it work is to give rewards that have no tangible benefit whatsoever. so maybe a title... or just a "thank you" count in your profile. no gear, even just ornamental, no real world rewards, nothing. that way you'll just be known as helpful. that should keep most people from farming "thank you's", since in the end they don't really get anything from it.

[Dak Rey]

1. Only way I can really see this being done is with a player rep system, but as others have said, it would be exploited. I can imagine rich players actually paying off poorer players for +rep etc.

2. Keep rewards in-game, avoids a load of problems. Also, such rewards should be aesthetic, again as other have said, from giving unique items that change apperance, to (my favourite) awarding golden wings. ^^b

[Ecronyte]

Yeah whats odd is, even if we don't make it rewarding, it will most likely just be misused/abused anyway.

L2s rep system for example (certainly not very in depth or thought out) Each player has a few recommendations to give out each day. You can target someone and rec them. If you build up enough recs, your name starts to turn blue.

Most people use them as a thanks, or for a good deed. But for every fitting rec, there are thousands of recs that are given out to friends, as social greetings, as charity to those shouting for them, they are bought on some occasions (especially when it first came out). People log in alts on other accounts repeatedly to rec their main. RMT were some of the first to have blue names. Jerks have blue names, beggers have blue names, average joes have blue names. It has absolutely no meaning. The only thing a blue name indicates in L2 is that the person wanted a blue name.

[DoveSong]

Originally Posted by skimike

Most doctors don't help people out of the goodness in their hearts; they do it because, at the end of the day, minus the malpractice insurance, it's a nice, big, fat paycheck. .

I'd seriously disagree with that statment.....

but the rest of what you say make much sense, I think the point Cyth and I are trying to make is....as long as there is something to GAIN out of these acts...they aren't selfless acts anymore, it becomes a transaction not an act of kindness......I help you , you give me this (or I gain this). That is not helping the other person, it's helpping yourself.

[Zinrae]

Originally Posted by DoveSong

I'd seriously disagree with that statment.....

but the rest of what you say make much sense, I think the point Cyth and I are trying to make is....as long as there is something to GAIN out of these acts...they aren't selfless acts anymore, it becomes a transaction not an act of kindness......I help you , you give me this (or I gain this). That is not helping the other person, it's helpping yourself.

Ok, this may sound overly cynical, but anything you do is for some gain. Or else you wouldn't do it. If you are helping someone out, sure you don't get anything physically. But you do get mental satisfaction. The thing is that the definition of "gain" will vary from person to person depending on their values.

[DoveSong]

Good point Zinrae!

A very philosophical thought :P but true in many respects....

You must admit though, haivng someone help you who does it for the JOY of helping you...would most likley be a more pleasant experiance than having some hoboken help you out so he can get is "Angel badge" or whatever.

[Eagle-eye]

1.

A status would be good i think or some kind of ranking system.

2.

All goodies are welcome offcourse, but as i read in other posts it would be cool to get an option ingame to get items that have the same strenght as the others because it wouldn't be fair that people get too much advantage (being player of the month or whatever) But just look different, or have another color.

3.

Have a nice summer brake you guys and enjoy the vacation

[Eagle-eye]

Originally Posted by DoveSong

Good point Zinrae!

A very philosophical thought :P but true in many respects....

You must admit though, haivng someone help you who does it for the JOY of helping you...would most likley be a more pleasant experiance than having some hoboken help you out so he can get is "Angel badge" or whatever.

Absolutely true Dove,

I play another MMO now, and i help out as much people i help ingame and in guild just because i like it, not too get a status or get a name above my head (this is not even an option in the specific game)

I just like too help people out were i can. I think that it won't be different for me in Aion.

[NickyMunne]

I think they should have a " Help Aion Noobies" succeed thing.
Upon lvl 20 you have the choice to either keep playing the game as you were or become a Noobie Helper! youc an stop being anoobie helper anytime but the more time your a noobie helper and the more "noobies" you have the more rewards you will get. The rewards being dyes and threads COMPLETELY COSMETIC


the way it would work would be the following:


Oonce you reach lvl 20 if you pick noobie helper you get sent to this tutorial that teaches you key and basic things , mixed with the knowledge that you learnt reaching lvl 20 you are now armed with noobie helping knowledge.

You have a list of "trainees" once a trainee accept you as their helper the trainee will get a summoning spell which can request you for aid.
You can also teach them things talk to them in trainee chat room ingame and even give them a few items. As your trainees reach lvl 20 you will get star points, these add up and are usable as currency int he "Master's" shop.

the master's shop is a shop only for Noobie Helpers where gold is no good only star points. So youc an purchase awesome looking things with your points!



So help noobies and be cool and then look cool!

I think this will add another way to be unique and customize your looks, and also how frustrating is it when you start a new game and you spend like 5 hours trying to figure out how to do something!!? lol and no matter how much you shout nobody answers or cares lol

so this system will help noobies and also create a more friendly enviorment needed in mmorpgs, there is such competitive thing going on in mmorpgs and people lash out and call people noobs when they ask questions this is a nice way to make people be nice! and care! for a change

[Zinrae]

Hmmm interesting idea Nicky, I think a system like that could really help new players get into the game and make some friends. I think you need a different way for awarding those star points though, or some people will just go power level the newbies, which really doesn't help them in the long run.

I also think you would need to let the new players choose if they wanted a mentor, since some players like to figure things out for themselves.