Why not grind and questing?

[Firestar_Jes]

Originally Posted by Calindor

I still dont see the difference, if the XP/time is the same as nonstop grinding as is is for 75% running from point A to B and 25% grinding quests, then it would still all be balanced, it would just give you a choice, and im sure a combo of both would be the best, and the skilled players would find out how to get up the fastest.

Actually i do think you are right, and i probably didn't get that across, my point was that it isn't easy to balance it.
I agree that a combo of both would the best.

[KatzuyAion]

Originally Posted by Terpsichore

Options? Yes.

Same reward? No, raiding/party dungeons take alot more dedication than just grinding or questing.

I think Raiding should be not be over-rewarded. Because as you say its a huge timesink (atleast if it has anything to do with WoW's raiding) .

All types of players should be rewarded with the same quality rewards. so we don't have a community fighting against each other, defending their playstyles.

If from the beggining the rewards are similar for different types of playing = most of people happy.

[BahamutKaiser]

I can understand grinding yielding the same or more exp than a quest, but quests are very circimustantial, especially if your have to explore or complete puzzles, but the idea that your going to get the same exp simply slaying as you would with a slaying quest is really silly, obviously if your getting the same amount of exp for the monsters, the quest reward is going to ensure you gain more. Trying to manipulate the exp to fit a silly notion that everything should be equal isn't going to improve the actual gameplay. Quests are designed to immerse the story into the gameplay, give players unique diversions, and give players a boost in development. I could understand certain activities like slaying thru a dungeon and receiving a chest simular in reward to a quest, but the idea that you can just pick a heavy respawn location and repeat the same cycle over and over again, litterally generating actual grind, and get the same reward value is a bad idea, grind is bad element, and rewards should not be enhanced to fit that kind of gameplay.

[Calindor]

But when you are questing a good half, or even 75% of the time you are PvEing is running around to the quest areas and quest givers...the way I described is that time you spend runing around would equal the amount of EXP you get for turning in all the quests which also equals the XP you would get if you just stayed in the same spot killing mobs.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Calindor

But when you are questing a good half, or even 75% of the time you are PvEing is running around to the quest areas and quest givers...the way I described is that time you spend runing around would equal the amount of EXP you get for turning in all the quests which also equals the XP you would get if you just stayed in the same spot killing mobs.

Gameplay quality > friggin efficiency. Damnit.
Also, what game are you talking about? The developers should just try to balance it, that's what they're there for (also shorten the traveling times - not every game has to be L2 dude). I don't care whether I need a few weeks or even a month longer to get max lvl if I can do unique quests/mission-series with a actual plot, cutscenes, cool characters and a uber badguy (who's just been manipulated by the real bad guy). Don't get me wrong, I like grinding sometimes if it's complex and exciting enough, but I want more than that. Way more.

[Socrates]

Originally Posted by Endrance

Gameplay quality > friggin efficiency. Damnit.
Also, what game are you talking about? The developers should just try to balance it, that's what they're there for (also shorten the traveling times - not every game has to be L2 dude). I don't care whether I need a few weeks or even a month longer to get max lvl if I can do unique quests/mission-series with a actual plot, cutscenes, cool characters and a uber badguy (who's just been manipulated by the real bad guy). Don't get me wrong, I like grinding sometimes if it's complex and exciting enough, but I want more than that. Way more.

i agree with this post. quests should be part of a story with cut scenes like ffxi. they should be interesting and unique; not repetitive and boring like in WoW.

[BahamutKaiser]

I agree that quests should be as rewarding as grinding, whether the quest be repeated or not, whether the quest is mostly travelling or exploration. It doesn't have to be as rewarding in exp, but something relatively equivalent none the less. It is the idea that grinding should somehow equal quests that I don't understand, but quests are very circimstantial, where a quest that invovles simply slaying is likely to reward you for fighting and for quest completion, there really is not reasonable way to make basic grinding compete with that, and there doesn't need to be.

I'd rather have more quest with exploration, unique and difficult battles, special foes, and even deep plot and story elements + cut scenes. But even more than that, it would be great if simply milling around and randomly fighting battles introduced interesting battles, unique foes, and a drive to seek out new areas. Instead of grinding, one could do a basic exploration of special locations and seek out interesting foes and hidden treasures, it shouldn't be wrapped around grinding respawns and random drops, any system which replaces that is a godsent.

[Calindor]

For the most part I agree with you, however I'm all about efficiency, cause I get my kicks out of end game and trying to be on top (blah blah I dont care what youre gonna say about that). My point is that you shouldnt be forced to do one or the other, some games (WoW for example) have such a boosted quest EXP rate that you would probably go up about 5 times slower in exping if all you did was grind.

A very general example is say you spent 2 hours questing on various quest involving killing mobs, maybe exploration or escorting and you got 25 000 exp...well if someone else decided he just wants to join a party with friends and grind away at his favourite spot, he should also get something close to 25 000 exp...and with a system like that it will be up to the player to find the right combo of both to do in what areas and can be faster than doing 1 or the other...I think they should just not force you to do pure questing like WoW, or Pure grinding like L2/FFXI

[BahamutKaiser]

Na, I could understand if it was comparable, but equal or better reward for slaying randomly is silly. Quests should challenge you or immerse you into the story, making them better is a perogative. Grinding is circumstantially easier and sometimes faster just by situation already. You don't have to seek out NPCs, it may yield more in exp than an item reward quest, you may slay your way to a nice item or hidden reward without a quest, and many quests are limited. But when it comes to exp quests which involve slaying designated foes and a reward, questing should always be more effective. Questing has to have an incentive, and broken gain calculators designed to give grinding the same exp compared to a quest which involves slaying and an exp reward isn't acceptable, no matter what you want.

I don't agree with quests giving 5 or 10 times more reward than slaying, but if your going to take the easy spawn grind slaying approach and put in a fraction of the effort, well it's pretty obvious that you should get less reward. It would be better if there were more questless objectives which do not require a quest or revolve around them, but rather like a dungeon siege allowing you to pick certain dungeons to slay through, gain exp, and find treasure at the end for a reward comparable to questing, but mindless slaying should not be as rewarding, greater effort and difficulty deserves it, and not protecting that value will demoralize play and the completion of quests.

[Fleiva]

I dislike questing, why should I level slower than you who dislikes grinding?

[Terpsichore]

Originally Posted by KatzuyAion

I think Raiding should be not be over-rewarded. Because as you say its a huge timesink (atleast if it has anything to do with WoW's raiding) .

All types of players should be rewarded with the same quality rewards. so we don't have a community fighting against each other, defending their playstyles.

If from the beggining the rewards are similar for different types of playing = most of people happy.

Then remove raid, pvp, pve and quest gear, and and make a npc give it for free.

[BahamutKaiser]

Simply Fleiva, because it is easier. If you dislike certain types of quests or activites, that's fine, some people don't like PvP, or challenging activities, but it is already clear that the Abyss is an intense PvP region which grants greater rewards and faster growth because it is more difficult, and likewise, something that is more difficult or progressive for the game is privy to greater reward. There is a difference between equal and fair, fair is when harder work is rewarded with greater reward, equal is a communist influence where people assume that everyone should gain the same whether they choose to do more or less. Equallity is only fair in terms of opportunity, beyond that, if people choose less or dislike their opportunity than they can enjoy things their own way, that doesn't mean they deserve the same reward, they should accept their fair reward.

Quests are highly contextual, as depending on the activity, it may be easier or harder than simply slaying, the simple rule is that whichever is harder should reward more, but in the few cases where questing and slaying overlap, it is obvious that your going to gain greater reward for executing both, any manipulation of that simple and logical application is communistic oppresion just to suit an auterior interest. No system is perfect, so exceptions and hardships will exist, that doesn't mean that the basic rules of success should be denied to prevent them, doing so promotes a population of deliquency.

[Calindor]

Grinding can equally be challenging...You've played FFXI? I've heard so much about those high level grinding spots that require perfect parties and skill to stay alive...its the same with L2, you can goto the end game high level spots and die easily if one of the dd's messes up or you dont have a perfect party.

You should get more xp based on the skill level of what you're doing, but theres no reason qrinding or killing mobs cant be as difficult as any quest....They could even introduce a group system, where you take on a full camp of mobs in visual range, could be like yor party vs 25 mobs, and when you kill them you get a huge group bonus exp that would be worth a lot more than killing 25 individual mobs or something, but would be extremely challenging.

[Ithium]

Wow, alot of stuff to sift through here. Umm, i for one am not a huge fan of grinding or pvp. However, i understand the usefulness and desire others have to do these things, as such they should all be included in the game and should be given equal attention and energy by developers. EXP is the currency of the MMO World. (in lvl based games, as opposed to, say an economy based game such as EVE online) Which is why EXP is such a difficult area for Programers. Everyone wants their particular style of game play to be rewarding and who doesn't like to be the uber player that can stomp anything that comes their way.

However, without challenge, the game becomes more trivial than rewarding. If we could all start out as lvl 50 invincible god's what's the point in doing anything? We want risk to go with the reward. As such, the more that is risked, the more that should be rewarded. In quests, the risk of doing something wrong as well as dying begin to add up, however, it may be less life threatening than going at a large group of monsters in an all out battle. Playing against other players adds an entirely different play style as things are very unpredictable. It may be more difficult, or it may be much easier. I feel that exp as well as item rewards should fit the risk. I don't do a whole lot of raiding, but it is extremely difficult to put together and be successful at, so perhaps more EXP or better items would be in order. However, maybe certain risks could be added to quests to make them worth similar exp.

perhaps you can choose to do a "hard core" (diablo 2 reference, sorry) version of the quest you are on. It is worth more exp and better reward, but if you die or fail in some other way, you risk loosing exp, faction standing, gold, or other items. This way risk is rewarded, or you can do the "normal" version of the quest where all you risk is death and can redo the quest as many times as you would like, until you are successful.

Also, Perhaps your reward could be more suited to your play style. Grinding will yeild items that are better at fighting monsters, which would allow you to kill them faster and get more exp from them. Questing would give you rewards that gave bonuses to gold, exp and other quest rewards, and raiding would give rewards that would help in future raids.

and a quick side note, i would like to have more impactful quests. when i do a quest, i want to know that my efforts have mattered. killing a bunch of a certain kind of monster should help the town in some way. perhaps they remember your latest exploits and offer a celebration in your name and free stay at the inn. maybe saving that town leaders daughter from the viscious troll, you recieve a token from her that will grant you access to the town leader's home and any resoureces/aid he or she can give. Just an idea.

[Fleiva]

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser