Who actually enjoys grinding?

[BaXx]

Originally Posted by Heinel

Actually your second and third sentence agree with the rest of the post you quoted. Reading the full post helps.

Where the hell does it say that he enjoys grinding with his friends and where the hell does it say that he doesn't like grinding alone?

Reading the full post good helps.

Originally Posted by Endrance

Then you don't seem to be an experienced one BaXx. I'm playing MMOs for longer than ten years and I've played many of them. In that time, I usually played together with friends @voicechat. So sure, it was cool at the beginning (about the first two-three years), especially when those friends were unexprienced and I had stuff to explain to them. But after awhile you just realize how ****ing simple and time-wasting grinding is. Actually, I've realized that after playing games together with them that actually required some player skill (which grinding usually... doesn't at all), wasn't monotonous and/or 100% repetitive. It was like, x10 more fun.
So, I'm not saying it's impossible to enjoy a grind, but ****, it's still one of the worst things you can do in the gaming world to entertain yourself. You could compare grinding to the bible. Both were probably decent at the beginning, but now they're friggin outdated.

It's true, I'm not that experienced but at the time being, i like grinding

[Heinel]

Originally Posted by BaXx

Where the hell does it say that he enjoys grinding with his friends and where the hell does it say that he doesn't like grinding alone?

Reading the full post good helps.

You said grinding alone is boring. That basically agrees with his position.

Grinding is boring.

What you actually enjoy is chatting with friends while having some low-upkeep activities on the side, it doesn't have to be grinding, it could also be watching TV, washing dishes, whatever.

The point is, you enjoyed chatting with friends and mistakenly associate it with grinding.

[BaXx]

Originally Posted by Heinel

You said grinding alone is boring. That basically agrees with his position.

Grinding is boring.

What you actually enjoy is chatting with friends while having some low-upkeep activities on the side, it doesn't have to be grinding, it could also be watching TV, washing dishes, whatever.

The point is, you enjoyed chatting with friends and mistakenly associate it with grinding.

No i did not. Playing a game while you talk with friends is fun. It doesn't have to be grinding it can be quests and what not.

So even though i think everything is fun in a game while talking with friends, that means that grinding is included (grinding=fun).

[Endrance]

You don't like grinding, but you tolerate it as a compromise to get to do more interesting stuff.
Developers use grinding to keep you in the game for longer, because especially for unexperienced players it's kind of addictive.
If you honestly like grinding, then you probably wouldn't stand a chance against me in games that require player skill. >.>

[Heinel]

Originally Posted by BaXx

No i did not. Playing a game while you talk with friends is fun. It doesn't have to be grinding it can be quests and what not.

So even though i think everything is fun in a game while talking with friends, that means that grinding is included (grinding=fun).

Now you're agreeing with me as well.

You acknowledged that anything can unconditionally be fun as long as you're talking with friends. What you chose not to discuss is the individual merits of each activity, which is Ashen's point.

[BaXx]

Originally Posted by Endrance

You don't like grinding, but you tolerate it as a compromise to get to do more interesting stuff.
Developers use grinding to keep you in the game for longer, because especially for unexperienced players it's kind of addictive.
If you honestly like grinding, then you probably wouldn't stand a chance against me in games that require player skill. >.>

Who are you two guys to tell me what i do and don't like? You don't know me so don't say that i don't like grinding.

And just because i enjoy grinding does that mean that you are better than me Endrance ? Lol elitist.

[Heinel]

Originally Posted by BaXx

Who are you two guys to tell me what i do and don't like? You don't know me so don't say that i don't like grinding.

I didn't tell you what you like and what you do not like. You told me that in your posts.

[BaXx]

Originally Posted by Heinel

You said grinding alone is boring. That basically agrees with his position.

Grinding is boring.

What you actually enjoy is chatting with friends while having some low-upkeep activities on the side, it doesn't have to be grinding, it could also be watching TV, washing dishes, whatever.
The point is, you enjoyed chatting with friends and mistakenly associate it with grinding.

O'RLY?....

Originally Posted by Endrance

You don't like grinding, but you tolerate it as a compromise to get to do more interesting stuff.
Developers use grinding to keep you in the game for longer, because especially for unexperienced players it's kind of addictive.
If you honestly like grinding, then you probably wouldn't stand a chance against me in games that require player skill. >.>

O'RLY?.....

You both just told me what i like and don't like.

[Heinel]

Originally Posted by BaXx

O'RLY?....



O'RLY?.....

You both just told me what i like and don't like.

Except what I said is just a reiteration of your own post.

You said grinding alone is boring. If you truly enjoyed grinding, you wouldn't need friends to keep you engaged. You would've liked it even if you're the only one doing it. That clearly isn't the case.

The marketing strategy behind grinding, and why it has been successful, was that it locked people up in these traps of contradictions.

[Koji]

Grinding and the rewards for grinding are the only thing that keep people playing MMO's for so long. Fact.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Koji

Grinding and the rewards for grinding are the only thing that keep people playing MMO's for so long. Fact.

That's kinda like saying: "People like Nutella, because it's Nutella and cause it makes people happy are the only thing that makes people eat it." while everyone else has been looking way deeper into the topic beforehands, talking about ingredientes and psychologic factors. Kinda funny.
Also, it's not really the 'only' thing and pretty much depends on the MMO. Sure, in Games like Ragnarok Online the grinding is what keeps people playing (cause there's nothing else lol). But pretty much everything about a game is what makes people keep playing a MMO, so... your statement is kinda weird. xD

[Koji]

Well the content in MMO's run out eventually. So the only thing left is to repeat it and repeat it some more IE. Grinding.

You don't have to look deep and hard into what grinding actually is and all the variables of grinding like who you do it with and whether it is worth it.

The simple fact is that MMO's don't have the content to last players the length of time they want them playing so adding grind to the game makes people have something to aim for and expands play time.

I'm not just talking about grinding mobs here. No sir. I'm talking about repeating anything for a reward. PVP points, raid drops whatever. It's all the same if you look at from a different perspective.

The trick with grinding is to make the player not realise they are grinding. Which is where all 'ingredients and psychological factors' come in.

Don't hate me for breaking down a load of deciding factors into a sentence that at least i believe and accept.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Koji

Well the content in MMO's run out eventually. So the only thing left is to repeat it and repeat it some more IE. Grinding.

I don't know about you, but where I come from people usually... quit at that point. Or occassionally show up to do the interesting stuff.

I'm not just talking about grinding mobs here. No sir. I'm talking about repeating anything for a reward. PVP points, raid drops whatever. It's all the same if you look at from a different perspective.

Considering Raids or PvP points as grinding would be a wrong statement to generalize though, don't you agree? I mean, yea, it contains many intention that are the same as they are about grinding, but that doesn't mean that they are grinding. PvP and grinding mobs is not the same thing to begin with. Then again, it surely also depends on how it has been implemented.

The trick with grinding is to make the player not realise they are grinding. Which is where all 'ingredients and psychological factors' come in.

I don't think that anything but grinding (hence, making EXP in Party/solo killing mobs and nothing else but that) is grinding.

Don't hate me for breaking down a load of deciding factors into a sentence that at least i believe and accept.

Lol.

[Koji]

I consider anything that i have to repeat alot of times to get a reward as grinding. I think you just think grinding is just killing mobs over and over for XP. I see it as everything that needs to be repeated to reap it's benefits. I agree with you that making it tolerable is how it's implimented.

If everyone quit before the grind showed up the MMO would lose far too many players to sustain itself.