Population

[reflex]

i'm not in direct agreement with anybody nor am i repeating anything. Also my definition of imbalance is not the same as everyone else's. As I've stated I'm ok with 3:2 ratios. 1:2 is too extreme, although I am in agreement that it may never happen - I only offered a remote hypothetical IF IT DID, then the game would suck.

Kentaro, just as you are frustrated with people getting your point, I'm frustrated that people don't understand how important a good balance of population between two sides that can PvP only vs each other is vital to the game's success. Thus, we are not always arguing on the same point. I don't necessarily disagree with a player's right to choose, but if it became so extreme that it's affecting the quality of the game for everyone else, then something has to be done. They can make the less-played side more desirable to play or they can restrict.

If there is to be any PvP between two factions (since you can't fight people of the same faction) then there will very likely be queue times for any organized type of PvP, and there is no reason to believe this isn't so for Aion. If they make it server vs server, then population restrictions must be applied to the entire game, not just per server.

Unlike other people, I am not talking about getting ganked in world pvp. I'm specifically talking organized PvP.

[Calindor]

a random 5v1 means nothing if you play on a server with 2k horde and 500 alliance online, and there is nothing done by blizzard to correct these problems, they simply stay the way they are until everyone gets fed up and leaves the server...but like i said it doesnt make much of a difference since everything you do in WoW is instanced, or done with people from other servers.

When there are raids, sieges and open abyss pvp going on, the total numer of players in the area is going to make a huge difference. And people WILL be forming parties ALL day long to simply roam the abyss searching for people to kill.

I've never played another clan based game like L2 (aion is faction based, but clans will be controling castle and raid bosses), and say a server that manages to hit 3k people online might produce 2 or maybe 3 strong alliances (70%+ of the people online at one time in a mmorpg are just non-factor randoms that dont compete in anything that relates to server balance/competition), capable of competing and winning sieges/raid bosses on a regular basis. Lets say an Aion server also has 3k people online, and the split is 2000 asmo and 1000 elyos. Since alliances in L2 are usually 2-4 clans, that would make maybe 2 or 3 factor clans on the elyos side, and 5 or 6 on the asmo. Every siege and raid boss being competed for will have more factor clans from one side showing up...if theres 10 castles, that means no matter what will be done, one side WILL always have more (unless the balaur continuously and repeatedly help out). The balaur cant even player numbers, if 1 side has less, it wont change unless something registration wise is done about it...and imo a 2v1 (elyos + balaur vs asmo) server is no better than one where one side is bigger.

If you go on a server related L2 forum, half the freaking topics have something to do with server balance...the difference in L2 is that when one side is really strong, other people can group up to defeat them, or that side will simply break up for the purpose of competition...when your entire faction is outnumbered there is NOTHING you can do.


and also i dont know what other people are planning to do. Im starting on a server with my clan from aion's launch/OB, and i intend to stay there. I dont plan to move around server to server on my own seeking one that suits me. I stay with my clan, and a clan isnt going to do much if they have to organize server transfers all the time.

ninja edit: as much as aion is a RvR game, when clans control the raid bosses and *especially* castles that give benefits, the balance of a server is going to come down to a few strong clans on each side.

[DemonXaphan]

Since this thread has been derailed, thrashed, gotten wet, mopped up, dirtied again, and steamed, i'll forgo making a stupid comment or put a silly pic for comic relief as this thread has gone beyond its intention.

[Kentaro]

Originally Posted by Calindor

a random 5v1 means nothing if you play on a server with 2k horde and 500 alliance online, and there is nothing done by blizzard to correct these problems, they simply stay the way they are until everyone gets fed up and leaves the server...but like i said it doesnt make much of a difference since everything you do in WoW is instanced, or done with people from other servers.

Um, there has never been a server with WoW with its 10 million players that has a server with 2000 Horde and 500 Alliance online and even than as you said a majority of the things you do in WoW is instanced meaning you don't have to deal with most of the people once again as I said making it unnoticeable, in open PvP its still unnoticeable because I doubt all 2000 horde will be in one area nor will all 500 alliance which means you could be in Shadow-moon valley farming and there could be 150 alliance in the area and maybe 200 Horde which is a balanced fight because not everyone is top-notch skilled or top-notched gear. Do you understand where I'm getting at?

Originally Posted by Calindor

When there are raids, sieges and open abyss pvp going on, the total numer of players in the area is going to make a huge difference. And people WILL be forming parties ALL day long to simply roam the abyss searching for people to kill.

Even in a balanced server their could be more Elyos on than Asmodians or vice-versa on playing when a raid or siege happens and when they PvP in abyss which means its still going to be a unbalanced fight despite a balanced or unbalanced server, and of course people will be forming parties most of the day to farm for the PvP gear, but even in a balanced server it doesn't mean there is going to be a fair number of people that happen to be in that area for a balanced fight or a fair number of people who have time to come and help fight, which in essence will resemble a unbalanced server fight? which could fool people into believing its a unbalanced server.

Originally Posted by Calindor

I've never played another clan based game like L2 (aion is faction based, but clans will be controling castle and raid bosses), and say a server that manages to hit 3k people online might produce 2 or maybe 3 strong alliances (70%+ of the people online at one time in a mmorpg are just non-factor randoms that dont compete in anything that relates to server balance/competition), capable of competing and winning sieges/raid bosses on a regular basis. Lets say an Aion server also has 3k people online, and the split is 2000 asmo and 1000 elyos. Since alliances in L2 are usually 2-4 clans, that would make maybe 2 or 3 factor clans on the elyos side, and 5 or 6 on the asmo. Every siege and raid boss being competed for will have more factor clans from one side showing up...if theres 10 castles, that means no matter what will be done, one side WILL always have more (unless the balaur continuously and repeatedly help out). The balaur cant even player numbers, if 1 side has less, it wont change unless something registration wise is done about it...and imo a 2v1 (elyos + balaur vs asmo) server is no better than one where one side is bigger.

Just because their 2-4 clans in L2 doesn't mean it will be the same in Aion since its faction base, sure we players will able to hold castles, raid castles, and raid bosses in the open, but as I said earlier its not about the population for each race its about who is on and when they are on which makes the difference, sure you can have 2000 Asmodians and 1000 Elyos, but maybe a majority of Asmodians are at work or school the day, or just don't feel like being on a day of a raid boss for the Elyos reducing the number of Asmodians to 1000-1200 of course in truth it would be maybe 1500? because we can't tell exactly on many will be on though and even if they were all on I doubt they would all appear at a siege because some might want to level, farm, craft.

If their are 10 castles in a balanced or unbalanced server one side WILL ALWAYS have more castles because they happen to have a advanced guild with organized players and elite gear and weapons and the race with less castles don't, a flawed point to pull up.

Originally Posted by Calindor

If you go on a server related L2 forum, half the freaking topics have something to do with server balance...the difference in L2 is that when one side is really strong, other people can group up to defeat them, or that side will simply break up for the purpose of competition...when your entire faction is outnumbered there is NOTHING you can do.

Once again you have proven my point when one faction is outnumbered by more people appearing in the area for open PvP, raid boss, or castle raid despite unbalanced or balanced because more people on one side wants to farm or something and not show up there is NOTHING you can do, there for restricting a server or race choice is absolutely unnecessary.

Originally Posted by Calindor

and also i dont know what other people are planning to do. Im starting on a server with my clan from aion's launch/OB, and i intend to stay there. I dont plan to move around server to server on my own seeking one that suits me. I stay with my clan, and a clan isnt going to do much if they have to organize server transfers all the time.

I think you do plan to move around, because if they have a restriction on that server after a majority of your guild joins your going to switch servers or play the other race because you use them as a refer your supporting the unbalance in that server will makes most of your posts void.

[Calindor]

I have played on 2 different WoW servers with bad balances...the one i currently play on (as horde) estimated a 10:3 ratio of horde to alliance.

and the one i used to play on like 12+ months ago (when BG was with your server only)...the ppl on WoW forums said the horde had to wait like 60 minutes to enter a BG, while the ally at most waited like 10 mins, because there were far more horde online trying to get in BG.




in a balanced or unbalanced server there will always be groups of people stronger and better than others...that is completely seperate. If there is a battle during a war and it ends up being 100 vs 40 men, sure the 40 men could be more skilled and end up winning, but the 100 men could just as easily be more skilled. Saying one side might have better/more active players or stronger clans is a competely seperate issue that has nothing to do with the amount of people in each faction, they could just as easily be on the side with more people or less people.

Asmodians have to goto work too, saying one side is at work while the other is in peak activity is foolish.

And if both sides have an even amount of people, one side being stronger will not give them more castles, because thats what the balaur are there for...to help out the weaker side. But if one side has a lot less people, they simply dont have the numbers to control castles even if the balaur help them.

Originally Posted by kentaro

I think you do plan to move around, because if they have a restriction on that server after a majority of your guild joins your going to switch servers or play the other race because you use them as a refer your supporting the unbalance in that server will makes most of your posts void.

bigtime lulz

[Kentaro]

Originally Posted by Calindor

I have played on 2 different WoW servers with bad balances...the one i currently play on (as horde) estimated a 10:3 ratio of horde to alliance.

Originally Posted by Calindor

and the one i used to play on like 12+ months ago (when BG was with your server only)...the ppl on WoW forums said the horde had to wait like 60 minutes to enter a BG, while the ally at most waited like 10 mins, because there were far more horde online trying to get in BG.

I've played alliance and switched to horde while it was BG with your server onlyof course the horde were out number the alliance because a majority of the alliance players were immature and childish and the alliance on my server where the type I mentioned before the good ol' fashion "Your on your own" when it comes to fighting horde, though even as a horde I never had to wait more than 20 minutes for a BG never a hour.

Originally Posted by Calindor

in a balanced or unbalanced server there will always be groups of people stronger and better than others...that is completely seperate. If there is a battle during a war and it ends up being 100 vs 40 men, sure the 40 men could be more skilled and end up winning, but the 100 men could just as easily be more skilled. Saying one side might have better/more active players or stronger clans is a competely seperate issue that has nothing to do with the amount of people in each faction, they could just as easily be on the side with more people or less people.

Its not a completely separate issue because it does in faction entwine to the amount of players you have on that faction side because of course both sides will have good players, but the underdog can have a majority of the better players which in essence can change the outcome of 100 vs 40 as you said, but even then if both sides were skilled or the side with 100 players could be even more skilled, but that's where the balaur come into play to even it out giving a balanced fight in a unbalanced server.

Originally Posted by Calindor

Asmodians have to goto work too, saying one side is at work while the other is in peak activity is foolish.

True both sides go to work, but a Elyos or Asmodians could have more children playing than working people who come home later than school students which will change the amount of people on at a certain time.

Originally Posted by Calindor

And if both sides have an even amount of people, one side being stronger will not give them more castles, because thats what the balaur are there for...to help out the weaker side. But if one side has a lot less people, they simply dont have the numbers to control castles even if the balaur help them.

Well, I would figure with balaur's help they would have the numbers to control castles, because castle sieges probably will be only during the weekend at a certain time frame and not everyday, every moment the balaur would play a important factor to help defend or raid a castle.

Man I feel like I'm the debate club. O.o

[Calindor]

haha yeah, not many debates are this long, partially beacuse i'm stubborn lol.

but my point is you cant control which side has people going to school when, or which side has more skilled players, its completely random and it could just eas easily be either side whether they have more or less people...What you can control is the amount of people on each side, and having them even can ONLY make it more balanced.

[Kentaro]

Originally Posted by Calindor

haha yeah, not many debates are this long, partially beacuse i'm stubborn lol.

but my point is you cant control which side has people going to school when, or which side has more skilled players, its completely random and it could just eas easily be either side whether they have more or less people...What you can control is the amount of people on each side, and having them even can ONLY make it more balanced.

Your right, you can't control which side has the people going to school, the side that has people going to work, or which side has the most skilled players I'll admit that, but making a restriction could hurt the server even if causes balance, because by forcing people to join only one side your making it even more random on which type of players that side gets, which could cause more skilled or less skilled players or players who work more than others having less time for the game or young children who are on the game constantly, which could and probably will effect the community within that race in a good or bad way.