Soulshots in Aion

[Heinel]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

You're assuming these things:

1) Soulshots in Aion truly make a difference in damage per second.
2) Soulshots in Aion will be expensive even for high level people.
3) The income from high level mobs will be quite low.
4) There will be a lot of things to spend money on once you are high level.

I'm playing with the facts only, your argument isn't valid.

False. My assumptions exhaust possibilities.

You're arguing of a hypothetical situation where the spirit stones or whatever they're called will serve it's purpose of a gold sink while retaining it's "uselessness" in terms of practical usage.

Such a situation cannot logically happen. Either it will be deemed by the masses as useless and un-touched, or it will be deemed by the masses as useful and hence required.

[Gravity]

Heinel has a very valid point. There isn't going to be an in-between.

It'd be better off to trash the SS idea and provide a money sink that won't enhance pvp performance.

Unless of course, the SS would be something like, "Increases damage against monsters by 10." Or something so it's only useful in PvE.

[hogo]

Originally Posted by Endrance

Ok, since I don't get the whole point of your post I'm gonna ask that: Why would we want Soulshots again? What else did they do, other than the stuff I've stated (since you did read the whole thread you should know about my post)? Cause I couldn't notice anything else for crap. Soulshots are completely unnecessary. But maybe I'm wrong for some quantum time warp reason or something. So please tell me.

yeah sorry forgot to write pros
so here they are
1. just look how cool soulshot animation looks:
AionSource.com - PhotoPlog - Animation when applying soulshot

2. soulshots could increase your dmg and so reduce time needed to kill mobs and that is a good thing!


Like i said i don't like idea of soulshots being as a main money sink unless such sink will prove to be necessary in this game. Shilenne or Irisviel once said somewhere that money is not a problem in Aion so yeah atm i think soulshots could be that necessary money sink but oh well we will see. No one knows how the game will look like and how everything will work after 35lvl

[Fleiva]

Originally Posted by Frein

You can sell the crafting materials/gear you get so you don't need direct money drops. It slows down the rate at which money is introduced into the system so money sinks do not need to be as severe.

There are major flaws on that concept, I can notice these, at a first sight:

Who would buy those materials? Obviously, high level characters would have a hard time making money, so they would make alt chars in order to get them, so, here we go, those who have more alt chars will pay the biggest quantities for those materials, knowing that, people will always approach those potential clients.

And the second one, the money doesn't dissapear from the market, it will just change hands. People need to pay to NPCs in order to advoid inflation, and we all know already how inflation affects newcomers, don't we?

Originally Posted by Heinel

False. My assumptions exhaust possibilities.

You're arguing of a hypothetical situation where the spirit stones or whatever they're called will serve it's purpose of a gold sink while retaining it's "uselessness" in terms of practical usage.

Such a situation cannot logically happen. Either it will be deemed by the masses as useless and un-touched, or it will be deemed by the masses as useful and hence required.

I didn't say useless, I said luxury. Something that will speed up slightly your progression with alt chars and that will be used for the high level content (RvR). And how are those possibilities, when everything we know is that Spirit stones or whatever are expensive for level 20 players (new satan), sold from npcs and make a minor difference in damage per second.

Originally Posted by Gravity

Heinel has a very valid point. There isn't going to be an in-between.

It'd be better off to trash the SS idea and provide a money sink that won't enhance pvp performance.

Unless of course, the SS would be something like, "Increases damage against monsters by 10." Or something so it's only useful in PvE.

You need a money sink on pvp, call it soulshots, potions, or whatever you please. Monsters will keep giving money, epic bosses will keep giving items, you need something there in order to prevent inflation, or high level characters will pass their time buying low level stuff increasing the prices for everyone.

Seriously, i've studied this issue before thoughtfuly, and im sure Aion counts with a team of economists who would lecture us like if we were kindergarden kids.

[Typecast]

I posted this in a different thread too but its better to continue the discussion here:

I actually like the idea of soulshots in aion.

You dont HAVE to use them there optional.

In lineage II you pretty much had to use them because the grind would be EXTREMELY long if you wanted to level without them.
Since the main xp gain in aion will be from quests instead of mass grinding you will need allot less SS, they can be used when your in a pinch for example.

Dont see them as a necessity but as a bonus boost of strength when needed.
You cant compare the SS concept in aion with L2.

I got the responce it was a necessity for pvp, I say yes IF you can use them for pvp. Even if you need them for pvp.. so what?

you ppl complaining about this are probebly just lazy and don't want to spend any time/effort to get certain stuff in the game. SS will be a drain on your money but thats a good thing imo. If the SS don't drain your money something else will.. They would have to make the money drops less or the gear more expensive to keep things balanced out.

If they dont the game will be too easy, you guys need to look at the big picture.

ps the SS look good too.. I don't really see a downside to them.

If you had enough money in a few weeks to buy max lv gear you would whine that the game is to easy. Be happy ncsoft takes the time to think these kind of things out, you guys clearly don't.

[Heinel]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

I didn't say useless, I said luxury. Something that will speed up slightly your progression with alt chars and that will be used for the high level content (RvR). And how are those possibilities, when everything we know is that Spirit stones or whatever are expensive for level 20 players (new satan), sold from npcs and make a minor difference in damage per second.

You're not addressing the issue. You can call it uselessness, luxury, or whatever, it's all semantics. In the end, there's either will use and will not use.

I come from games that are centered on competitive aspects, I know where the bottomline is. If it is attainable without you getting banned, and gives you a useful degree of advantage, then it's a requirement, no exceptions. Why do you think all the elite guilds need vent and mic? Vent does give the guild a significant margin in terms of advantage, but the mic, not so much. I tell this from experience, 9 times out of 10, a mic is unnecessary for non-leaders. Only the group leader needs to talk, the random chattering from other members are just noise. However because of that 1 time out of 10 that a member might have to report something to the leader, that mic become a requirement for every single member. It's not like it's a big deal, but an advantage is an advantage.

On the other hand if it does not provide a useful degree of advantage, then it provides negative value, because it costs in game currency and hence prevents you from getting that top unique +10 gear. In that context, then you can't even say it is luxury, it is useless, and serves no purpose other than to waste people's time and effort in some trivial, insignificant manner.

[Fleiva]

In competitive terms it should be a requirement indeed, notice the "will be used for the high level content (RvR)" part of my post.

Then again, what's so bad about those requirements in pvp? Considering how the endgame content is focused on RvR, sieges, etc...what's so wrong about having a money sink? That it's required?

As I said, and I'll repeat, money sinks on endgame content is always welcome, if you don't notice, you haven't looked at the whole picture.

About your edit:

Unique +10 gear is meant to be binded, money isn't involved there, and you must understand the money sink concept properly, and its consequences, before stating facts like those. Please, don't make me go again into inflation, its quite obvious that you aren't considering it and I do not want to explain it again.

[Heinel]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

In competitive terms it should be a requirement indeed, notice the "will be used for the high level content (RvR)" part of my post.

Then again, what's so bad about those requirements in pvp? Considering how the endgame content is focused on RvR, sieges, etc...what's so wrong about having a money sink? That it's required?

As I said, and I'll repeat, money sinks on endgame content is always welcome, if you don't notice, you haven't looked at the whole picture.

About your edit:

Unique +10 gear is meant to be binded, money isn't involved there, and you must understand the money sink concept properly, and its consequences, before stating facts like those. Please, don't make me go again into inflation, its quite obvious that you aren't considering it and I do not want to explain it again.

If you've read my previous replies to your own post you'll notice my stance is not one against the concept of money sink, but since you apparently did not, I'll quote myself.

Originally Posted by Heinel

I'm all for gold sinks, but if it comes at the cost of [imbalanced /edit for clarity] gameplay, then the game fails. Period.

Basically you were trying to argue the validity of soulshots by fabricating a conveniently short-sighted counter argument and proceed to attack such argument. It's really a waste of time.

You also misunderstood the +10 gear concept. The gear themselves aren't a money sink, the process of attaining them are. The system of salvaging the enchanting material (mana stones?) is based on chance, if it fails then the money of the salvage kit as well as the potential money that would've been gotten by selling the salvaged gear is sunk. Then during the process of enchanting there's another opportunity to sink money when the enchanting failed, and decreases the enchantment value on the equipment. Stop talking like you're the only one who knows how the game works.

[manaia36]

Originally Posted by jameinkaiser

I think there's a slight misunderstanding here. 'Soulshots' in Aion are not really comparable to their counterparts in L2. In L2, soulshots were a 'necessity' in a sense, while in Aion, they're more of an 'optional' commodity (hence the high price) that one does not HAVE to use to hunt efficiently. It's more suitable for PvP and such occasions. Soulshots in L2 were monopolised by a race, while no such concept exists in Aion. To point out a couple more flaws, in L2, one had to have top gear to be able to kill mobs at an efficient rate, compounded with a hyperinflated economy which made it near impossible to get anywhere or even level up unless you did your daily grind to accumulate enough dough for teleportation and supplies (potions, soulshots...). I really don't think soul stones/shards (영혼석 - Aion's name for 'soulshots') will play the role of money sinks in the game, seeing how their role is designed to be much more diminutive than their counterparts in L2.

I am kinda glad to hear that in Aion the Soulshots are more optional. In Lineage they were a pain as I never seemed to have enough Adena to buy any shots and hunting without them wasn't that fun at times :/ But since they are optional in Aion that's great !

[Fleiva]

Then suggest something better, but consider these factors:

It has to take money away from the market, trades player to player are not money sinks.
It must give a continous bonus, there must be no risk involved, something with risk will not be consumed just like that, it cannot have any cons for players who use them or people will hesitate.
It has to be consumed daily, you earn money daily, you have to spend money daily.
Once you have everything you ever wanted gear wise, it must be necessary still. You cannot stop spending money once you have everything "+10" and "unique".

And now, tell me.

How do soulshots affect balance? It's something NPCs are selling, it is something everybody can afford once they are high level, it is something that adds a slight bonus in damage to both parts of the balance.

[Heinel]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

Then suggest something better, but consider these factors:

It has to take money away from the market, trades player to player are not money sinks.
It must give a continous bonus, there must be no risk involved, something with risk will not be consumed just like that, it cannot have any cons for players who use them or people will hesitate.
It has to be consumed daily, you earn money daily, you have to spend money daily.
Once you have everything you ever wanted gear wise, it must be necessary still. You cannot stop spending money once you have everything "+10" and "unique".

And now, tell me.

How do soulshots affect balance? It's something NPCs are selling, it is something everybody can afford once they are high level, it is something that adds a slight bonus in damage to both parts of the balance.

Interestingly enough I also posted a suggestion that maybe the next suggestion cycle should stick to the theme of coming up with new gold sinks, that was a couple pages back. Thanks for re-inventing the wheel.

As for balance, a whole bunch of people including myself has already talked about it, there's like at least one post explaining it on every single page. I'm not going to quote myself again, you'll have to find the answers yourself.

PS: Oh and I can't wait for the suggestion cycles, so I'm going to just shamelessly rip the only idea I liked from AoC. Player build cities!

In AoC, PvE-centric-player-owned cities are built in instances apparently, so there's no "running out of places" or "super cramped maps". That's one of the more extreme gold sinks that the game can pursue. (TY to the necro'ed housing thread, lol)

[Fleiva]

Originally Posted by Heinel

Interestingly enough I also posted a suggestion that maybe the next suggestion cycle should stick to the theme of coming up with new gold sinks, that was a couple pages back. Thanks for re-inventing the wheel.

As for balance, a whole bunch of people including myself has already talked about it, there's like at least one post explaining it on every single page. I'm not going to quote myself again, you'll have to find the answers yourself.

I wanted you to state a suggestion, cause I'm 100% sure you would not come with something better, unless it being extremely similar. I did read about it, didn't try reinventing anything.

And no, nobody states why soulshots break balance, people say you will be in disadvantage if you don't use them?

I reply: Why wouldn't you use them? Is there anything better to spend money on continously once you're stacked? If so, please, lecture me.

This is the same over and over, everybody comes with words but nobody comes with a single argument to diss the soulshots concept of Aion.

[Dye]

I think soulshot is a good idea i came from l2 and i know they arent going to make soulshot like l2. In in l2 it was a gold sink from lvl 1 and it was required. In aion im sure everyone will spam soulshot at the max lvl but it wont be required to lvl up with. In l2 it was just grind no quests so it was needed. With all the quests that give exp and money soulshot wont be needed as much lvling up. Think about how repairs in wow is a gold sink. Gold repairs in wow werent an issue or expensive lvling up but became a gold sink. Soulshot will probably be like that in aion.

[SoraNashimi]

I wouldn't mind Soulshots, I just don't want them to be a necesity, and seeing as they aren't, good. But I don't want them to be available in PVP either because it will Turn into a Necesity PVP wise...

Just as long as they disable it in PVP, or have a decently long cooldown =0, or something...