Kill Stealing and Experience gain

[Anuxinamoon]

I wonder what, if any measures have put in to deter kill stealing?

I recently started playing cabal and noticed its free for all but everytime you hit you gain exp. So even if someone KS you and nijas your kill via final blow, at least you got some exp from the mob. Every other MMO that I have played (besides dofus) gave you exp at the end of a kill.

This idea was spawned from the " Anybody found it's kinda slow paced? " thread where if the fights were going to be long and almost drawn out, I would rather my exp gain be distributed in segments than as a lump sum at the end.

Now if the exp is lumped on at the end via the little pop up item window I have seen in the beta I would like to have the security that someone wont come up and ninja my kill.

Any thoughts? Or if Irisviel or Shilenne can post their imput as to what its like right now in CB2 that would be great! <3

I think its to early in the morning for me to post... I hope you can understand it '-__________-

[Zinrae]

I'm pretty sure right now it's just based on who did more damage to it. Shilenne/Irisviel have reported there is some KS'ing going on in the beta right now =\

[Disrupter]

Personally I don't like the idea of xp gains on hit, as it could easily lend itself to exploitation. Find a mob you have no business fighting in the first place, get a couple whacks in then place yourself in a situation where you can drop the threat from the mob. Be it zoning, player abilities, someone else getting a killing blow, or whatever.

The idea of gaining xp once the mob dies is an old method, but its used extensively for good reason. Overcome the challenge of the fight, reap your reward.

I absolutely hate referencing other titles of the same genre when discussing games in development, but WoW has a good system. Inflict the first damage to a target and its tied to you. The amount of experience you gain when it dies is directly relevant to how much damage you or others in your party inflicted to it. If you 'claim' the mob and someone comes by and one shots it, you don't really get a whole lot of xp.

Only gaining xp and loot from a killshot would be absolute folly if thats a road any serious developer would consider.

[Fishy McFish]

Originally Posted by Zinrae

I'm pretty sure right now it's just based on who did more damage to it. Shilenne/Irisviel have reported there is some KS'ing going on in the beta right now =

Maybe someone should make a suggestion for mob claiming.

[Endrance]

Mob claiming has to be implemented in any MMORPG that's supposed to be good, period.

[Destrado]

Originally Posted by Endrance

Mob claiming has to be implemented in any MMORPG that's supposed to be good, period.

I agree. Fighting a tough mob and spending time, mana/health, and potentially money on it only to have it stolen away from you at the last second is absolutely infuriating. Maybe one of our beta testers could talk about the way the claim system works? Or if they already have, does anyone have a link?

[Kattrina]

Originally Posted by Disrupter

Personally I don't like the idea of xp gains on hit, as it could easily lend itself to exploitation. Find a mob you have no business fighting in the first place, get a couple whacks in then place yourself in a situation where you can drop the threat from the mob. Be it zoning, player abilities, someone else getting a killing blow, or whatever.

The idea of gaining xp once the mob dies is an old method, but its used extensively for good reason. Overcome the challenge of the fight, reap your reward.

I absolutely hate referencing other titles of the same genre when discussing games in development, but WoW has a good system. Inflict the first damage to a target and its tied to you. The amount of experience you gain when it dies is directly relevant to how much damage you or others in your party inflicted to it. If you 'claim' the mob and someone comes by and one shots it, you don't really get a whole lot of xp.

Only gaining xp and loot from a killshot would be absolute folly if thats a road any serious developer would consider.

Actually, that wasn't WoW's system. I know because I powerleveled my family a lot by finding out exactly how the exp system worked.

If you "tag" a mob, then it's yours, and when it dies, the exp is divided amongst your party members. If an outside force comes and attacks your mob and the mob would not have yielded any exp for the player (Gray mob in WoW, Too weak to be worthwhile for FFXI), then exp is severely reduced (And I mean severely).

However, if the mob would have yielded experience for the outside force that attacks it, then there is no exp penalty.

I'd take my family's level 40 alts to a place with lvl 55 elite mobs, have then tag it, then I'd murder it with my epic gear. They earned exp as if they had solo'd a 55 elite mob at lvl 40. They'd earn something like 600 exp per kill, and 1200 exp if they were rested.


I don't really care what kind of system they use for exp in Aion as long as it works. The only problem I see with your kills being a percent of the damage you do is for classes like healers or support classes. Sometimes, no one needs heals for an encounter because of perfect dodges or whatever. Does that mean for that mob the healer gets nothing while the assassin is still getting excellent exp?

If the percentage means that the whole party shares exp for the amount of party damage they do, then I think that's a fantastic system.

[Rathi04]

Originally Posted by Kattrina

I don't really care what kind of system they use for exp in Aion as long as it works. The only problem I see with your kills being a percent of the damage you do is for classes like healers or support classes.

Thats basically how I feel about it. I've always liked helping out lower level friends if at all possible. The Old EQ2 system at release was too strict, I like WoW's though.

[Otium]

Originally Posted by Endrance

Mob claiming has to be implemented in any MMORPG that's supposed to be good, period.

I wouldn't go that far but, yeah, it should be implemented.

[Disrupter]

Originally Posted by Kattrina

Actually, that wasn't WoW's system. I know because I powerleveled my family a lot by finding out exactly how the exp system worked.

I think you misunderstand what I wrote, as you pretty much just expanded on my statement. And I know, because sadly, I have 7 or 8 max level characters in that game. If someone comes by and one shots your mob, its quite obviously not at their level, thus, not a whole lot of xp.

Back to xp based on damage inflicted however. This would only be a relevant system if anyone outside the party can also engage your claimed mob in combat. If one party tags a mob, and another party attempts to attack it after that fact, can they? Also, obviously xp would be split amongst the group. Punishing healers and support classes for being healers and support classes would be ridiculous.

Either way Aion is already using a system, original or borrowed from elsewhere. We will have to wait and hope someone sheds some light on it. Although from previous posts here, it does seem killstealing is a concern with it currently.

[Kaldur]

Mob claiming is a must with an option to "call for help", making the mob open to "public" attack.

[Frein]

Originally Posted by Kaldur

Mob claiming is a must with an option to "call for help", making the mob open to "public" attack.

I don't think you should have to "call for help" (I take it you're talking about FFXI) to make the mob attackable by others. In woW if you attack and kill a tagged mob you don't get exp or drops (that goes to the one who claimed) regardless of how much damage you dealt.

[Disrupter]

Originally Posted by Frein

I don't think you should have to "call for help" (I take it you're talking about FFXI) to make the mob attackable by others.

I always found that process clunky in the sense if you need outside help, you essentially need it yesterday. Not to mention if you accidentally hit that button (and its quite easy with an equally clunky UI) you forfeit all rights to any xp and any loot. This system works great in a competition heavy environment where camping that one mob for hours is your sole pursuit, but I think its more a relic of the past and hope to not witness any future incarnations of it.

It is not without its benefits (doesn't allow hundreds of players to engage a single mob) but they mostly help prevent exploitation.

[Anuxinamoon]

Originally Posted by Disrupter

Personally I don't like the idea of xp gains on hit, as it could easily lend itself to exploitation. Find a mob you have no business fighting in the first place, get a couple whacks in then place yourself in a situation where you can drop the threat from the mob. Be it zoning, player abilities, someone else getting a killing blow, or whatever.

Hmm perhaps it could be based on a ratio of Damage done : Exp given. The more damage you do the more exp you get. If your fighting a mob thats too high for you, you do crap all damage and thus get weak exp.

Bosses would give the same if not a slight increase in the ratio it just that they
A). Have more HP so more exp gained.
B). get better lootz

I always found that process clunky in the sense if you need outside help, you essentially need it yesterday.

I totally agree. A good way is just to un-target and have a timer. If un-targeted for 5 or more seconds mob becomes free for all.

Flyff had a weird system which was really good but also annoying at times. Where once someone has locked onto a mob, If you tried to attack it a small notify in the chat window would tell you it does not belong to you.
You cant attack, you cant cast skills, you just stand there looking like an idiot.
It doesn't help when your a melee class in a group of hard mobs and your try to attack one but a mage targeted it first. You just stand there for half a second before you realize its lost. Go run to another mob.

[Rathi04]

My expirences with the "call for help" system in FFXI was pretty bad. Camping the emperor in the dunes, a handful of times a lowbie would tag him then call for help to spit everyone camping him. Was quite annoying.