Who actually enjoys grinding?

[Koji]

I love how you attack me personally. Nice touch. I've never done proper grinding. Casual MMO player...so if it all gets boring i just stop playing them. Don't judge what you don't know.

Nevertheless...people do keep paying and playing to grind out the rewards.

I honestly wish that MMO's were more intuitive and thought outside the box but most play off the same setups as previous games because it's a tried and tested system that works. People see it as the norm and that's why i accept it because i don't have any power over how companies make their MMO's.

I don't think MMO=Grind at all. I just think it extends the gameplay in a simple way.

I don't know why you are having a go at me anyway. You are clearly more angry at the way MMO's are made and because i stated it you seem to think that i'm all to happy to pay for grind...believe me i'm not.

[Jamm]

Originally Posted by Ronald

I have noticed after reading the forums alot of people are hoping that there is not much grinding. I am actually hoping that aion requires a bit of time to lvl from 1-50, I hate games that alow you to lvl too fast.
It helps seperate the "noobs" from the people who are serious about the game. It also makes you feel like you really earn't the strength of your lvl 50 character. Would be no where near as fun if you could lvl incredibly quickly What do you think?

I wouldnt mind some grinding, as long as you didnt have to do it for 3+ hours a day to gain a measily level.

As for grinding seperating "noobs" from "serious" gamers, I dont get it.
Since when have MMO's been for the "serious" players only? The thing about MMO's is that they are catered to be accessible by all the different kinds of gamers, be it old or young.
While a grind would deter some of the more immature players from getting to the level cap, I doubt it will stop them all.

[BahamutKaiser]

Your assuming impatient people surmise the poluation of immature people, rather, people who accept the timesink of grind and waste their life have serious issues to resolve, pretending that dedication is a virtue as it pertains to entertainment is a misperception, dedication is only a virtue if it is toward a worthwile cause. There are many people dedicated to poor relationships, and it isn't a virtue, and nor is dedicating your time to grind because it is difficult. If the gameplay is fun, than it isn't grind, and if it isn't fun it is a waste of time, there is no virtue in it.

[Terpsichore]

As long as the game is hard enough to filter lazy players, its ok.

[Ashen]

I'd like to say that Heinel and Endrance are both fairly proud of themselves.

In other news, I take back what I said after reading Baxx and Koji's posts, it seems as if grinding CAN be enjoyable depending on how it is used, and that it is present in all MMOs and thus unavoidable. At the time of my post I was thinking specifically of Lineage 2 which is the ultimate grind fest.

Few MMOs are as bad as Lineage 2 in terms of grinding, and its unfair to take that one extreme and apply it to all grinding in general, like I have done (as well as potential other posters).

[Terpsichore]

Honestly, if we compare something like wow to l2, i prefer l2, retarded grind is better than no grind at all.

[Calindor]

Originally Posted by Ashen

No one enjoys grinding, grinding is not something someone enjoys.

Anyone who disagrees does not realize there are alternative ways to gain levels without having to suffer through ridiculous auto attacks for hours upon hours.

Grinding is a method used by companies that forces players to continue playing because it requires a large amount of time to reach max level, and since it takes so long they are forced to pay monthly or quit. This method is a really easy way to make money, and since that is the goal when you make an MMO that is why grinding is so common.

NCsoft has relied on grinding in the past, pumping out lots of MMOs in short periods of time so that they can keep herding MMO fans unto the next game. I hope this wont be the case for Aion, and it doesn't seem to be.

I'm sure what I've said has been said before, but I'm not in the mood to read 22 pages.

wrong

wrong

wrong

wrong

correct


this is still why i keep asking if people mean grind as in hack and slash repetitive play, or grinding as in it takes a long time to do something. Lvling up in WoW is obviously more fun overall than L2, but anyday of the week I'd rather do 2 hours of grinding than 2 hours of questing....I just would rather do 2 months of questing to hit end game than 1 year of grinding.

[Heinel]

Originally Posted by Koji

I love how you attack me personally. Nice touch. I've never done proper grinding. Casual MMO player...so if it all gets boring i just stop playing them. Don't judge what you don't know.

Nevertheless...people do keep paying and playing to grind out the rewards.

I honestly wish that MMO's were more intuitive and thought outside the box but most play off the same setups as previous games because it's a tried and tested system that works. People see it as the norm and that's why i accept it because i don't have any power over how companies make their MMO's.

I don't think MMO=Grind at all. I just think it extends the gameplay in a simple way.

I don't know why you are having a go at me anyway. You are clearly more angry at the way MMO's are made and because i stated it you seem to think that i'm all to happy to pay for grind...believe me i'm not.

For someone who didn't actually experience "grinding" you sure speak as though you have a lot of expertise in the field. Too much, in fact.

Though it is nice that you clarified your position, I will treat any perceived contradictions in previous posts as misinterpretations on my part.

[Mournbringer]

The grind of Lineage 2 is the primary reason I question NCSoft's ability to make a note-worthy game. They seduced me by the sexy graphics for a year and a half (yes I am a graphics ***** - if game looks good I am more inclined to play etc). That and the bot fest - but then every game has the bot challenge now.

Frankly the choice of grind is becoming and industry decision due to WoW and similar games that added content attractive enough to take make the most casual of the casual want to play. That being said - it does not take 5 million players for a MMO to be successful either.

I enjoyed the grind when I was younger (about 7 years younger and no kids). Now things have changed and I enjoy being rewarded more often than before - not because I became more selfish, but because my time is more limited. Half the grind of L2 would be doable and rewarding and probably filter out the somewhat lazy players - the sad fact is, those lazy players pay the bills same as the hard core players - and they are more of them!

I have tried to read just about every post on this forum concerning the closed beta 2 - and quite honestly became very impressed - even with my negative attitude from L2. I think they have done good with the grind on this game from what I have heard.

[Shade]

The debate in this thread is horrible, seriously. This needs to stop, ****ty debates like this are popping up throughout the forums...

Originally Posted by Heinel

Actually your second and third sentence agree with the rest of the post you quoted. Reading the full post helps.

And? He enjoys grinding, thus proving that Ashen's claim is invalid. The means of how he achieves his enjoyment aren't a factor.






I really can't be bothered with this thread actually.

/exit

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Shade

And? He enjoys grinding, thus proving that Ashen's claim is invalid. The means of how he achieves his enjoyment aren't a factor.

Considering him as an exception, that would indeed be a factor. Grinding in general and in most games is simple, monotonous and very easy (grinding in L2 is easy as crap, it just takes uber long) gameplay-wise. Sounds like a dream for dedicated gamers, eh?
Some people here are just trying to prove that the only reason people consider grinding as fun, is if they talk over vent with friends (which objectively has nothing to do with grinding - I could also read a book or watch TV while grinding, but does that have something to do with the grinding itself? No.), hence somehow making grinding enjoyable REGARDLESS of the grind. Anything can be fun if done with good friends being on the same wavelength as you or them just being addicted to it, because of having randomly set up "goals" in the game (hence "withoutthinkingaboutit-illusions").

Grinding is outdated and MMOs simply should get rid of making it be the main part of the game. Make most of it missions, quests, instances, organized event fights with ingame-TV, GIVE US A PLOT, hell, even online-RPing is more enjoyable even for someone like me who tends to dislike it alot. Iuno, there's so many options, since MMORPGs have so much space to fill. Grinding COULD be fun, if the outcome wouldn't depend so much on it. Grinding in most games is now 90-99%. Make it 50% and I'm fine with it.

[Shade]

Originally Posted by Endrance

Considering him as an exception, that would indeed be a factor. Grinding in general and in most games is simple, monotonous and very easy (grinding in L2 is easy as crap, it just takes uber long) gameplay-wise. Sounds like a dream for dedicated gamers, eh? Some people here are just trying to prove that the only reason people consider grinding as fun, is if they talk over vent with friends (which objectively has nothing to do with grinding - I could also read a book or watch TV while grinding, but does that have something to do with the grinding itself? No.), hence somehow making grinding enjoyable REGARDLESS of the grind. Anything can be fun if done with good friends being on the same wavelength as youor them just being addictaed to it, because of having randomly set up "goals" in the game.

Perhaps those are the aspects of the types of grinding you're referring to which people like? Some people might enjoy the classic MMO grind just because it's easy to multi-task with.

Originally Posted by Endrance

Grinding is outdated and MMOs simply should get rid of making it be the main part of the game. Make most of it missions, quests, instances, organized event fights with ingame-TV, GIVE US A PLOT, hell, even online-RPing is more enjoyable even for someone like me who tends to dislike it alot, iuno, there's so many options, since MMORPGs have so much space to fill. Grinding COULD be fun, if the outcome wouldn't depend so much on it.

Agreed, but that would cost an insane amount of money. Much more than any game that has previously been developed.

[Ashen]

Originally Posted by Shade

The debate in this thread is horrible, seriously. This needs to stop, ****ty debates like this are popping up throughout the forums...



And? He enjoys grinding, thus proving that Ashen's claim is invalid. The means of how he achieves his enjoyment aren't a factor.






I really can't be bothered with this thread actually.

/exit

I've already said my claim is invalid. xD

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Shade

Perhaps those are the aspects of the types of grinding you're referring to which people like? Some people might enjoy the classic MMO grind just because it's easy to multi-task with.

Games aren't made for you to be able to multi-task the main part of the game in the first place. Because grinding is so simple, we have bots. Because grinding is unbearable generally, we have gold-farmers and gold-buyers.
If people consider MMORPGs as grinding, the MMORPG genre fails miserably. And you know what? That's exactly my current opinion.

Agreed, but that would cost an insane amount of money. Much more than any game that has previously been developed.

FFXI already kinda went the right way without having cost an insane amount of money. I mean, all we gamers need is atmosphere and cool characters. Give us Sephiroth, Cloud, Vincent, Yuffie and Cid or whatever in a MMO, build up a gigantic-like feeling story with alot of side plots and different kinds of instances/PvP options.

I can't play a game (regardless of it being a MMO) just for the grind (as a rational thinking human and gamer, not just as myself). Grinding is a waste (how could anyone argue against that? it's a friggin fact) and pretty much every MMORPG doesn't offer much more than that (while WoW is rather the unnecessary item-collecting type).