Soulshots in Aion

[Ipmia]

Originally Posted by Celestin

I've been watching this thread for a while and just don't really see an argument for soul shots. Lennalf is right when he says adding soul shots adds the unnecessary decision of choosing between two evils. Soul shots simply add a completely unnecessary level of complexity, especially when they add so little gameplay value. Haven't you ever heard of the KISS rule? If you want to see an increase in DPS so badly, just increase the effectiveness of weapons or abilities. Minimize the number of variables in the DPS equation. Unless of course, what you are saying is that you don't want everybody to have an increase in DPS. Just certain people, among those of which you certainly will be included. A toy for the elitists which inevitably will then everybody else to choose a metaphorical poison which still fails to improve the game.

social clothes are unnecessary, potions are unnecessary.. there is a ton of things not unnecessary yet ig you take them out the game seems like missing something.

how something well implemented that give the option to increase dmg output can it be a bad thing ?

all arguments i can read are pure speculations without even considering the infos we got about how its implemented in AION. (jamie/new_satan)

[Icarus01]

i thought stigmas and rare gear drops were going to be a money sink

the only thing i don't like about soul shots is the amount they increase damage by makes them pivotal and i don't think something so important should have an economical price

[Celestin]

Originally Posted by hogo

3)their animation looks awesome

A winning argument if I ever saw one. ****. I lost. I guess I should shuttup and go home.

But seriously, think like a designer, even just for a bit. KISS. Do you know what that stands for? Keep It Simple Stupid. Almost every great thinker of humanity has always had something to say for simplicity. So why are we purposely trying to add a useless level of complexity? It makes no sense.

The economy will grow and shrink dependent on the amount of money players have. When I began playing WoW, I bought a dagger off of AH for 20g. That was like 80% of my money. Sure when I got to a higher level, that was a significantly smaller percentage of my income, but that's not the point. Let's move to Aardwolf. Same scenario, I needed a new weapon, so I went to the barter channel and ended up getting myself a spiffy new dagger. But this time, it cost me a couple hundred thousand gold. But in the end, that was still about 60% of my money ( 20% difference because in Aardwolf, pots are much more important, but if we ignored pots, it probably would've been 80% or my money as well ).

[Ipmia]

Originally Posted by Icarus01

i thought stigmas and rare gear drops were going to be a money sink

the only thing i don't like about soul shots is the amount they increase damage by makes them pivotal and i don't think something so important should have an economical price

dont know, maybe its not a fixed amount, could be a % depending on weapon/lvl... 10 dmg isnt much but the dmg dealt doesnt seem to be huge either at the actual CB lvls. maybe our betatsters could develop more how it works in AION ?

[Celestin]

Originally Posted by hogo

that one was just one of 4... ofc you don't have any contra arguments thats why you come up with such a bs comment like this :/


since when simple means good? if i would like to play a simple game i would play wow.

Some people just prefer to use edits. But if you like to see a point by point, I can do that too.

1.) AION will probably need a money sink.
There are tons of ways to do this without adding another layer of complexity. Increase repair costs. Decrease mob drop worth. Why soul shots?

2.) Increases DPS.
There are tons of ways to do this without adding another layer of complexity. Increase overall damage. Modify buffs. Decrease mob health. Why soul shots?

3.) Awesome animation.
Oh yay. An awesome animation. Exactly what I wanted.

4.) Adds strategic elements to the game.
Whatever. In the end, everybody is going to be carrying around soul shots to not be gimped in PvP. And then of course, let's not forget that people like me will run the math and figure out the perfect number of soul shots, potions and arrows you will need for any given situation and publish it for free online. And then where's the strategy? Everybody will just copy my guide and always bring exactly the right number of soul shots into battle every time. I love to figure out this kind of stuff. And once the basic guide is down, no matter how you tweak soul shots, the original formula will only have to be tweaked to match. Patch 1.1b says soul shots fixed and within the next day, there I will be on the forums saying, accommodating recent patch changes, I am increasing the number of soul shots you should carry with you from 1000 to 1200. So I guess what you mean by strategy is google-fu.

Since when does complex mean good? Especially when the added complexity is unnecessary. And the greatest sin? Adding complexity solely to add complexity. And soul shots is adding complexity for the purpose of adding complexity. If you want to increase DPS, there is a myriad of ways you can do it without adding an additional variable to the equation. Why soul shots? Do me a favour. If complexity is your mantra, never go into software. I would hate to see a GUI you come up with.

WoW has it's complexities, but the developers have done an excellent job of abstraction which is the adding of another layer of complexity that functions to simplify the previous layer of complexity.

[Endrance]

This discussion is one of those that won't end, cause some people just don't get it.
Fact is, SS's do not add any kind of strategy to the game (how is remembering to buy them from a NPC connected to strategy?).
Fact is, the increase dmg argument is no argument in the first place, as the game could've been balanced beforehand (it's not an argument if it would still be just as good without them).

Yes, SS's do look cool, although I'd rather have a job do that kind of buff to themselves only. Or Heroes being able to use it only. Makes it kinda unique. If everyone uses them, I don't see those buffs looking cool being an argument also, cause if everyone uses them all the time, it'll get boring way too fast.
But dudes, how can't you see that in the end all SS's add to the game is that you have to farm for something that could've been left behind if the game has been balanced in the first place? There is simply no reason for SS's at all, as they add NOTHING gameplay-wise. Also, potions do add something gameplay-wise, which is to use them in the right situation (of course being unspamable). And yes, social clothes are kind of unnecessary for people who never RP.
Putting that out again, I do agree that the SS's animation looks cool (just like social clothes do), but that's not worth making people grind for it, as social clothes are bought once and SS's are something you need to regrind after you've used them. Everyone hates repetitive farming.
On the top of that, I don't see how SS's in Aion are optional, just because they cost less and do less than they did in L2. I mean, it adds damage and looks cool. People will feel like having an advantage if they have stocked them up, but more importanly, having a disadvantage not using them when fighting anything.
Of course, if they only add 10 damage and you do regulary 1k+ dmg with one attack, but still cost a bit, it won't be worth using them in PvE at all (but maybe boss fights where every bit of dmg counts).

If they take next to no effort to get and really only add 10 damage, then I don't even see a reason to discuss here, but maybe about it being overused (the animation won't look that cool anymore if everyone can use it all the time - in fact, it would be rather annoying).

Originally Posted by hogo

that one was just one of 4... ofc you don't have any contra arguments thats why you come up with such a bs comment like this :/

No. He posted that because if you even made one, this was the only "valid" argument you've made.

since when simple means good? if i would like to play a simple game i would play wow.

Eh... actually, right now I feel like giving you the same kind of answer Celestin did.


Hogo, if you make Soulshots add an extra doubleashard combo system to the game if you use them (for example, you doing more damage with combos, but combos being harder to use, cause you have to react faster or w/e), then we can talk again about the gameplay part. Right now, Soulshots do nothing but add a bit of damage and look cool, but make you farm for them, having to remember to buy them and them taking inventory space, which is crap.

[Skold]

We should just lock this thread, it's been over for a while. Most people agree, SS are bad... Now stop beating the dead horse.

[Zyuu]

No, not everyone think it's bad. There's many different opinions. Debating why soulshots isn't welcome is okay. Debating why it's nice due to economical reasons is fine too. Just try to stay on topic and stop argue as if your life depends on it

Soulshots are likely to remain in Aion. Koreans like them. How it's going to be implemented is what matters most of the time.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Zyuu

Koreans like them.

Koreans liked monotonous, repetitive grinding for generations. I doubt that it's wise to take them as reference for an objective discussion.

And there is no rational reason to have Soulshots for economical reasons at all or for any other kind of reason (again - all they do is add damage which could be balanced easily otherwise and some animation, while the negative factors such as taking away inventory space, having to buy them, farm for them clearly outweighs the positive factors). There's nothing to debate about that.
This just happens because some people are completely unable to debate objectively or admit when they're out of arguments.

[Skold]

We really need more information on soulshots to make a better arguement, all we know is A)They are in AION B) They were in L2
C) The ones you buy from a vendor add 10 damage. We don't know... 1) If there are better SS 2) How they are crafted 3) How expensive they are. I heard personally that SS will be crafted from DP, but that is only a rumor. Perhaps someone who played CB2 could enlighten us?

[Zyuu]

The reason I say Koreans like soulshots is because they have a very big influence on Aion. Noone knows the outcome yet. Aion is in a early beta right now. Everything is subject to change. Also, there's been a lot of research done, which shows that the majority of Korean players does not enjoy crazy grinding. Only a miniority enjoys it. This is why Aion is designed in a different way and if the rumors of Lineage 3 will be proven real in a couple of years, L3 will not have the insane grind that L1 and L2 did.

Give it time. Take a deep breath. Go for a walk... seriously though, it's going to be alright.

[Endrance]

I wasn't doubting that Aion won't be as asia-grinders have been in the past (if I thought like that I wouldn't be waiting for it). I know that recently there has been some research done. But in the past ten+ years, the majority of MMOs Koreans have produced were repetitive, monotonous grinders. Aion in that case, would be a first.

[knite16]

Originally Posted by Gravity

Heinel has a very valid point. There isn't going to be an in-between.

It'd be better off to trash the SS idea and provide a money sink that won't enhance pvp performance.

Unless of course, the SS would be something like, "Increases damage against monsters by 10." Or something so it's only useful in PvE.

I can agree with this. I dislike SS, but if they have to be in the game, please please make them PvE ONLY.

+PvP damage will lead to unbalance as the rich will be stocked on them and the casual player will not giving the casual player much less of a chance to win without farming money.



And for Flevia and those who feel SS are a good money sink, think of it this way: If they are necessary to the point of people farming mobs for cash, then is it really an effective money sink? People from L2 have said they had to spend a good amount of time just farming adena to be able to pay for their SS. Farming they wouldn't have done were there no SS, so while it does sink money for some, others generate it just to sink it. Doesn't really work well that way.

[Yame]

Originally Posted by Zyuu

The reason I say Koreans like soulshots is because they have a very big influence on Aion.

Oh, how I hate being reminded of this!