Who actually enjoys grinding?

[Endrance]

The basic concept (the core one to begin with) of MMORPGs is to advance through completing tasks. Tasks always take time, therefore people who invest more time will complete more tasks. The only efficient way I can think of to make this fair is to cut down hardcore players by giving everyone only a given amount of time/trials per day. Comparing MMORPGs to real life about that is completely stupid though, as the basis of MMORPGs is a completely different one. In real life, you can't blame anyone for yourself not being as good in something as someone else. It's yourself and you have to get along with it (everyone would start all over with a better body if they had the option).
In MMORPGs everyone starts with the same possiblities and it's like that for a reason: If you'd make other people get advantages through making someone better as someone else in the first place (that's why F2P games fail), they can blame someone for it. They could argue that there was a chance to make it fair and they'd be friggin right about it.
MMORPGs are not real life, as you aren't doing anything for yourself, but for your character, which is not you in the first place, but you are only controlling it.
Everyone wants to be good at what they do. Sadly in MMORPGs, good basically refers to huge investements of time. That's in fact ridiculously unfavorable, as people who don't have as much time to invest feel cheated by those who do. They're better than them in a game, because they set their priorities wrong. Sadly, this is not just pitiful, but also actually makes them have advantages in the game itself (naturally). Of course, the people who do it right wont do it wrong because of that, although that doesn't solve the problem. And that is the problem this is all about.
Even the most stupid one's under us know that your family, your work, generally your real self is more important than the playing around in a virtual world for entertainment.
If you do more sports in real life your body and mind benefits through you doing that.
If you play more videogames while sitting down with your *** on a chair it wont get better the more you play, but worse for your actual body and mind.
MMORPGs are there to have fun, just for entertainment. And nothing else. You must set yourself reasonable limits, unless you want to get owned by the laws of the nature.
Sports are there for you to have fun as well, for entertainment. The good part is though, that you also 'permanently' feel better through doing it.
And please just stop arguing the **** out of it. If you do sports with your character ingame, that sure as hell is not the same and by far not as good for yourself as if you did it with your own damn body. If you disagree with that, go ask any doctor or scientist, but stop posting your idiotic opinion coming from your own sluggishness in online forums just because you can't hear people laughing at you in the internet. Don't make that your basis, people will find out someday.

The goal of MMORPGs should be to make the game work in harmony with real life, therefore it shouldn't seem better to play more in MMORPGs, but to play good. You should get bonuses for playing good, while everyone is given the same amount of time (maybe max EXP per day or max mobs killed, whatever) per day, so the chances for everyone are the same.
**** business, **** money about that. **** people being greedy for success. It's clearly more important to make this have sense instead of letting greediness win and there's simply no argument that could stand against this.
Quality over quantity. That also goes for MMORPGs, of course.

[Windcaller]

^Basically what he said.

[Calindor]

Originally Posted by pyrocrazy

You know that grind isnt everything...
using your crap analogy ill say this


the kitchen man might have made 1000 burgers and 1000 fries in that time while gaining less money he did more during that same time, the office man may have only answered 1 phone call...

so the kitchen man accomplished more...he just received less for it...

Yeah but the kitchen is still a different job (game) than the office (god i hate talking analogies). Its more like 2 guys work in a kitchen, 1 worked his *** off for 10 hours while the other worked for 5 hours, so one guy got $50 out of it, and the other $25. Or 2 guys were both in a kitchen making burgers, one guy slacked and made 100 burgers, the other guy worked his *** off and made 500, so he got a bonus.




What I meant for its the same for everything...is think of a sport? You think professional athletes just have a gift and they laze around all day eating doritos? No. Sure they have a gift, but an NHL player or something is still playing 2-3 games a week and on the ice all day for another 3 days a week, and training harder than you or me has ever trained before during the summer....Should some bum who sits around all day and plays maybe 5 hours a week be as good as them? If you play a shooter for 1 hour a day, should you beat someone who plays 8 hours a day, does clan/ladder matches and enters tournaments? Skill/talent can only take you so far, it gives you a bonus making you get more out of it per time spent.



Sure games need to be easy (atleast to get into) to hold casual players, but it also needs to have content at the end, or people will get bored and it will die, developers have to consider that aswell. Do you think so many people would be playing WoW if it took only a month of arena to get S5 arena gear? Or if you got atleast 1 set item per raid?...People would run out of things to do....there always has to be something to work towards, WoW just made the bad choice of end game work being for new gear, just to get new gear, so you can farm more new gear.

[Socrates]

Originally Posted by Ronald

I have noticed after reading the forums alot of people are hoping that there is not much grinding. I am actually hoping that aion requires a bit of time to lvl from 1-50, I hate games that alow you to lvl too fast.
It helps seperate the "noobs" from the people who are serious about the game. It also makes you feel like you really earn't the strength of your lvl 50 character. Would be no where near as fun if you could lvl incredibly quickly What do you think?

i prefer grinding over questing because questing is only fun the 1st time through the game. repeating the same quests over and over again is NOT fun when your leveling new toons. also i hate thinking, i prefer mindless killing over 'collect x amount of items'. i also believe it does weed out a lot of 'tards.

[Iceburgh]

Originally Posted by Endrance

The basic concept (the core one to begin with) of MMORPGs is to advance through completing tasks. Tasks always take time, therefore people who invest more time will complete more tasks. The only efficient way I can think of to make this fair is to cut down hardcore players by giving everyone only a given amount of time/trials per day. Comparing MMORPGs to real life about that is completely stupid though, as the basis of MMORPGs is a completely different one. In real life, you can't blame anyone for yourself not being as good in something as someone else. It's yourself and you have to get along with it (everyone would start all over with a better body if they had the option).
In MMORPGs everyone starts with the same possiblities and it's like that for a reason: If you'd make other people get advantages through making someone better as someone else in the first place (that's why F2P games fail), they can blame someone for it. They could argue that there was a chance to make it fair and they'd be friggin right about it.
MMORPGs are not real life, as you aren't doing anything for yourself, but for your character, which is not you in the first place, but you are only controlling it.
Everyone wants to be good at what they do. Sadly in MMORPGs, good basically refers to huge investements of time. That's in fact ridiculously unfavorable, as people who don't have as much time to invest feel cheated by those who do. They're better than them in a game, because they set their priorities wrong. Sadly, this is not just pitiful, but also actually makes them have advantages in the game itself (naturally). Of course, the people who do it right wont do it wrong because of that, although that doesn't solve the problem. And that is the problem this is all about.
Even the most stupid one's under us know that your family, your work, generally your real self is more important than the playing around in a virtual world for entertainment.
If you do more sports in real life your body and mind benefits through you doing that.
If you play more videogames while sitting down with your *** on a chair it wont get better the more you play, but worse for your actual body and mind.
MMORPGs are there to have fun, just for entertainment. And nothing else. You must set yourself reasonable limits, unless you want to get owned by the laws of the nature.
Sports are there for you to have fun as well, for entertainment. The good part is though, that you also 'permanently' feel better through doing it.
And please just stop arguing the **** out of it. If you do sports with your character ingame, that sure as hell is not the same and by far not as good for yourself as if you did it with your own damn body. If you disagree with that, go ask any doctor or scientist, but stop posting your idiotic opinion coming from your own sluggishness in online forums just because you can't hear people laughing at you in the internet. Don't make that your basis, people will find out someday.

The goal of MMORPGs should be to make the game work in harmony with real life, therefore it shouldn't seem better to play more in MMORPGs, but to play good. You should get bonuses for playing good, while everyone is given the same amount of time (maybe max EXP per day or max mobs killed, whatever) per day, so the chances for everyone are the same.
**** business, **** money about that. **** people being greedy for success. It's clearly more important to make this have sense instead of letting greediness win and there's simply no argument that could stand against this.
Quality over quantity. That also goes for MMORPGs, of course.

LoL this is wrong on so many levels.

I'll simplify my post for you to understand.

What pays for quality? -Money
What pays for quantity?- Money
Do developers care about your physical health? - No
Do they care about your physical mind? - No
Do they care about their business? -Yes
What keeps a company from going out of business? - Money
What are customers?- People with money buying products.
What is Aion? - A Product
Who buys products? - Customers
What do customers pay? -Money
What do all companys want to do? -Make Money.

Please logically explain why a company that we know is for profit not want to make money want to make a game that....lol.... "Works in Harmony with real life." As you said the virtual world isnt as important as real life so if the company follows the same ideals as you then they would want a game thats as addicting as possible to keep people spending money on something "Not worth it" because they are making "REAL" money. Something tangible.

Youre pretty naive if you actually believe that companys arent out to just make another quick easy buck.

[pyrocrazy]

And how are they going to make money if they throw a piece of **** on the table and say to buy it?

[Socrates]

Originally Posted by pyrocrazy

And how are they going to make money if they throw a piece of **** on the table and say to buy it?

it worked with Age of Conan...

[KatzuyAion]

Originally Posted by Socrates

it worked with Age of Conan...

Right.. Just because you dont like Age of Conan, doesn't mean everyone else doesnt like. Age of Conan is a very nice game. However i only have eyes for Aion :P .

And well about the work/time/rewards.

Since the first time i started playing MMORPGS (Mu online was my first :P ) i was taught that, more the time you spentk killing monsters, the higher level you will reach. that is the basic concept of an MMORPG. Trough variations, it revealed many more ways of leveling, such as questing. I dont think a game should be hard enough that you couldn't stand with lthen eveling, but i'm also very against easy leveling! that's the wow type players, were they want everything given/offered in a silver plate. (i hope that the koreans differ from blizzard in that point).

Normally you must work hard (i don't mean like dying in the keyboard, like 2-4 hours per day) to reach a somewhat powerful position in a MMORPG. If you opinion is (it's a game, it's not for work), well then you are going against the main purpouse of the creation of MMORPG's. That's why Consoles exist, so you can always play the next final fantasy or whatever may be, at your own time, at your own rate, without expecting less or more. .

[Calindor]

No, AoC is has a shiny case, but on the inside its all turds...WoW is actually a nice looking, well polished turd.

[Iceburgh]

Originally Posted by KatzuyAion

Right.. Just because you dont like Age of Conan, doesn't mean everyone else doesnt like. Age of Conan is a very nice game. However i only have eyes for Aion :P .

And well about the work/time/rewards.

Since the first time i started playing MMORPGS (Mu online was my first :P ) i was taught that, more the time you spentk killing monsters, the higher level you will reach. that is the basic concept of an MMORPG. Trough variations, it revealed many more ways of leveling, such as questing. I dont think a game should be hard enough that you couldn't stand with lthen eveling, but i'm also very against easy leveling! that's the wow type players, were they want everything given/offered in a silver plate. (i hope that the koreans differ from blizzard in that point).

Normally you must work hard (i don't mean like dying in the keyboard, like 2-4 hours per day) to reach a somewhat powerful position in a MMORPG. If you opinion is (it's a game, it's not for work), well then you are going against the main purpouse of the creation of MMORPG's. That's why Consoles exist, so you can always play the next final fantasy or whatever may be, at your own time, at your own rate, without expecting less or more. .

Cause clearly the only people who should be able to play MMOs should be people with lots of free timeto waste. Not the guy who cant stand console games or playing alone by himself 2hrs a week when he manages to have time off from his busy schdule. And clearly he must want to play FF. There you people go with the assumptions that you know what people want. IF I only had 30min of game time a week id rather spend it online in an MMO of my choice than playing a console game or some 1 player game. Im not going to care about what everyone else is gaining but I would want to be able to acomplish something. I dont thin id enjoy logging in for my 30min to see kill 5000 boars. and end my day at 1000 boars and only gain .4% exp. Therefore I would quit that game and play something more casual friendly and give that company my money. Thats why games with huge grinds dont do well and end up overflowing with bots/power leveling services or Private Servers.

[Calindor]

No matter what you accomplish in 30 min, if someone else is playing 5 hours a day, they will accomplish ~10x more (nobody is really that efficient). And if they dont, they will run out of things to do too fast, and the game will die...there always has to be something rewarding to do at ANY time in a MMO, or it will die.

[Iceburgh]

Originally Posted by Calindor

No matter what you accomplish in 30 min, if someone else is playing 5 hours a day, they will accomplish ~10x more (nobody is really that efficient). And if they dont, they will run out of things to do too fast, and the game will die...there always has to be something rewarding to do at ANY time in a MMO, or it will die.

Did you even read my posts? Ive already pointed out this info already. Now we're going in circles.

[meccariello]

no one "enjoys the grind" but in a way it keeps people coming back for more while they chase levels... the problem is that many "get bored" once they max out... this is where expansions or increased levels/content become important.

the respec system becomes important in keeping interest in a character

of course so does the economy (people play for many reasons... some are into levels, some are into "the money", some are into crafting. hopfully this game has all 3. city of heroes had major problems with a lack of economy/crafting. it is a great game but got old in terms of "nothing to do but grind"

[HunterX]

Originally Posted by Socrates

it worked with Age of Conan...

lol when I read pyrocrazy's post I instantly thought of Aoc aswell.