Grinding

[Datippa]

mob damn it mob!! say it with me! jkin

[Afro Desiac]

Ugh, sorry....been playing too much Eve :P

[Endrance]

Calindor clearly played too much L2 with it's uberous monotonous quest-lines. And I disagree on the "I'm fine with monotonous grinding" thing.
Grinding <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Missions/Quests if those are even only half as good as offline RPG storylines. Of course if you set your basic reference at MMORPG type Quests and Missions like we all knew them for years I'd probably look at it the same way. But yea, DON'T WE ALL WANT THAT TO CHANGE AND DIDN'T NCSOFT TELL US THAT THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE GOING FOR CAPSLOCK SUCKS FFS!?!?
Well, if I realize that they basically failed once I start playing I'll quit faster than you can say "this game is based on sucking money out of you by addiction".

[birdman]

I'd actually prefer grinding than running around town talking to people and THEN grinding with some weak storyline. Like Endrance said, if NCSoft is able to put a new spin on the leveling system, I'm all for it. If not, I'd prefer straight grinding than weak quests.

[Otium]

Originally Posted by Calindor

side quests are just as boring as grinding when it takes a year to reach a lvl cap. Grinding isnt the problem imo, I mind smacking the same mobs for 3 hours no more/less than questing for 3 hours. At least smacking the mobs you dont have to run around, which is probably one of my least favourite parts of a game...but i still think it is essential, i dont like games with teleports and flight zones to everywhere.

That's probably because you've never experienced any other quest system besides L2's. I have to agree with you that, if the quests implemented in Aion will somehow be like the ones we find in Lineage, i'll prefer 10x more to grind normally. But you know, if you try WoW's system for example, the quests are really enjoyable and you get that feeling of job done at the end with cool rewards.

In those quest areas, sometimes you'll find people from the other faction which means that you'll PvP a lot against people doing the same quest. In L2, you basically have to walk like a dumb **** for several minutes and it surely becomes quite stupid and I have to agree with you there.

I hope NCsoft does the right thing, and adds some nice story lines to those quests.

[Calindor]

Originally Posted by Otium

That's probably because you've never experienced any other quest system besides L2's. I have to agree with you that, if the quests implemented in Aion will somehow be like the ones we find in Lineage, i'll prefer 10x more to grind normally. But you know, if you try WoW's system for example, the quests are really enjoyable and you get that feeling of job done at the end with cool rewards.

In those quest areas, sometimes you'll find people from the other faction which means that you'll PvP a lot against people doing the same quest. In L2, you basically have to walk like a dumb **** for several minutes and it surely becomes quite stupid and I have to agree with you there.

I hope NCsoft does the right thing, and adds some nice story lines to those quests.

actually, I have 2 lvl 60's on WoW, and it was the worst MMO ive ever played (not because of the pve aspect). I also had a lvl 150 and lvl 90 char in Earth and Beyond which was only a PvE game, no PvP at all (I would level 1000 chars in that game without getting bored), and a few lvl 20's in GW which is no accomplishment.

Maybe its just me, but i prefer hopping on vent with some clannies, and going to a spot to grind it out for hours while joking/talking with them, than running around towns for a few minutes, picking a quest that is basically grind these mobs until you get x amount of this item, return it, and repeat on a new quest/mobs. Both games basically come down to just smacking mobs, whether you do it on the same mob for and extended amount of time, or you do it on different mobs for short periods of time each. I just hate the big long gaps in the middle of WoW, having to run from towns, long flight times, having to run your way through agro mobs and make sure your party is all there and going in the right spot. All WoW does is put running a lot in the middle of grinding and call it casual. Thats not why WoW is casual, its because it takes little time to reach end game. I do not prefer levelling a char in L2 to end game over WoW, but I do prefer an hour of grinding in L2 to an hour of questing in WoW.



edit: its also very easy to find info about aion, the questing in Aion will be like WoW, everything is broken up into smaller quests that take 1 or so hours to accomplish, so casual people can log in for an hour and feel like theyve accomplished something (just like WoW), and so that they can build those quests up over time to get good items and stuff.

[Kentaro]

I've only read the first page of this thread because I'm busy at class, but you all do know that WoW was geared towards casual players hence why most players from FFXI ventured off to that game and the reason why there are guides that get you from 1-70 in a week not to mention the exp for 20-60 has been reduced and the quest exp from that level range has been increased.

Plain and simple WoW is for the casual players and not really for the hardcore players unless you cound raid, but even then its not that hard I've played wow for a few years about started playing it 3 months after release and I've played FFXI since day one of NA release I was juggling between both games and I can tell you that there is a major difference because its geared for different players.

Personally WoW is a horrible game and those who believe that its the best game out there thats find because your entitled to your own opinion, but my opinion is that WoW is a casual player friendly game they even stated that's is what they were aiming for upon release when it first came out.

WoW is a utter disappointment because I've played Warcaft and the storyline was rather enjoyable, but when it comes to WoW it doesn't even base its quests based on their own storyline which is rather odd along its just "Kill this and Kill that Now kill the higher level of these raptors and these tigers." similar to flyff with a whole bunch of other negatives that I don't feel like going into.

and Classes in WoW were broken and I mean broken its as if the blizzard staff picked a random class to favor and a random class to hate and nerfed that class beyond believe and buffed the other class to make 99% of the server roll that class or have a level 70 alt of that class which slowly becomes their main because to tell you the truth in most MMOs people are after having power and utter strength and pure pwnage.
___________________________________________

Now here is my input in this whole thread:

Now before you get mad at my post let me tell you that I've been gaming for my life I've tried all the P2P MMO's good or bad in order to have the personal experience rather than the reading experience and most F2P (Thats not important but some F2P are major grinders compared to some other F2P)

Personaly I'm for both grinding and questing, but honestly as mentioned before (Once again only read the first page) if you put two and two together how different is grinding and questing? when you grind you stay in one place farming mob after mob for exp this can be boring because your alone or this can be enjoyful because your with a group of people it may be friends or guildies or a good group.

same goes with questing you travel from place to place picking up a quest running all the way to the quest loction once or twice because you may aggro die have to start back from square 1 (which can become annoying if you have bad luck during that time.) after you arrive you have to find the mob that your quest asks for and then grind on them trying to obtain items from them and the drop rate may be low there for you stay there for a while or just have to kill a certain number of them and then travel all the way back to the quest giver or just teleport/warp back only if you have a item that allows that.

With this logic honestly how is grinding different from questing? they both waste a subtanceutal amount of time to acheive something or gain something fast based on how you come about it.

That's why I'm for both Grinding and Questing because it gives players two options of leveling when they get bored with one option or have a option to do until they find a group to quest with or grind with.

EDIT: I've basicly repeated what Calindor has typed because I've just read it, there for I'm basicly agreeing with him, but typing it in a different form.

[2aimless]

why do you play mmos if you feel pain while grinding, questing, grouping, soloing, crafting, swimming, flying, riding, pvping, rping , looking at sweet female char backs, getting gear, leveling, skilling, typing your password to join server, attacking, sieging, healing, buffing, casting, jumping, walking, running, using the mouse and the keyboard, wasting your time, ehmmm so on...

i hope you know what i mean =)

[Kentaro]

Originally Posted by 2aimless

why do you play mmos if you feel pain while grinding, questing, grouping, soloing, crafting, swimming, flying, riding, pvping, rping , looking at sweet female char backs, getting gear, leveling, skilling, typing your password to join server, attacking, sieging, healing, buffing, casting, jumping, walking, running, using the mouse and the keyboard, wasting your time, ehmmm so on...

i hope you know what i mean =)

Because Life is boring for the average Joe besides you do most of those in RL in a way >.<

<---- Nerd alert.

[Tokorumble]

Grinding is in no way fun, even with friends and mates and moms and pops and whoever else. Though interacting with these people in the game is surely fun, realizing that it will take you hours upon hours upon hours to gain just a single level will remind you that grinding is truly a waste of time.

Grinding simply must not be the main leveling way of a MMO nowadays. The casual gamers are what fuel Blizzards crazy budget, and WoWs millions of players. Imagine if leveling in WoW was like leveling in Runescape or Marshal Heroes (high-level) or Flyff? It would absolutely kill the number of subscribers, and WoW would never have reached its position of MMO God-dum.

To attract the casual gaming community, the games difficulty level must be tailored carefully, so as to not make it a 1 week 12 hour play to level 50, but not a 2 year lifestyle to 40 and hours to go to 50...

But to please the hardcore community (whom i am apart of) the games difficulty must not be watered-down to the point of a huge gap between 1 and 50. It's great to be high level with great looking, smexy armor, but still have a challenge when I go smash some Elyo brains. To have combat, that is both types of combat (PvP and PvE), continually challenging, you need to assist the "slower" crowd (i.e. 30% of casuals) in their leveling and gear attaining, and need to sort of slow the hardcore crowd from becoming evilwarlordcrazypshycofacepwning demons.

And AGAIN all of this must be balanced. If a person pours hours of their life into a game goes up against a person who plays 1 hour everyweekday, the person who spends more time in their game should obviously win. Well, to the hardcore crowd anyway. But if the person who has a job and family duties and social life is constantly being squished by the guys who are on summer vacation and have hours to dedicate to the game, said person is going to leave the game alone, even if they LOVED it, b/c they cant be afford the time to grind and grind and grind for that epic Sword or Staff.

It's a difficult question to answer, grinding that is. And time management.

And personally I'm not sure the creators (being from Korea anyhow) have this facet down. I really think this game is gonna be a grindfest, and that depresses me.

[Nyteraven]

Originally Posted by Tokorumble

Grinding is in no way fun, even with friends and mates and moms and pops and whoever else. Though interacting with these people in the game is surely fun, realizing that it will take you hours upon hours upon hours to gain just a single level will remind you that grinding is truly a waste of time.

Grinding simply must not be the main leveling way of a MMO nowadays. The casual gamers are what fuel Blizzards crazy budget, and WoWs millions of players. Imagine if leveling in WoW was like leveling in Runescape or Marshal Heroes (high-level) or Flyff? It would absolutely kill the number of subscribers, and WoW would never have reached its position of MMO God-dum.

To attract the casual gaming community, the games difficulty level must be tailored carefully, so as to not make it a 1 week 12 hour play to level 50, but not a 2 year lifestyle to 40 and hours to go to 50...

But to please the hardcore community (whom i am apart of) the games difficulty must not be watered-down to the point of a huge gap between 1 and 50. It's great to be high level with great looking, smexy armor, but still have a challenge when I go smash some Elyo brains. To have combat, that is both types of combat (PvP and PvE), continually challenging, you need to assist the "slower" crowd (i.e. 30% of casuals) in their leveling and gear attaining, and need to sort of slow the hardcore crowd from becoming evilwarlordcrazypshycofacepwning demons.

And AGAIN all of this must be balanced. If a person pours hours of their life into a game goes up against a person who plays 1 hour everyweekday, the person who spends more time in their game should obviously win. Well, to the hardcore crowd anyway. But if the person who has a job and family duties and social life is constantly being squished by the guys who are on summer vacation and have hours to dedicate to the game, said person is going to leave the game alone, even if they LOVED it, b/c they cant be afford the time to grind and grind and grind for that epic Sword or Staff.

It's a difficult question to answer, grinding that is. And time management.

And personally I'm not sure the creators (being from Korea anyhow) have this facet down. I really think this game is gonna be a grindfest, and that depresses me.

it was said that the time from 1-50 will take the average gamer about 1-2 months

[Fishy McFish]

Originally Posted by Nyteraven

it was said that the time from 1-50 will take the average gamer about 1-2 months

Thats a little too short for me to be honest. This game better have a huuuuuge amount of content end game if it's easy to reach 50 in 2 months just for your average gamer.

[Nyteraven]

Originally Posted by Fishy McFish

Thats a little too short for me to be honest. This game better have a huuuuuge amount of content end game if it's easy to reach 50 in 2 months just for your average gamer.

the thing is it was also said most of the PvP talents wil be gained around 40 so they need to make u hit 40 faster then like 5 months so the real pvp can start and the games true purpose can be filled y'kno

[Sovrath]

Originally Posted by TwilightAngel

erm if you can only play 1-4hrs a week then you or anyone shouldnt be playing a MMO unless its F2p bc thats just a waste of money........BTW its really not hard to get in 5-10hrs a week dont say bc somone can get 20+hrs a week that they dont have a life.......hell i know many ppl that have school and Work + homework but yet are abole to play more then 3hrs a day

Well, to be truthful, it's only a waste of money if the person paying it thinks it's a waste.

Playing a game many hours a day but not really enjoying it is as much a waste of money.

Logging in an hour per week and having the time of your life could be the best use of that small bit of money.

And yes, from where I come from, $15.00 per month is hardly any money at all. Especially when you take into account movies are about 9-10 dollars (depending where you live) and run anywhere from 90 minutes to 3 hours.

I would say playing a few hours a night and more on the weekends is dedicated. the 6+ (5+ even) per day people are more hardcore.

Casual would be a few hours per week, playing several hours per night and skipping a week, etc.

In any case, as far as grind goes, I don't mind grind if the game is designed for that grind. L2 grind is my perfect grind as I put on good music, sit back, have good coffee or a glass of beer and just relax. In that case it becomes a very zen experience.

The issue I think is when you have games that don't easily allow you to do other things or if the other things are just not to your liking.

It's hard with a game like Lineage 2 as the setting attracts all sorts of people but the game doesn't easily deliver to the entire demographic that would be interested. People who want pvp all the time might not want to raid or grind PvE. Role players or perhaps casual pvp players might not want to have pvp forced down their throat.

Face it, peopel are different. This is said ad nauseum everywhere in life yet for some reason people have trouble coping with the fact. And quite frankly, I'm not arrogant enough to say any one particular group is better than another.

What game companies need to do is to recognize the group they are going for and make the game a great game toward that group. And be clear about what group the game is for.

Otherwise you start getting people from the gaming spectrum who just can't let go of the fact that the game is not what "they" want. You get Roleplayers asking for housing and non pvp servers in games that are clearly made for pvp. You get PvP players who just can't accept the fact that if a game doesn't have PvP it won't be good.

In the end, if the game is designed well and reaches the correct demographic it will do well. Grind or no grind. Again with the L2 example, the hard grind in a game that should have a bit more pvp than it probably does can most likely be attributed to the fact that people don't want to lose xp. Sure, one can scoff at that notion but if you get someone who doesn't have the time or inclination to spend hours upon hours leveling (and thus being more competitive) and PvPing the grind is going to be an issue because they just can't PvP, and stay competitive and put in the time to grind.

Then you get the people who want games with no leveling of any sort. Just quest content. Well, that's great if everyone is of that mindset and doesn't mind roleplaying when the content is done, because there is no way the dev's are going to keep huge amounts of content coming in at the rate players go through it. They they get bored and do something else. Game companies can't spend the amount of time and money that they do to have people quite after a month.

In the end I think that any type of grind is fine as long as at some point the player doesn't feel like it becomes hopeless and that there is a reason to the grind that falls far beyond just getting more xp.

Let's face it,