Who actually enjoys grinding?

[Katsuro]

Originally Posted by Apothikus

Oh no you di'int * ****s shotgun * Let me repeat what I said to someone before, what a man can do and what a man can't do.


lol filter

How do they say it? Walk up and limp away my friend, If I allow you to keep your legs that is ^.~

[Otium]

Originally Posted by Frein

Of course WoW has the holy grail of leveling, questing, which I actually do not like. I completely fail to see how masking the grind behind "unique" quests makes the process any more interesting. It's still a solo activity and solo just plain sucks in MMOs. These games don't have the gameplay to compete with actual single player games when playing alone, so it becomes really monotonous and repetitive, quests or no quests.

It's true that MMOs are supposed to be played in group. However, it can be hard to find an efficient group. Sometimes, the parties you get are so bad that you have no other choices but to solo. If the game gives you more ways to lvl up than just killing random mobs, i'm cool with that. Quests can be interesting if the system is well done. Earning special items through those quests makes them even more appealing. If you still prefer to solo, then it's all up to you, but keep in mind that there are people who like quests and not everyone find it monotonous and repetitive.

[Katsuro]

Originally Posted by Otium

It's true that MMOs are supposed to be played in group. However, it can be hard to find an efficient group. Sometimes, the parties you get are so bad that you have no other choices but to solo. If the game gives you more ways to lvl up than just killing random mobs, i'm cool with that. Quests can be interesting if the system is well done. Earning special items through those quests makes them even more appealing. If you still prefer to solo, then it's all up to you, but keep in mind that there are people who like quests and not everyone find it monotonous and repetitive.

I'm still dead set on the fact that PVP is the best way for an MMO to have for a leveling system, its never boring, its always insanely fun, and it doesn't take an hour and a half...I'm cool with large mobs of VERY DIFFICULT quest monsters, or Bosses of all shapens and or sizes, and maybe some lingering monsters that have good drop and exp rates, but other than that PVP is the way to go, thers 2000000 players around you and your killing a mushroom monster why?.... >.>

[Otium]

There must be a balance between PvP and PvE. Trust me, i've been in some private servers where you only had to focus on PvPing and after a week you just get bored. It's all about working in order to get the gear you need to PvP, and that way, you'll give more value to your character and to your gameplay.

[Frein]

Originally Posted by Katsuro

I'm still dead set on the fact that PVP is the best way for an MMO to have for a leveling system, its never boring, its always insanely fun, and it doesn't take an hour and a half...I'm cool with large mobs of VERY DIFFICULT quest monsters, or Bosses of all shapens and or sizes, and maybe some lingering monsters that have good drop and exp rates, but other than that PVP is the way to go, thers 2000000 players around you and your killing a mushroom monster why?.... >.>

WAR offers exp from PVP and it is an interesting solution. PVP is almost guaranteed to remain interesting much longer than PVE based grinding, at least if it is done solo, again, quests or no quests.

Originally Posted by Otium

Quests can be interesting if the system is well done. Earning special items through those quests makes them even more appealing. If you still prefer to solo, then it's all up to you, but keep in mind that there are people who like quests and not everyone find it monotonous and repetitive.

You're probably right that questing solo can be somewhat more interesting than grinding solo, but in WoW I was so quickly fed up with the whole leveling process that I could almost vomit just thinking about doing another quest by the time my second character was L57. The same notion then repeated about a year later when I had to go from 60-70 in TBC. Needless to say, this never happened in games where exp is gained in groups. That's just me, though.

[Katsuro]

Originally Posted by Otium

There must be a balance between PvP and PvE. Trust me, i've been in some private servers where you only had to focus on PvPing and after a week you just get bored. It's all about working in order to get the gear you need to PvP, and that way, you'll give more value to your character and to your gameplay.

I've done the same, and yes your correct, some work has to go into your character, but theres just something not right about blowing hundreds of monsters away just to gain a measly 2% its stupid as hell, a balance and a comprise can be met, It may not be in this game, but whatever company decides to trial and error it to perfection will truly revolutionize the genre, for now grinding is suffer able...for now....

[Otium]

Originally Posted by Katsuro

I've done the same, and yes your correct, some work has to go into your character, but theres just something not right about blowing hundreds of monsters away just to gain a measly 2% its stupid as hell, a balance and a comprise can be met, It may not be in this game, but whatever company decides to trial and error it to perfection will truly revolutionize the genre, for now grinding is suffer able...for now....

But that's why NCsoft came with the whole concept of PvPvE. You'll be killing people while exping in your favorite areas. Not to mention the Abyss...

[Acyd]

Im excited about the whole PVPVE system. Should make things interesting.

[Shilenne]

They're trying to find the perfect balance for both people that prefer PVE and PVP, people that prefer ONLY PVP, and prefer that prefer PVE. I don't understand why people would want a game only to dedicate to one of these areas instead of being able to suit the taste of everything. It's like saying this world should only have the food I want to eat and whatever I don't like should just not exist, that's not how things work and it's definitely not how things should be working.

Not to mention this Beta is mainly to test servers and new zones, they're not quite done with anything really yet so it's still too early to argue or even worry about what it would be like. Sure we can guess, but there's no need to frighten ourselves over imaginations are there?

[Apothikus]

Its agreed then Katsuro. We are sworn enemies! or friends.. idk depends how everything turns out and if you are good

[BahamutKaiser]

Well, without having time to read all the additional post's I'll add this. Everyone has their tolerance for grind, and some people like the idea that their rewards are harbored behind heavy effort, but nobody accepts grind as a feature of it's own, but as something that has to be justified, because at it's core, it is a flaw.

As I'm sure I've said before, it is even harder for seasoned RPG and especially MMO players to have a objective perspective on grind, since their acceptance and participation in it for, not hundreds of hours, not thousands of hours, but months in hours of gameplay, have hardened their resolved to achieve their goals. But that doesn't justify grind, and it doesn't remedy it's inherit flaw, or the fact that casual and inexperienced gamers cannot accept that amount of monotany.

Also, I hear alot of, "grind is OK if...", or "I do not mind grind if it is fun"? It is not grind if it is fun, now there are varied perception of what is fun, and some are easier to entertain than others, but in general, a game must provide a challenge, interaction, strategy and intellegent thought, and often benifits from excitement, which is most easily stimulated by activity, action, and awe. There are plenty of games which are fun to play, and have unlimited replay value, without any character development. Learning from that, a game which is expected to provide a supossedly permenant gameplay value should learn to utilize this type of gameplay in order to make the gameplay itself a feature to enjoy and pursue.

Personally, I am not against unlimited character development. As long as it fits within the confines of the game, and the competative restraints of the game, it is perfectly acceptable. Grind however is not. The place where character development and grind meet is where MMOs in particular are most vulnerable to fail. For something that is so essential to the very core of the MMO gameplay experience, nothing short of flawlessness is required. You can't please everyone, but if your creative, and not affraid to innovate or experiment beyond the simple experiences of the masses, you can at least create something far more versatile, lasting, and enjoyable to a much greater majority of players, instead of secluded interests, or dated followings.

And to be completely honest, I don't know where people get the nerve to contribute their personal interests as a thesis for others, wile they do not understand or recognize the importance of developing a game for people, not themselves. If you cannot see past your own interests, and develope features beyond your secluded interests, rather than consider the best experience for the most people possible, than you really have no business saying anything other than you like such and so, for such and so reason, and not an ounce of expression as to how others should accept it as well.

It is in a developers direct interest to make a game that is enjoyable by the majority of people, it doesn't matter how you glorify your experience, or what you think of your skills, because no matter how good or important you think you are, the developers make money based on sales, and sales are driven by satisfying a greater number of players. So if you truely wish to validate your values and interest, you must do so by proving that they are best for the majority, or be creative enough to design a function which will satisfy alternate interests, or change your interest to fit the more reasonable conclusion. And I don't say this as a plug at anyone in particular, but as a basis by which all topics should be governed as it bears to gameplay support, concept and suggestion.

[Katsuro]

Originally Posted by Shilenne

They're trying to find the perfect balance for both people that prefer PVE and PVP, people that prefer ONLY PVP, and prefer that prefer PVE. I don't understand why people would want a game only to dedicate to one of these areas instead of being able to suit the taste of everything. It's like saying this world should only have the food I want to eat and whatever I don't like should just not exist, that's not how things work and it's definitely not how things should be working.

Not to mention this Beta is mainly to test servers and new zones, they're not quite done with anything really yet so it's still too early to argue or even worry about what it would be like. Sure we can guess, but there's no need to frighten ourselves over imaginations are there?

Well I'm suggesting, that...well look at it this way, when you hear stories of legends and lore, your not listening to grandpa say "and as he raised his sword, to vanquish the exceptionally large sea turtle mob he said only this: "Ok this is what like 2%? Only 50 more of this and I'll be level 2!!!" Your listening to him say how many lives were taken, what great monsters he fought and beheaded, and how many dames he banged...end of story...

[adrianus]

OMG.. haven't read all the replays.. cos it takes 2 long xD but i've seen the idea.

anyway.. here is my opinion:

I hate grinding !!!!!!!!!! sometimes is necessary and brings joy other u done it (like getting new skill, item, w.e.), but massive, nolife grindfast action is not my stile.

some1 said here:

I'm happy as long as I see my xp bar move a bit. 1% an hour is decent (xp you have to be in group), if solo then 0.5% an hour is decent as well.

now really man ... getting 1% per hour, 100% in 100 hours, 10 days with 10 hours playing for 1 lvl? or 20 days in my stile ... this is insane , madness , it tales years 2 have a high lvl, it's just not my stile and get so bored after a while that u quit.

I've had my grinding time in Martial Heroes, but then i've learned the game and found easy ways 2 lvl up (n plvl or other tricks like botting). I'm lvl 102 now from max 160, and max player lvl so far is 138. If i go grinding, in party at +50-53 higher mobs, I do 1% / hour like this guy, and if this would be like this forever no1 will play; but this game has a star system.. from time 2 time , randomly, u get a massive exp from 1 mob, in this case... like 1.5% or higher for all the members in party, it's like 50xnormal exp from that mob... and there r expensive tags that can double or triple this star rate, also exp pots or tags for +10-30% more exp and rare tags for 1 hour double exp, so grinding comes with expensive costs, but more easier. Also there r everyday events (revenge battle ) where after ur randomly team wins u get 1hour summon training with high exp mobs, and if i'm on double exp tag and 30% potion I can make 30-50% in 1hour, depending on the stars I can get in this hour


also..

I like to grind in Cabal. Thats about it. The Combo system keeps in entertaining for me.

yeah that game has a really cool skill system that keeps u enjoy the game and grinding... but I hate the game after he went F2P ... 2 many channels, 2 many gold sellers, 2 many mofos.. so I only play from time 2 time when I get bored.


Other think I want 2 add... is that in what i've understood .. the gaming system is made that u can lvl as much as fast by questing as by grinding.. so .. if u dont like grinding.. u can quest.. if u dont like questing, u can grind.. and every1 will be happy :P I bet that at high lvls u have hard quests, that will make u better grind or it will be like in Perfect World with repeated quests

[Aitze]

I don't really dislike grinding as long as it's with friends, I guess. As long as the mobs we're facing aren't too hard ( I;d be too pressured) I can socialize a bit, listen to music, look around me at the environment. It's actually kind of relaxing.
Variety is always necessary though, too much of anything is just... painful.