Soulshots in Aion

[Heinel]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

You said my comparision between weapons and soulshots was laughable, Ive proven it as undenieable, to the point where you trimmed my post in order to accomplish a witty comment. Both are things that would improve your performance during a battle.

Consumables are a continous money sink and it helps against inflation on the market, I don't see anything bad on that concept.

And sorry that my bable, eh...soulshots are already in game and will be there for the release unlike what you're asking for.

Actually, I'm not that sorry.

I like that you didn't bother coming up with new stuff anymore, running dry so soon?

And I've already pointed out the flaw in weapon vs soulshot, it's both immersion and function. Basically, apples and oranges kind of difference. You just missed it. I think it's only safe when replies to your posts are only one sentence, and not more than eight words long. Something about not enough attention span.

Edit: Frein! Too many sentences! He can't process it >.<

[Frein]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

Some people will feel the money spent in those passes is a necesity in order to improve. The AH tax is indeed a good money sink, but then again what's the % spent on those out of your monthly income? inflation.

The tax % is obviously lower than your earning rate, but most of the money you earn comes from other players, so I'd guess many players in fact make more money disappear than appear.

Inflation is something you can never truly remove, it will always be there. The goal is to get it to a manageable level where it doesn't mess with your savings. If you find yourself constantly investing into items in fear of your money losing its value, the inflation is too rapid, if not, you have nothing to worry about.

[Fleiva]

Originally Posted by Heinel

I like that you didn't bother coming up with new stuff anymore, running dry so soon?

Aren't you doing the same since you started talking? If you repeat the same crap over and over, there's a point i'll do the same, lets see who is more stubborn then.

Originally Posted by Heinel

And I've already pointed out the flaw in weapon vs soulshot, it's both immersion and function. Basically, apples and oranges kind of difference. You just missed it. I think it's only safe when replies to your posts are only one sentence, and not more than eight words long. Something about not enough attention span.

Both fit into the context I've been repeating for 3 posts already, both increase performance on battle, apples and oranges come from trees, even being different they have some similar terms, now, will your attention span realize that with this message? Or should I repeat it again to make it even more clear.

Originally Posted by Frein

The tax % is obviously lower than your earning rate, but most of the money you earn comes from other players, so I'd guess many players in fact make more money disappear than appear.

Inflation is something you can never truly remove, it will always be there. The goal is to get it to a manageable level where it doesn't mess with your savings. If you find yourself constantly investing into items in fear of your money losing its value, the inflation is too rapid, if not, you have nothing to worry about.

I can see we agree in some parts, but I can't see yet how soulshots can act negatively into that goal of removing inflation, its something that makes your weapon brighter, its something that you will consume even when decked up, its something that will speed up your alt chars leveling slightly, what's bad on them?

[Heinel]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

Both fit into the context I've been repeating for 3 posts already, both increase performance on battle, apples and oranges come from trees, even being different they have some similar terms, now, will your attention span realize that with this message? Or should I repeat it again to make it even more clear.

Since you agreed that weapons and soulshots are indeed like apples and oranges, I've proved my point. Soulshots aren't like weapons, though weapons may be kept, soulshots must be abolished.

Great compromise doesn't come easy, but better late than not at all.


Edit: previous versions of this post is void. Should've read the statement myself before posting it, lol.

[Fleiva]

Originally Posted by Heinel

Actually, I processed your content in full, unlike you, who keep skipping details.
But since you agreed that weapons and soulshots are indeed like apples and oranges, I've proved my point. Soulshots aren't like weapons, though weapons may be kept, soulshots must be abolished.

Great compromise doesn't come easy, but better late than not at all.

That looks like an extended "NO U" argument, props on making it so you don't get the "message too short" popup.

Edit: Adding a witty comment due to the lack of arguments: I like turtles.

[jameinkaiser]

sorry, i'm going to have to leave a really immature remark here.

soulshots are gay

[Pancak3s]

Originally Posted by jameinkaiser

sorry, i'm going to have to leave a really immature remark here.

soulshots are gay

^5 .

[Lennalf]

Originally Posted by Typecast

my god are your really THAT dumb?

There is such a thing as server balance and play time.

It doesnt matter if you spend your money on SS or not, it wont affect your money in the long run.

To begin, it obviously does matter if one spends money on SS. In fact, the difference is enormous. If you use SS, you will gain levels faster, which will allow you to play in harder areas sooner, which means you will get better drops sooner. Because this effect works on an exponential curve, the gap in levels (and gap in rate of income) between the two players will only continue to increase until the SS-user maxes out. If you don't buy SS, you'll have a lot of extra money relative to your current level, but it will be a much longer time before you are accruing any actual wealth. The player who uses SS will have maxed out and made up the difference in cost many times over while the non-SS player is still grinding levels.

There's also large psychological difference involved. Suppose I gave you $20, but then 5 minutes later I made you give me $10 back. You might be $10 richer overall, but it also feels like you lost $10 somehow. I don't know about you, but I'd rather just get the $10 upfront rather than get jerked around.

I won't waste my time arguing your other points, because I don't have to. It is impossible to argue that soulshots are in any way necessary for successful play time or economy balancing, as there are countless alternative solutions to these problems. If you need examples of these solutions, I suggest you look at every MMO ever created other than Lineage II. Of all of the possible mechanisms one could consider, soulshots are among the worst ever attempted.

What is currently planned for Aion is *not* the same as soulshots, but run the risk of introducing similar problems on a smaller scale because they still equate cash to damage.

Oh, and I don't appreciate being called "dumb."

[eVenom]

My god, what bad times with ss in pvp >.< I don't want them since they were needed to do good damage in the end, but w/e. If they aren't super available, then I dont care.

[Frein]

Originally Posted by Fleiva

I can see we agree in some parts, but I can't see yet how soulshots can act negatively into that goal of removing inflation, its something that makes your weapon brighter, its something that you will consume even when decked up, its something that will speed up your alt chars leveling slightly, what's bad on them?

I don't look at the SS feature from an anti-inflation perspective, I look at it from a general game design perspective. They can be used for gold sinking, but then again, lots of other, subtler things can as well. They can be used for speeding up leveling, but why not simply adjust player damage or mob HP/exp instead if leveling is too slow? If your main is rich, you can probably afford better than average gear for your alt and make him level faster that way. They can also be used to make your weapon glow, but that's merely aesthetics so the same thing could just as well be achieved trough buffs or enchantments or whatnot.

They have no real purpose, they simply exist. They're the unnecessary fifth wheel in a car that doesn't do anything but still needs to be changed every now and then. And nobody enjoys changing tires.

[Lennalf]

Why SoulShot Negatively Affects Gameplay: A Hypothetical Study

Amy and Bob are both max-level characters who go out farming. Amy is using SS, but Bob is not. Amy will kill mobs faster than Bob, giving her more drops. If the value of the extra drops is equal to the cost of the SS, then Amy and Bob both come out the same, right? Not quite.

Amy benefits in that she has a higher chance of getting a specific item to drop. However, Amy also suffers in that she will max out her inventory much more frequently, will have to sort through and sell a higher volume of junk, and overall spends a higher % of her time walking to and from town.

Bob benefits in that he can stay in the field longer. He hauls in about the same amount of net profit as Amy, but has a lower chance of getting a specific drop. He spends far less time traveling (inventory lasts longer), and more time in combat. Individual battles last longer, allowing more time to use skills and apply strategy. Bob doesn't have to worry that his investment (SS) will go to waste (bad drops), leaving him poorer than he started on any given day. Bob also has a lot less busywork.

Any serious player would feel pressured to choose to use SS like Amy, but will spend more time doing lame chores and traveling and less time in combat as a result. Bob will have a richer gaming experience, but will also be branded "noob" and will suffer a slight item farming disadvantage. Nobody wins.

If you eliminate SS altogether, then players will not have the option to use SS, but they also won't feel the obligation. The result is that players can focus their energy elsewhere, such as buying equipment, learning skills, and... well, playing the game. The game is slightly simpler, which leaves more time for polishing. Everybody wins.

Originally Posted by Frein

They have no real purpose, they simply exist. They're the unnecessary fifth wheel in a car that doesn't do anything but still needs to be changed every now and then. And nobody enjoys changing tires.

A metaphor worth repeating!

[Skold]

Previous poster wins the thread. *KO*

[Lennalf]

Originally Posted by Skold

Previous poster wins the thread. *KO*

Marry me

[Fleiva]

Originally Posted by Lennalf

Why SoulShot Negatively Affects Gameplay: A Hypothetical Study

Amy and Bob are both max-level characters who go out farming. Amy is using SS, but Bob is not. Amy will kill mobs faster than Bob, giving her more drops. If the value of the extra drops is equal to the cost of the SS, then Amy and Bob both come out the same, right? Not quite.

Amy benefits in that she has a higher chance of getting a specific item to drop. However, Amy also suffers in that she will max out her inventory much more frequently, will have to sort through and sell a higher volume of junk, and overall spends a higher % of her time walking to and from town.

Bob benefits in that he can stay in the field longer. He hauls in about the same amount of net profit as Amy, but has a lower chance of getting a specific drop. He spends far less time traveling (inventory lasts longer), and more time in combat. Individual battles last longer, allowing more time to use skills and apply strategy. Bob doesn't have to worry that his investment (SS) will go to waste (bad drops), leaving him poorer than he started on any given day. Bob also has a lot less busywork.

Any serious player would feel pressured to choose to use SS like Amy, but will spend more time doing lame chores and traveling and less time in combat as a result. Bob will have a richer gaming experience, but will also be branded "noob" and will suffer a slight item farming disadvantage. Nobody wins.

If you eliminate SS altogether, then players will not have the option to use SS, but they also won't feel the obligation. The result is that players can focus their energy elsewhere, such as buying equipment, learning skills, and... well, playing the game. The game is slightly simpler, which leaves more time for polishing. Everybody wins.


A metaphor worth repeating!

Amy has to kill 1235 mobs to level up to 50. It takes her 38 days to max out level.

Bob has to kill 1235 mobs to level up to 50. It takes him 41 days to max out level.

Both get the same ammount of money per level, but Amy has spent some in SS, Bob hasn't.

Both of them go to the abyss to pvp a bit, Amy has to stock up in SS, Bob doesn't. Bob has 1,5 millions, Amy has 600k.

Once they are level 50, they have no skills nor equipment to buy, Bob will start paying 50k for iron ore, Amy will pay 20k.

Jon installs Aion's client, goes to Elyssea and finds out iron ore costs 50k in players shops, but he is making 40k per level, so prices are unaffordable for him. He leaves the game ****ed off at the impossibility of starting due to the highly inflated economy in Aion.



Here we go, chances of getting a drop depends on how many mobs you kill, not on how fast you do it.