Why not grind and questing?

[Soulstice]

Hi all!

Registered today. I have been following this game since its inception and had to reply to this thread!!

Grinding is not a bad thing when done correctly. But being a one time hardcore player and now that I have become a more casual player, I want to log into the game and feel like I am accomplishing something.

A good illustration of a bad grind is Lineage II. I loved the game, closed beta and open beta tested it and played it for a while. I had a level 55 spellhowler on bartz. Until I realized several things. First and foremost was the mindless grind. Yes it is mindless. To sit in the same spot for several weeks grinding out levels and then moving on to another spot is basically mindless. There is no accomplishment just do the time and stay alive and you will level. Any developer can do that.

Contrary to popular belief the hardcore players make up a small percentage of the playerbase and they will not keep a MMORPG afloat. Take a look at any of the current MMORPG's and most of them are populated with players that have real lives and these players will not sit in front of the computer all day and grind. There needs to be a balance. There needs to be a reason to go and kill this mob or that mob and that is where questing comes in.

Alot of folks hate WOW but, they are very seccessful in what they do. (I quit over a year ago) They try to cater to all different types of players. I hope Aion does as well. WOW pulled alot of the far eastern player base from Lineage II, so they did something right.

What really spoiled my time on Lineage 2 was bots, farmers, mindless grinding, and the lack of getting any useful loot. If Aion makes it like I have won a lottery to get an item or makes it darn near impossible to get anything, it will just be another failure. Pretty graphics do not make a successful game.

It is easy to say grinding is some type of accomplishment and in some instances it is! But some advice for those of you that have the time to put in the hours to grind. There will come a day when you will find a mate, have children, or get a job and then all this grinding will not be so much fun.

In the end I want an immersive game that allows me to accomplish something without having to spend 6 hours every night to get something done. I do not want to have to fight bots for a hunting spot, I do not want to have to win a lottery to get some decent gear (not top of the line gear), I want to be able to craft and not create another character to do it, I want some immersion and a reason to play the game other then mindless grinding.

Soulstice

[Decipher]

I mean I never do mind grinding but I heard they were trying to get rid of the whole "korean grind" thing...

[adrianus]

agree with Soulstice this is what i'm expecting from this game and really hope for no real money game market since we already pay2play . if this conditions r done .. this will be the game of my life.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

That's a blaitent lie, I know you didn't solo Bard, and most of the other professions arn't reasonably soloable. Possiblity perhaps, but than claiming to do it in a month is nonsense, not even if they made outragious changes and added exp to missions and quests would I believe that, and it still wouldn't account for the gameplay available before the Xbox release.

Ever tried to solo mob pets?

FFXI just like many games could have been improved, and they slowly got around to it, it was the outragious slow investment in the game that stop me from playing, because I knew they wouldn't fix the problems at an acceptable pace. It's pretty damn obvious you can progress quickly with a static, as if that is a readily available and natural option to anyone who chooses to play, obscurities in any form do not qualify as relavent examples. You may as well be assuming the overall human running ability based on pro athletic records and mythological accounts.

As relevant examples for what? And why were you supposed to progress quickly? Sure, FFXI was a little imbalanced at some point (for the most part the DD jobs) and six people were also a little too much from my point of view to get a decent PT running. But other than that, SE has done nothing wrong. Actually, it's the complete opposite - SE has done alot of things very right. The community wasn't so damn good because of the community. It was because of the game and how it was made related to the social part. The storylines were about ten times as good as anything I've ever seen in a MMORPG, the crafting system was the best one and all of the different features like Assault, Dynamis and all of the other stuff was something no other PvE based game could match with.

Perhaps you didn't understand what I ment when I said I was contacted with job offers to write gameplay guides for FFXI

No. I just didn't care.

I played all of the content either on my own characters or on my roommates to the date that I followed the game, and it wasn't acceptable. BSing about leveling some or any character at all up to 75 in a month given any amount of gameplay per day is nonsense too, you can take that same remark to an FFXI forum and get laughed out.

I guess not, but I can do that and send you the outcome.

But since you've resorted to falsification to support a point that isn't even relavent to the topic, I'm not even going to bother wasting my time on it, your next response will add you to my ignore list. Next time you think you can prove something, try using logical explainations instead of falsified nonsense which cannot be proven over an anonymous conversation.

Says the one who's made about one hundred FFXI-hate posts in topics where it wasn't relevant in in the first place. Yea, whatever.

P.S. I still have the half dozen emails and website which offered me the job writing guides, for writing detailed, accurate accounts of the gameplay and walkthrus.

Must be some pathetic people. Especially when I look at all of those slips in the grammar.

[BahamutKaiser]

LOL, grammar, as if we don't leverage machines for silly needs like those, there's a reason why professional writers also have editors... NM, Ignored. You welcome to go level all your classes to 75 solo in a feable attempt to prove it's doable, but you'll find you were actually making that ground static, and your spare time soloing in combination with the most effective exping method isn't a valid arguement. Goodbye.

[Ariel]

....Well....its going to be hard making quests/grinding have same output........but i never liked grinding

[Calindor]

Why would it be hard? All they have to do is make the exp/hour you get running around to quest NPC's and the quest zones, and the exp you get from quests the same as the exp you get/hour just grinding on mobs.

[Vent]

It is possible to have grinding and questing almost equally beneficial, but you can't get it perfect.

For example, a minor 'slip' in exp amount can make a certain quest or monster reward more EXP than the other if you spend, let's say, an hour on it. Since you gain sligtly more EXP in the long run. After many people passed that stage, they will notice the rest of the community about that fact. Everyone will follow the hint, leaving a whole area 'blank'.

I've faith in Aion though, I bet they'll make it the difference so small that you choose the way you like, even if it gives you that tiny amount less rewards.

Also, it's hard to predict how long a quest would take to complete. Another thing to consider. You can kill monsters non-stop, but you might need hours to find a certain NPC.

[Calindor]

If quests were anything like WoW, and it takes 3-4 months to level up, and the only way to exp is questing, I think I would need some drugs or atleast painkillers to get through it...Even if grinding was only 75% as efficient, I would still do it most of the time.

[Zalunaya]

First I must get one thing out of the way: I don't find fighting the game's <limited> AI fun...since after a while it's just me sitting here pressing the same skill buttons till I outlevel that monster type. I don't know how others can find it fun, either...it's just repetitive! Yes there's a bit of it in all the games out there, but really...there's a point where it can become too much...(Lineage II, EQ1 for some examples).

Yes you feel more 'rewarded' at the end, but after so long, it feels like *work*! I play games to have fun, relax, not work..there's enough of that in real life.

I have always preferred a game with a pretty good backstory and quests involved in it...enough so that you have things to do between level 1 and <max>....and I do not mean 'collect 5 wolf skins so I may make a cloak for Annie'...I mean solid story-line quests. It's a way to make the levelling feel less 'grind' and more...well, interactive. Really, it makes it less tedious, at least for me...though I know, after a few times through the quests they get repetitive(this happens with all games); at least it is something other than skill 1, 2, 3, 1, 1, heal, 2, 1, mob dies.

Yep, there's going to be disagreements with me...but I really do not see how the grind is fun. I've tried, believe me...it gets old pretty quickly.

[Calindor]

Both get old, but grinding lasts longer for me, its also what you make out of it, if you're sick of grinding solo, then dont be lazy, find a good aoe party and goto the harder areas. I have 10 times more fun doing anything in a full party rather than solo....in most grind based games (L2, FFXI) grinding is really waht you make it. You can goto the woods and smack wolves and get bored complaining, or you can make a full perfectly supported party and goto the hardest areas.

Sure if all quests were interesting and immersive there would be no problem, but I find it hard to believe there will be any mmo's coming out soon with a feature like that (although I've yet to do anything in TR that wasnt complete fun)...thats why a mix of whatever you want to do will be best...if you're sick of running around all the time looking an turning in quests, then just stop and grind, if you get sick of grinding, move to a new area and grab some quests, mix it up, get a bunch of quests in a small area, do them all then grind out for the rest of your level, etc...you just shouldnt be limited to one or the other.

This thread isnt about which one is better, or which one you should do, its about being able to do both.

[Zanion]

Originally Posted by Calindor

If quests were anything like WoW, and it takes 3-4 months to level up, and the only way to exp is questing, I think I would need some drugs or atleast painkillers to get through it...Even if grinding was only 75% as efficient, I would still do it most of the time.

you are right calindor ^_^


i enjoy grinding much more than questing...if quests are nice i would use them to exp but waling allday around places to deliver that or to kill certain mobs...it might be nice to explore the world but to exp i woudl prefer to be for a short period of time at this place and than move on to another area and stay there...it's almost the same you explore different parts of the world,too but in a slower but more comfortable rate.

[Raven.]

As long as it's not mindless grind or in any shape or form similar to Lineage 2 the game will do fine.

Capping is fine as long as content exists. Lack of content will kill a game quickly. Grind != content and that's why botting happens. We are not machines so entertain us!

[BubbleTrouble]

Originally Posted by Terpsichore

Options? Yes.

Same reward? No, raiding/party dungeons take alot more TIME than just grinding or questing.

While parties and raiding should be required to get the good stuff, putting the good stuff in the back of 4 hour long dungeons is absolutely retarded.

[Gatz]

Originally Posted by LethalGT

Complete solo'ers = Complete anti social loners/losers.

Sorry for the stereotype.

Felt somewhat offended there, but not 100%. Because if someone needed to kill the same boss as me or something like that ofc I'd team up.