Soulshots in Aion

[eVenom]

Money sinks should exist in mmo's, simply because the economy may be come unfavorable. I'm not exdperienced with economy stuff, so I can't say "Aion's economy will fail if money sinks are not introduced!" or anything like that.

Crafting and stigmas may make holes in people's pockets already, and I dislike the dependence of using SS all the time. Possibly if they were very rare and only obtainable by drops, that'd be quite nice. So you could use them in raids or possible pvp when you need them, but not be openly available.

So giving people the option of using them is good, but not making them readily available kinda conflicts with that. Either way, I'm sure they know what they're doing, and we'll just have to see what they come up with. But bet to see them in Aion; available to the masses or not.

[Fleiva]

Originally Posted by knite16

I can agree with this. I dislike SS, but if they have to be in the game, please please make them PvE ONLY.

+PvP damage will lead to unbalance as the rich will be stocked on them and the casual player will not giving the casual player much less of a chance to win without farming money.



And for Flevia and those who feel SS are a good money sink, think of it this way: If they are necessary to the point of people farming mobs for cash, then is it really an effective money sink? People from L2 have said they had to spend a good amount of time just farming adena to be able to pay for their SS. Farming they wouldn't have done were there no SS, so while it does sink money for some, others generate it just to sink it. Doesn't really work well that way.

People in L2 had to pay dwarves in order to get soulshots, dwarves knew the ammounts of money high level people might have, and they overpriced SS, if you give the entire control of a money sink to a small part of the community, there won't be competence, people are greedy always.

And I'm not understanding the last part of your post, are you talking about crafters? Others generate it? Sorry, but where have you read that about Aion's soulshots?

[Ipmia]

+PvP damage will lead to unbalance as the rich will be stocked on them and the casual player will not giving the casual player much less of a chance to win without farming money.

yes right because in a game with weapon enchatments , stigmas , stones , the SS usage gona make a huge difference indeed.

[TheLarch]

Personally i like the idea of SS in Aion, that is the tweaked image of SS that appeared in my mind as i read various articles about Aion.

They would be something like:
-10%+- damage/cast speed/attack speed buff on use
-usable in both pve and pvp with autocast naturally ^^

There are a few reason i think this would benefit the game as a whole.

First of the money sink it provides for hardcore players that will tend to use them more often should help keep the economy balanced for more casual players as Fleiva nicely explained a few times before :P .

They would only represent a slight buff to dps, which would probably make their use selective. Used mostly on hard encounters in dungeons and pvp, which scale in frequency as you level making this the perfect tool for solving inflation difficulties. I liked the comparison a poster before me made with WoW raids and armor repair costs.

Assuming a wow-like profession system they would be the main source of income for some of the more obscure professions (comparable to mana oils in wow for enchanters say) thus serving as another tool to make every profession a viable choice.

[knite16]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

And I'm not understanding the last part of your post, are you talking about crafters? Others generate it? Sorry, but where have you read that about Aion's soulshots?

I am talking about people who take time to specifically farm gold so they can sink it into SS, which is not really a sink at all in L2s case because it goes to a player.

In Aion, it would be farm qina for the specific purpose of buying SS (server generates money).
Buy SS from an NPC (server removes money)

So if I plan that 1000 SS are going to cost me 100k qina and go and farm 100k qina, there is no sink because the server generated and took away the money.

Now, I understand that not everyone will farm and some will use their money reserves, but for many this will be the case.

Originally Posted by Ipmia

yes right because in a game with weapon enchantments , stigmas , stones , the SS usage gona make a huge difference indeed.

If it raises your damage as it did in L2, yes, yes it will. None of us know what "10 points" means for Aion. If a weapon is 100 damage, it turns into 110? is 10 points 10%? Both are significant enough to affect PvP negatively UNLESS you spend your money on a consumable just to compete.

[kebrus]

after so many good news... a bad one... SS sucked at L2 and they will surely suck in Aion... there are so many negative points i can't really understand why they did even think about adding them to Aion...

actually i can't really think about one positive thing about them...

[Fleiva]

Originally Posted by knite16

I am talking about people who take time to specifically farm gold so they can sink it into SS, which is not really a sink at all in L2s case because it goes to a player.

In Aion, it would be farm qina for the specific purpose of buying SS (server generates money).
Buy SS from an NPC (server removes money)

So if I plan that 1000 SS are going to cost me 100k qina and go and farm 100k qina, there is no sink because the server generated and took away the money.

Now, I understand that not everyone will farm and some will use their money reserves, but for many this will be the case.

It's not like if you were going to stop logging in or killing mobs just cause there aren't soulshots to spend the money in, you would still do those 100k qina aprox. wether there are SS or not, now, I prefer if you spend them on SS instead of spending them on raw materials overpricing them for new players.

Originally Posted by knite16

If it raises your damage as it did in L2, yes, yes it will. None of us know what "10 points" means for Aion. If a weapon is 100 damage, it turns into 110? is 10 points 10%? Both are significant enough to affect PvP negatively UNLESS you spend your money on a consumable just to compete.

We all have seen videos with the numbers floating over monster heads, haven't we? Ask New Satan about what "they add 10 damage only" means.

Really, people whinning about soulshots are going to have a hard time whenever they find all the weapon upgrades and dps boost features this game will offer, unless they are just whinning cause they weren't able to afford SS in a grindy game called L2.

[BahamutKaiser]

I don't know why people go through the trouble of trying to find acceptable ways to fit bad mechanics into a game, if it sucks, come up with something else, gee, how brilliant.

I don't mind that their are rare bits or something obscure that gives an advantage to the few people who work or otherwise work to make money to pay for it, but making rare consumables is the worst sort of timesink. And I can only accept rare and advantagous equipment and such as long as the game is tactical enough for a person to win based on technique and play reguardless of equipment.

Beside, what is the point of trying to fit something stupid from another game into Aion when you have Divine Powers, you'd be better off offering potions which give you quick DP and utilize special effects already in the game. It never ceases to boil me when players suggest anything and everything they copped off another game just because they are used to it, not because it is good!

[knite16]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

It's not like if you were going to stop logging in or killing mobs just cause there aren't soulshots to spend the money on, you would still do those 100k qina approx. whether there are SS or not, now, I prefer if you spend them on SS instead of spending them on raw materials overpricing them for new players.

I'm talking end game here. When grinding is no longer required and your game day consists of raiding and/or PvP.

Eventually, buying SS will deplete your cash reserve if you're not refilling it, forcing you to have to kill mobs specifically for the money to buy more or be left in the dust when it comes to PvP.

L2's SS system is horrible and that's all we really have to base Aion's on at the moment. If you can't understand why people are upset about the mention of SS in Aion, then you're a different kind of gamer than us.

The only info we have is from a low-level beta tester, so keep that in mind, but expressing concern isn't a crime. And also arguing a different point a view is fine, too as Flevia is doing. Let's keep it civil and take everything with a grain of salt.

[Calindor]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

The thing about AH tax is that you won't be using it every single day, and that, endgame wise, you will be pvping, not hunting for drops, that, plus the binded items makes that money sink less effective at higher levels. The combat problem is something I can't see, do you think there was a balance problem in L2 due to soulshots? I don't think so.

There was a balance problem with spiritshots, thats why you are only allowed to use regular spiritshots in the olympiad and not regular ones....But they could have easily found another way to solve that problem.

Originally Posted by knite16

I can agree with this. I dislike SS, but if they have to be in the game, please please make them PvE ONLY.

+PvP damage will lead to unbalance as the rich will be stocked on them and the casual player will not giving the casual player much less of a chance to win without farming money.



And for Flevia and those who feel SS are a good money sink, think of it this way: If they are necessary to the point of people farming mobs for cash, then is it really an effective money sink? People from L2 have said they had to spend a good amount of time just farming adena to be able to pay for their SS. Farming they wouldn't have done were there no SS, so while it does sink money for some, others generate it just to sink it. Doesn't really work well that way.

You have no idea how much they will cost, how readily available they are. In L2 there are only 2 times when its hard to get soulshots, when you first begin, and sometimes at end-game level when you dont have clan support...Those are the times when a game should be hard anyway...you dont want everything handed to you on a platter when you first start, otherwise you'd think it wont be challenging.

Soulshots have a long re-use time in Aion, the strategy behind them may be using them at the right time in a PvP, saving them in PvE when you are low on HP to kill a mob faster...maybe in PvP you want to take a cleric down so all the DD's in your party activate the soulshot and go straight for an enemy Cleric or something.




Getting gear should never be a monkey sink. Having gear and lvl's should be something you do to enjoy the other aspects of the game....it shouldnt be the means to the game itself.

Originally Posted by Fleiva

The thing about AH tax is that you won't be using it every single day, and that, endgame wise, you will be pvping, not hunting for drops, that, plus the binded items makes that money sink less effective at higher levels. The combat problem is something I can't see, do you think there was a balance problem in L2 due to soulshots? I don't think so.

There was a balance problem with spiritshots, thats why you are only allowed to use regular spiritshots in the olympiad and not regular ones....But they could have easily found another way to solve that problem.

Originally Posted by knite16

I can agree with this. I dislike SS, but if they have to be in the game, please please make them PvE ONLY.

+PvP damage will lead to unbalance as the rich will be stocked on them and the casual player will not giving the casual player much less of a chance to win without farming money.



And for Flevia and those who feel SS are a good money sink, think of it this way: If they are necessary to the point of people farming mobs for cash, then is it really an effective money sink? People from L2 have said they had to spend a good amount of time just farming adena to be able to pay for their SS. Farming they wouldn't have done were there no SS, so while it does sink money for some, others generate it just to sink it. Doesn't really work well that way.

You have no idea how much they will cost, how readily available they are. In L2 there are only 2 times when its hard to get soulshots, when you first begin, and sometimes at end-game level when you dont have clan support...Those are the times when a game should be hard anyway...you dont want everything handed to you on a platter when you first start, otherwise you'd think it wont be challenging.

Soulshots have a long re-use time in Aion, the strategy behind them may be using them at the right time in a PvP, saving them in PvE when you are low on HP to kill a mob faster...maybe in PvP you want to take a cleric down so all the DD's in your party activate the soulshot and go straight for an enemy Cleric or something.




Getting gear should never be a monkey sink. Having gear and lvl's should be something you do to enjoy the other aspects of the game....it shouldnt be the means to the game itself.

[Typecast]

Originally Posted by Frein

This is just plain wrong. Other items can never be too cheap as their prices are always determined by what the players are willing to pay for them. If there is too much money circulating in the system, prices will go up, it's called inflation. This is assuming the economy is a player driven one where players rarely buy from NPCs.

SS in aion are sold by npc's... so out goes that theory. In L2 the price was set by the dwarfs, this is not the case in aion.

[Irisviel]

I personally prefer no soulshot way :\ like WOW... it's so stupid that it's almost impossible to hunt and pk people with out any soulshots in lineage 2.

[Calindor]

Originally Posted by Irisviel

I personally prefer no soulshot way : like WOW... it's so stupid that it's almost impossible to hunt and pk people with out any soulshots in lineage 2.

Stuff like that hast happened for 5 years.

[Otium]

If Aion's SS system will work as L2's one, then i'm all against it. It wasn't a money sink. It was just a time sink, where you had to make your own dwarf so you didn't have to spend tons of money in such a stupid item that basically doesn't affect anything in game but limitting your gameplay. Everyone uses them, everyone gets damage boost, ends up being the same. But when it comes to carry them all, you'll have weight problems in your character and you can't grind a place properly since you run out of them pretty fast.

However, I don't really think NCsoft will copy paste this all to Aion. They will, most likely, work hard to come up with a new system for soulshots. If, for example, soulshots come with a huge re-use, then it might be an interesting thing since you have to carefully plan when you're going to waste your extra-damage attack.

Overall, soulshots are somehow useless and they tend to complicate something that is quite simple.