Bots and Gold sellers

[Livvy]

The only way you can keep things like this from or at least reduce it is by setting up the game to where it makes buying gold not worth it. A big way to do that is by having binding equipment and having the best equipment in game only available by earning it through some means other than buying it.

QFT and end of debate . The only reason you have bots and goldsellers is because there is a demand for that gold being purchasable. Take away the demand and it ends or is a mere trickle . Banning, IP blocking, ingame monitoring etc. does not work because it does nothing about the demand side and only tackles the supply side of the issue .

[Calindor]

lol I dont care what list im on, I play games to have fun with my friends. And it has nothing to do with trust I even openly admitted it. I've never scammed anyone, ever...I've even given drops back to people who are enemies in l2...mainly because i hate that aspect of the game (you can drop gear when you die from a mob) and Im the kind of guy who gives money to newbies as long as they dont start a conversation with "pls money".

L2 has its many flaws, mainly with execution, while imo WoW is executed perfectly, but the design of the game is flawed....but when you get past all of that and reach its end-game and pvp...there is simply nothing else out there that compares (i'm hoping aion will reach that, but it probably wont because its RvR). I guess its something you have to experience and all L2 players will agree. You might say **** this game it sucks with all this RMT, exploting and grinding, but if you can handle that stuff, you get to experience the good aspects of L2 which make it worth it. Nothing in any game I've ever seen (except maybe EvE, but far less frequent) comes close to comparing pvp both mass and ganking and raiding all mixed in with the politics and drama (which have even caused some people to murder).

and livvy decreasing the supply has the same effect, shifting the equilibrium point/price of supply and demand up and therefore decreasing the demand, it basically does the same thing in the end as reducing the demand side...i have taken economics at university :P

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Calindor

and endrance i know what you're saying, but if its part of the game and people are doing it/i think its worth my money instead of the time/effort it would take me to get what i'm buying otherwise...i will do it. I would prefer it not there at all, but i'll take any advantages i can get, and however you look at it...if you can buy some ingame currency and get away with it 100%, then it is an advantage.

Regardless of what happened in L2, you're obviously talking about doing it in general. This quote directly offends any gamer who's looking for a fair game. You've showed that you neither have any ethical gamer principles, nor do you care about your comrades (what you've just mentioned is obviously nothing but a method of silencing your conscience).

There's a unbreakable gamer principle and unwritten rule. If you do break that rule, you fail as a competitive gamer, no matter what.
You can cheat in your single player games all you want, but as soon as it gets competitive, you're directly destroying the game. If that game has completely unbearable parts, but some goods sides you could avoid by buying ingame currency - anyone who's doing that would just be stupid by supporting the publisher and those asshole RMTs just for their own "fun" (I don't know... to me that's just being a noobish fool) and good.
And, of course, by no means is this an excuse for supporting RMTs or cheating.

By saying what you did, you've proved that you fall under that category, because you also have said that you would do it again in the future - not only if the game has unbearable parts (which as said, is still no excuse), but also just if there's an opportunity given and other people do it, too (that's such a dumb reason). And all that just to make you be on the top list of your server.
I'm not going to yell out the reason why you probably would do almost anything for being one of the best in a MMO, because I want to save myself the hassle of wannabe "I know everything/You can't know that, saying it loudly counts as direct insult" postings from several members.

Do whatever you wish to do, but do never again call yourself a fair competitive gamer in your current state, because currently you couldn't be further away from it.

[Livvy]

and livvy decreasing the supply has the same effect, shifting the equilibrium point/price of supply and demand up and therefore decreasing the demand, it basically does the same thing in the end as reducing the demand side...i have taken economics at university :P

You can never win that fight and it costs a lot of real cash to implement all those counter-measures.

[2aimless]

Originally Posted by Endrance

Do whatever you wish to do, but do never again call yourself a fair competitive gamer in your current state, because currently you couldn't be further away from it.

QFT. There are no "good cheaters" in multiplayer games.

[Glacius]

I essentially quit FFXI in 2004 because the only way you could "fairly" compete was to buy Gil. There was no other way. If the same things occur in Aion then I will make the same decision. It simply won't be worth my time to play a game that creates unfair advantages to a select group of people.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Glacius

I essentially quit FFXI in 2004 because the only way you could "fairly" compete was to buy Gil. There was no other way. If the same things occur in Aion then I will make the same decision. It simply won't be worth my time to play a game that creates unfair advantages to a select group of people.

LMAO!

Well, at least you quit and I hope you didn't actually do it.

[Calindor]

i never called myself a fair or competetive gamer. If RMT is a part of aion, me buying or refusing to buy isnt going to change anything. I've never even really considered the games i played to have getting gear/money as a competetive feat (except in end-game L2, because you really need a clan to get that gear, you cant buy it...or atleast not back when i played retail). Winning pvp's and raid bosses was the competition...not farming some money.

[2aimless]

Originally Posted by Calindor

i never called myself a fair or competetive gamer. If RMT is a part of aion, me buying or refusing to buy isnt going to change anything. I've never even really considered the games i played to have getting gear/money as a competetive feat (except in end-game L2, because you really need a clan to get that gear, you cant buy it...or atleast not back when i played retail). Winning pvp's and raid bosses was the competition...not farming some money.

gtfo.. stop playing those games then. Play something that takes skill without farming... And YOU change things by using rmt. If you want to play only PARTS of games then look for a game that consists only of that PART.

Why you have to break that simple rule? You want to "win" because of your better gear. Or want as good gear as the best guy that plays hard everyday to stay at the top. Or your just doing pvp alltough its expensive but you dont care because you can buy the ingamemoney you need...

RMT is NEVER a part of a game. This is just a lie. You are so happy having fun, while destroying it for hundreds. But you dont care. Everything that matters in your oppinion is you. Right?

If you want buy something then look for f2p games with casshops. Go play them. Be happy with that. And dont start playing Aion. Noone needs you. Noone wants you. I hope you are one of the NA players.

[gguus]

Originally Posted by Calindor

i never called myself a fair or competetive gamer. If RMT is a part of aion, me buying or refusing to buy isnt going to change anything. I've never even really considered the games i played to have getting gear/money as a competetive feat (except in end-game L2, because you really need a clan to get that gear, you cant buy it...or atleast not back when i played retail). Winning pvp's and raid bosses was the competition...not farming some money.

Exactly, it's about the pvp, not who spends most time killing the same mobs over and over again. Barely any of the top clans in L2 were legit, didn't hear a single soul about it except for their enemies, who often weren't legit either.

[Calindor]

haha 2aimless if you've read my post, even if those games (L2) have those problems, with those problems they are still better than anything out there, just because of the end game experience.

NOBODY on a L2 server has problems getting gear, if you are in a good clan, you will have gear. Whether it takes you 5 months or a year to lvl up it doesnt matter, you succeed in L2 by winning pvp's and raid bosses and making politics/drama with your enemy...it has nothing to do with smacking mobs and farming materials...anyone can do that stuff...the competition and skill level comes down to player vs player

[2aimless]

Originally Posted by Calindor

haha 2aimless if you've read my post, even if those games (L2) have those problems, with those problems they are still better than anything out there, just because of the end game experience.

NOBODY on a L2 server has problems getting gear, if you are in a good clan, you will have gear. Whether it takes you 5 months or a year to lvl up it doesnt matter, you succeed in L2 by winning pvp's and raid bosses and making politics/drama with your enemy...it has nothing to do with smacking mobs and farming materials...anyone can do that stuff...the competition and skill level comes down to player vs player

I don't care about any of your poor excuses... You just failed at playing a multiplayer game... Make your politics and make your drama and hopefully you get banned or bored or whatever.

You posted somewhere that you will use ANY advantage to be at the top when playing aion. Now that showed up that even without that "best endgame drama" you would use RMT and Bots. I'm to lazy to look for it because you convinced me that your a fool

[Calindor]

meh call me a failure, but on the contrary on my L2 server (which has no RMT, bots or ebaying), the server manages to hit 3000+ players online everyday for the past year, my clan has owned the best castles (sometimes 2 at once), we've managed to get a majority of heroes a few times, and myself got hero on a farming class (duelist). My alliance between 3 clans has the 1st or second most end game armor sets of any ally on the server, my clan in specific has the second most, behind one enemy that manages to have the same members from 1 year ago still hitting 90% activity on a daily basis (no-lifers extreme). Between 120 people in our alliance, we have about 5 end game heavy sets, 10 light armor and 3 or 4 robe...we have about 5 or 6 full sets of boss jewelry (epic jewels that drop from each epic boss (have spawn times of 5, 8 and 11 days, and every time they spawn you can expect a mass pvp of 100+ people fighting to kill the raid boss. So that gives you an idea of the competition...on a server with over 50 000 active people, hitting almost 4000 people online each day, there are maybe 2 or 3 dozen end game sets...so you can see why RMT would be impossible for them, there are only a handfull of people who own them to themselves, most are owned by clans...and its all gotten without rmt/botting. Say what you want, i plan on owning aion either way . My l2 clan is all people who have played retail/other servers before buying/selling on ebay, running several accounts on bots at the same time...now all playing on a server where that isnt possible...exping, smaking mobs and getting gear means nothing and makes you no more or less skilled.

[Shentar]

I think Square-Enix does this right with FFXI. They simply perform mass bannings/temporary suspensions of people who have violated the terms of service. They don't just ban those selling gold, they ban those buying it. In February they banned 5600 accounts and temporarily suspended 1270 accounts. 1210 of the accounts were because of RMT in gil and item sales, though there were other categories involving RMT that lead to bannings (see the link below for more detailed info). While this certainly doesn't put an end to RMT and botting, it reduces it. You'll have people more hesitant to purchase gold, and you'd never see the level of problems in FFXI that you did in WoW for a while. I remember having to download an add-on that filtered my incoming tells so I wouldn't recieve gold seller ads every 3 minutes. You can't argue that gold selling doesn't affect those who choose not to buy gold when something like that becomes the case.

Source for the above numbers:
Accounts Banned (and other info) Feb whatever! - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

Originally Posted by Calindor

i never called myself a fair or competetive gamer. If RMT is a part of aion, me buying or refusing to buy isnt going to change anything. I've never even really considered the games i played to have getting gear/money as a competetive feat (except in end-game L2, because you really need a clan to get that gear, you cant buy it...or atleast not back when i played retail). Winning pvp's and raid bosses was the competition...not farming some money.

Well that's just the thing. If there is anything in the Terms of Service/User Agreement against RMT, which nearly every MMO has, it isn't a part of the game. It is a bannable offense that you have made an agreement with the company (in this case NCSoft) not to partake in. I honestly hope Aion GMs take an active role in enforcing the ToS/UA.

[Calindor]

I hope they do so too, but if they dont and people are RMTing left, right and centre, then so will I.

Find me anyone on a L2 retail server who is in a factor clan that wins sieges/raid bosses, or gets hero that doesnt Bot, RMT and multiclient/2box....I would be suprised to see more than a few ...and the key word is FACTOR clan...like 70% of L2 players never make it to the top, never experience the joy end game pvp and drama can be when you are in a good clan..the only part of the game they see is the endless grind and exploiting...which is a shame