Who actually enjoys grinding?

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Zanaionic

people are comparing aion to FFX1's when it comes to grinding.

from what im hearing you couldnt do anything w/o a group of people. i personally find this a stupid and non ideal system.

i want there to be just as much Solo play as their is Group play. W/ a guild you can have your group and solo fun all at the same time.

MMORPGs are there to make people play together. Many players seriously have to understand this. It should be possible to solo and grind less efficient than without a party (grind on lower level mobs for less EXP), but for example solo gather stuff for your craft. But mainly the game should force you to actually rely on others if it comes to combat.
When I read what you're saying, many boring and monotonous MMORPGs come to mind, where Party play offers almost no advantage or even disadvantages compared to soloing. This is NOT what Massive Multiplayer Gaming means and is all about. Sure, there are alot of people running around, but often the only thing which connects them to each other is selling and buying goods or doing quests and missions (which is mostly about 1-5% of the actual game).
Developers are supposed to make it easier than in FFXI to find a group (maybe 3 people should be enough instead of 6 to gather EXP efficiently), because that's one of the only things the FFXI grind failed about. This does by no means mean that MMORPGs should focus more on solo play.

This seriously makes me think that most people who want MMORPGs to be based on solo playing are just afraid or too lazy to ask other people to play together with them.

[Cynthe]

No, multiplayer has a different meaning to different people. You have to seriously understand they are disadvantages to some people to be forced to form a party, unless they make it so that grinding is a non issue so that you don't have to group for 3 hours minimum to gain a level or a certain goal, ALL the time.

A lot of people who like to group and often do, don't seem to see that soloers are not people who want to do the whole game by themselves, they are people who have a limited amount of time per session and can only do big groups, raids, big dungeons or sieges once in a while. But they still would like to see some of the content when they can. This is why both solo quests and even a few dungeons should be friendly to such players. This doesn't have to mean that the devs will take away from grouping and meaningful party play... ^^

[Acyd]

I dont mind grinding on my own, when mobs drop decent stuff. Sure im getting XP, but i would like to be getting money and things to sell as well. Also if there is a rare chance im gonna get an awesome rare drop, Im more prone to grinding.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Cynthe

No, multiplayer has a different meaning to different people. You have to seriously understand they are disadvantages to some people to be forced to form a party, unless they make it so that grinding is a non issue so that you don't have to group for 3 hours minimum to gain a level or a certain goal, ALL the time.

First of all. This post includes no single argument against the actual definition of multiplayer gaming in a MMORPG. If people see a different meaning in MMORPGs than playing together with other people mainly, then those people simply prefered the wrong genre.

A lot of people who like to group and often do, don't seem to see that soloers are not people who want to do the whole game by themselves, they are people who have a limited amount of time per session and can only do big groups, raids, big dungeons or sieges once in a while. But they still would like to see some of the content when they can. This is why both solo quests and even a few dungeons should be friendly to such players. This doesn't have to mean that the devs will take away from grouping and meaningful party play... ^^

I have never said anything against this. That's why I said "this is where FFXI's grinding failed". FFXI wasn't suited for the gamers you described for stated reasons. That's what has to be made easier and faster to do. And I have also said that solo grinding should be possible, but should also be some bits less efficient. Other than that, the direction where your post is going worries me.

[Acyd]

I hated waiting around for hours on end in FFXI for a group. Wasnt a huge problem in the beggining, but in the end levels, i was waiting for a while. I hope there is an option for solo exp gain. Just make it faster with a group, so people are still inclined to group.

[Jjay]

As a former FFXI player, i am all to use to the "Grind".... it kinda grows on ya after awhile, and its not so bad... as long as there is a goal at the end of the grind, i.e. Merits, Gaining a lv., items

I do enjoy solo play though, lets you move at your own pace, dont have to worry about a group, and if someone is AFK or w/e

[Jsef64]

I have no problem with grinding so long as it is more quest orientated than just on my own steam to gain gold/exp.
I mean to say is that if a quest says 'kill 20 (x)' then I am happy...especially if it has an ounce of lore driving it Then ofc you have the satisfaction of quest rewards and quest exp...

[Katsuro]

I hate grinding, unless your in an amazingly good spot, and have good multi hit skills.

[Cynthe]

Originally Posted by Endrance

Other than that, the direction where your post is going worries me.

There's nothing to be worried, you just said you mostly agree with me, and I mostly agree with you except for a few little things. I'm not only just replying to you, but also to a sentiment that seems to be felt in the ongoing solo vs group debate. There doesn't have to be a debate just enough content for both styles. Someone said this earlier too.

I don't really agree with being less efficient soloing either, just to encourage grouping... Seems like a cop-out, there should be other reasons to make people want to group, like better loot, cutscenes and just the simple fact that it's more fun to hang with other peeps. ^^

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Cynthe

I don't really agree with being less efficient soloing either, just to encourage grouping... Seems like a cop-out, there should be other reasons to make people want to group, like better loot, cutscenes and just the simple fact that it's more fun to hang with other peeps. ^^

I've been thinking about this as well, but I just can't find an effective option to encourage people to play together.
Although I must also say that if people were forced to group and the combat was as complex as it was in FFXI, the EXP bot problem would be pretty much completely solved, wouldn't it? Grouping is also way more fun than solo play in general, as it is about almost anything in real life, too. People who disagree with this are those with the problem, not people who are actually able to enjoy grouping. That's what I believe.
But as I said, I'm not entirely against soloing, although I'm against permanent possible solo in MMORPGs (excluding missions and hangin with others). I simply don't want this to be too easily possible.
At least, don't make soloing more efficient than grouping, cause I just cannot enjoy the primitive permanent monotonous solo grind. And you must also admit that I am on the minor side, as most MMORPGs support the solo grind way more than actual grouping, so I have a reason to say something against it.

[Acyd]

All i hope is that you gotta group enough. So people get to know each other. I found out quick in FFXI what people were good people and who were the asses. Good healers vs bad ones. ect ect. Gets you to know the community.

[Mad Midget]

I love to grind. When I think of a MMO, I think of grinding. An MMO that does not have grinding, does not interest me.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Acyd

All i hope is that you gotta group enough. So people get to know each other. I found out quick in FFXI what people were good people and who were the asses. Good healers vs bad ones. ect ect. Gets you to know the community.

Which is the main reason why MMORPGs are MMORPGs.

[Acyd]

When i tried to play Oblivion, i got bored sooooo fast. It feels like a MMORPG world, with no players in it! Got bored reaaaaal qucik. I need people in a game, and i really enjoy grouping.

[Disrupter]

Grinding is more than just levelling. Grinds can include reputation levels with differing factions, farming money, levelling, running the same dungeon repeatedly for gear, so on and so forth. Essentially grinding is just repeating the same action over and over. Grinding is what keeps people paying their monthly subscription fees. In a MMO your grind isn't done simply because you are max level, unless of course, you're done playing.

Its all fine and good to say 'I hope there's no grinding!' but it is what keeps people playing these games month after month. It serves a valid purpose. If there were to be no grinding whatsoever, the developers would have to continuously pop out fresh content on a WEEKLY basis, and thats nowhere near realistic.

Its a necessary evil.